I like my doctor, and do what he suggests. He has 40 years experience and went to medical school, I didn't. If I don't like him anymore, I will get another one, because I have health insurance through an employer. Most people have insurance through work or Medicare, and I am very happy others who had no insurance can now get it and see a doctor. I have never ordered my own tests, because I am not a licensed MD and don't have the authority. I am very happy with my medical care. We are fortunate others are willing to work hard and be doctors because from what I see, it is a very difficult job.
Medical. Issues
- Thread starter bbhero
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Originally Posted By: Alfred_B
Originally Posted By: philipp10
On a related note, did any of you see last Sunday's 60 minutes on cancer drugs. Seems your local Oncologist gets approximately a 6% kickback on each prescription he writes. So it's in their best interest to write the expensive ones. This just seems wrong. I feel if I am going to a doctor for advice, I would like advice based on my condition, not his pocketbook. I'll be asking lots of pointed questions of those sh*^ heads if I ever need theit advice.
Look up STARK laws. Kickbacks, or appearance of kickbacks, are illegal.
Well they must have gotten around it somehow, google Oncologists and drug kickbacks. It reality.
Originally Posted By: philipp10
On a related note, did any of you see last Sunday's 60 minutes on cancer drugs. Seems your local Oncologist gets approximately a 6% kickback on each prescription he writes. So it's in their best interest to write the expensive ones. This just seems wrong. I feel if I am going to a doctor for advice, I would like advice based on my condition, not his pocketbook. I'll be asking lots of pointed questions of those sh*^ heads if I ever need theit advice.
Look up STARK laws. Kickbacks, or appearance of kickbacks, are illegal.
Well they must have gotten around it somehow, google Oncologists and drug kickbacks. It reality.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: philipp10
Originally Posted By: Alfred_B
Originally Posted By: philipp10
On a related note, did any of you see last Sunday's 60 minutes on cancer drugs. Seems your local Oncologist gets approximately a 6% kickback on each prescription he writes. So it's in their best interest to write the expensive ones. This just seems wrong. I feel if I am going to a doctor for advice, I would like advice based on my condition, not his pocketbook. I'll be asking lots of pointed questions of those sh*^ heads if I ever need theit advice.
Look up STARK laws. Kickbacks, or appearance of kickbacks, are illegal.
Well they must have gotten around it somehow, google Oncologists and drug kickbacks. It reality.
Look closer at STARK laws, not that same thing.
Originally Posted By: Alfred_B
Originally Posted By: philipp10
On a related note, did any of you see last Sunday's 60 minutes on cancer drugs. Seems your local Oncologist gets approximately a 6% kickback on each prescription he writes. So it's in their best interest to write the expensive ones. This just seems wrong. I feel if I am going to a doctor for advice, I would like advice based on my condition, not his pocketbook. I'll be asking lots of pointed questions of those sh*^ heads if I ever need theit advice.
Look up STARK laws. Kickbacks, or appearance of kickbacks, are illegal.
Well they must have gotten around it somehow, google Oncologists and drug kickbacks. It reality.
Look closer at STARK laws, not that same thing.
@philipp10 I see what you mean. Technically, what the oncologists do is not a kickback. If they received a payment for prescribing, ti would be considered a kickback. What they do is buy low, sell high -- a perfectly acceptable practice in a capitalist system.
There are other ways of getting around the STARK laws by the pharmaceutical companies. That is, gifts, food, trips to conferences, etc. These are not directly connected to prescribing but they do influence the doctors' behavior. The same exact way as advertisements affect the patients' decisions.
In any case, these are all acceptable methods in the free market system we have. If you do not like it, work to change the system.
Good luck with that! The other approach would be universal care like the UK, or even Canada, but that's socialism.
There are other ways of getting around the STARK laws by the pharmaceutical companies. That is, gifts, food, trips to conferences, etc. These are not directly connected to prescribing but they do influence the doctors' behavior. The same exact way as advertisements affect the patients' decisions.
In any case, these are all acceptable methods in the free market system we have. If you do not like it, work to change the system.
Good luck with that! The other approach would be universal care like the UK, or even Canada, but that's socialism.
bbhero and Shannow,
i lost a dad because of hospital infection(s).
I'm with you on this one.
i lost a dad because of hospital infection(s).
I'm with you on this one.
I had a bladder infection develop, which is rare but possible
In a man my middle age, and it was mis diagnosed once as gall bladder colic. Days later fever and paaaaiin, I go to the ER. They take blood and in the meantime the ER doc says "were going to kick it's butt". So he sends me out at about 10pm with presecription for Ciprofloxin "CIPRO". I get it go home and take it. Vomit it up in 5minutes. Take another one, swallow my own gurgles because he said that I must take it. I lay down, half hour later I start feeling jittery and worried. Hal hour later in am panting and having intrusive thoughts and in the border of hallucinations. I call him at the ER. He says you must take it. I asked
If he identified the bacteria and he says "the blood was destroyed" no results. [censored]?! So I express my sincere worry about this reaction and weird feeling and thoughts. He says I must take it.
I hang up and something tells me call back almost immediately and now at about 1am ask for a pharmacist. I actually get one. First thing I say is that I have CIPRO questions. He immediately says, "I want you to know that Dr. C--- got to me before you called". I was like whoa. I explained my feelings and intrusive thoughts. He said that I must immediately stop the cipro and
GO the local ER (I live rural) and get another drug. He explained that CIPRO has a black box warning as it is called, from the food and drug administration. That it is now disallowed under 18 and that reactions are severe if they happen. He said it was used to treat anthrax poising in military and for our postal workers in Washington a few years ago when anthrax laiden letters were bein sent to govt officials. He said they discovered reactions with that larger sample of people and a lawsuit caused the black box warning.
So I go to the ER more locally. (I had been in a bigger community when the infection fever hit) I tell tem the story and they say "wow, almost nobody reacts to the Floxin family of drugs. I reiterated that I WAS. They gave me Bactrim. And said that it was to late to redo a bacteria test because the CIPRO would have killed to many by that time. So I go home and suffer aches, residual anxiety and intrusive panic thoughts.
I sleep at about 5 am. I wake up about 6 hours
Later and feel somewhat better, 6 hours later somewhat better. The Bactrim worked.
The CIPRO left me with some weird stuff, mental fog for about 2 months. I would be driving to the local McDonalds just 8 blocks away and suddenly have a thought and gasp in wonder, "Should I turn now?" Then I realized that I was in course just fine.
The intrusive thoughts were gone overnight. Short term memory improved some about 6 months later. But that comes and goes as far as forgetfulness with several short term tasks. The most upsetting thing is seeing all the stories if people online about their reactions. Very similar to mine. And those who kept taking it now have ruptured tendons and panic disorders. Sad. Turns out it goes in the brain and also joints and stops tendon ligament repair. So
You live unknowingly on what "you have left" for tendons for an
Amount of time and they snap. Achilles bein the first usually. It happens months or years later and is usually attributed to age mistakenly. Or they say "did you play volleball?" When the poor [censored] were just moving lawn.
Anyways, that's my story. Clearly disappointed on several levels with the thoroughness the lack of warning from the doc about this powerful family of Floxin drugs. And my short term memory is still having intermittent difficulty.
In a man my middle age, and it was mis diagnosed once as gall bladder colic. Days later fever and paaaaiin, I go to the ER. They take blood and in the meantime the ER doc says "were going to kick it's butt". So he sends me out at about 10pm with presecription for Ciprofloxin "CIPRO". I get it go home and take it. Vomit it up in 5minutes. Take another one, swallow my own gurgles because he said that I must take it. I lay down, half hour later I start feeling jittery and worried. Hal hour later in am panting and having intrusive thoughts and in the border of hallucinations. I call him at the ER. He says you must take it. I asked
If he identified the bacteria and he says "the blood was destroyed" no results. [censored]?! So I express my sincere worry about this reaction and weird feeling and thoughts. He says I must take it.
I hang up and something tells me call back almost immediately and now at about 1am ask for a pharmacist. I actually get one. First thing I say is that I have CIPRO questions. He immediately says, "I want you to know that Dr. C--- got to me before you called". I was like whoa. I explained my feelings and intrusive thoughts. He said that I must immediately stop the cipro and
GO the local ER (I live rural) and get another drug. He explained that CIPRO has a black box warning as it is called, from the food and drug administration. That it is now disallowed under 18 and that reactions are severe if they happen. He said it was used to treat anthrax poising in military and for our postal workers in Washington a few years ago when anthrax laiden letters were bein sent to govt officials. He said they discovered reactions with that larger sample of people and a lawsuit caused the black box warning.
So I go to the ER more locally. (I had been in a bigger community when the infection fever hit) I tell tem the story and they say "wow, almost nobody reacts to the Floxin family of drugs. I reiterated that I WAS. They gave me Bactrim. And said that it was to late to redo a bacteria test because the CIPRO would have killed to many by that time. So I go home and suffer aches, residual anxiety and intrusive panic thoughts.
I sleep at about 5 am. I wake up about 6 hours
Later and feel somewhat better, 6 hours later somewhat better. The Bactrim worked.
The CIPRO left me with some weird stuff, mental fog for about 2 months. I would be driving to the local McDonalds just 8 blocks away and suddenly have a thought and gasp in wonder, "Should I turn now?" Then I realized that I was in course just fine.
The intrusive thoughts were gone overnight. Short term memory improved some about 6 months later. But that comes and goes as far as forgetfulness with several short term tasks. The most upsetting thing is seeing all the stories if people online about their reactions. Very similar to mine. And those who kept taking it now have ruptured tendons and panic disorders. Sad. Turns out it goes in the brain and also joints and stops tendon ligament repair. So
You live unknowingly on what "you have left" for tendons for an
Amount of time and they snap. Achilles bein the first usually. It happens months or years later and is usually attributed to age mistakenly. Or they say "did you play volleball?" When the poor [censored] were just moving lawn.
Anyways, that's my story. Clearly disappointed on several levels with the thoroughness the lack of warning from the doc about this powerful family of Floxin drugs. And my short term memory is still having intermittent difficulty.
Originally Posted By: BubbaFL
Originally Posted By: used_0il
No worries in Canada mate, rich or poor, we are all equal.
The best of care won't bankrupt.
A healthy population is the happiest and most productive.
Healthcare in America is insanely expensive in part because we foot the bill for R&D For the rest of the world.
It'd be nice if y'all said "thanks" sometimes.
You don't say...
Originally Posted By: used_0il
No worries in Canada mate, rich or poor, we are all equal.
The best of care won't bankrupt.
A healthy population is the happiest and most productive.
Healthcare in America is insanely expensive in part because we foot the bill for R&D For the rest of the world.
It'd be nice if y'all said "thanks" sometimes.
You don't say...
Originally Posted By: Andy636
Originally Posted By: BubbaFL
Originally Posted By: used_0il
No worries in Canada mate, rich or poor, we are all equal.
The best of care won't bankrupt.
A healthy population is the happiest and most productive.
Healthcare in America is insanely expensive in part because we foot the bill for R&D For the rest of the world.
It'd be nice if y'all said "thanks" sometimes.
That's the justification presented that people find acceptable.
You don't say...
Originally Posted By: BubbaFL
Originally Posted By: used_0il
No worries in Canada mate, rich or poor, we are all equal.
The best of care won't bankrupt.
A healthy population is the happiest and most productive.
Healthcare in America is insanely expensive in part because we foot the bill for R&D For the rest of the world.
It'd be nice if y'all said "thanks" sometimes.
That's the justification presented that people find acceptable.
You don't say...
My doctor is 83 years old...been "practicing" since 1959. He still attends medical seminars, etc. and is very much up-to-date with new drugs, treatments, etc. (my brother and sister-in-law have been going to him for years). Quite honestly I rarely go to see him. I've had a few "physicals" and finally consented to a colonoscopy when I was 55 (5 years later than recommended...it was fine). On the rare occasion I do see him I honestly tell him that I don't see the point of routinely going to the doctor if there's nothing noticeably wrong (try as they might they can't seem to find anything wrong with me...normal blood values and blood pressure around 110/60). At 60 I have no health complaints (aside from a little age-related fatigue) and take no prescription meds (I do take a rather insane regimen of supplements...been doing that since I was 18). My vision (and my identical twin's as well) IMPROVED at 45 years old...haven't needed glasses since (wore them from 10 years old for mild nearsightedness). I know I've been fortunate as many of my friends and relatives have battled serious health issues. My advice...see the doctor if you develop a chronic issue and stay away if you don't.
Originally Posted By: Alfred_B
@philipp10 I see what you mean. Technically, what the oncologists do is not a kickback. If they received a payment for prescribing, ti would be considered a kickback. What they do is buy low, sell high -- a perfectly acceptable practice in a capitalist system.
There are other ways of getting around the STARK laws by the pharmaceutical companies. That is, gifts, food, trips to conferences, etc. These are not directly connected to prescribing but they do influence the doctors' behavior. The same exact way as advertisements affect the patients' decisions.
In any case, these are all acceptable methods in the free market system we have. If you do not like it, work to change the system.
Good luck with that! The other approach would be universal care like the UK, or even Canada, but that's socialism.
Except that in the buy low, sell high, the incentive is to sell only the most expensive drug. Its similar to seeing a financial planner. On a fee based guy, I am paying him a fee for sdvice, he has no incentive to churn my accounts. If I go with a commission based guy, the incentive to churn is there. I would think given this has to do with my health that I wouyld want my Dr. to have only my best interests in hand, not his pocketbook. It's just plain wrong, especially when you have the insurance company issues thrown in too.
@philipp10 I see what you mean. Technically, what the oncologists do is not a kickback. If they received a payment for prescribing, ti would be considered a kickback. What they do is buy low, sell high -- a perfectly acceptable practice in a capitalist system.
There are other ways of getting around the STARK laws by the pharmaceutical companies. That is, gifts, food, trips to conferences, etc. These are not directly connected to prescribing but they do influence the doctors' behavior. The same exact way as advertisements affect the patients' decisions.
In any case, these are all acceptable methods in the free market system we have. If you do not like it, work to change the system.
Good luck with that! The other approach would be universal care like the UK, or even Canada, but that's socialism.
Except that in the buy low, sell high, the incentive is to sell only the most expensive drug. Its similar to seeing a financial planner. On a fee based guy, I am paying him a fee for sdvice, he has no incentive to churn my accounts. If I go with a commission based guy, the incentive to churn is there. I would think given this has to do with my health that I wouyld want my Dr. to have only my best interests in hand, not his pocketbook. It's just plain wrong, especially when you have the insurance company issues thrown in too.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: philipp10
Originally Posted By: Alfred_B
@philipp10 I see what you mean. Technically, what the oncologists do is not a kickback. If they received a payment for prescribing, ti would be considered a kickback. What they do is buy low, sell high -- a perfectly acceptable practice in a capitalist system.
There are other ways of getting around the STARK laws by the pharmaceutical companies. That is, gifts, food, trips to conferences, etc. These are not directly connected to prescribing but they do influence the doctors' behavior. The same exact way as advertisements affect the patients' decisions.
In any case, these are all acceptable methods in the free market system we have. If you do not like it, work to change the system.
Good luck with that! The other approach would be universal care like the UK, or even Canada, but that's socialism.
Except that in the buy low, sell high, the incentive is to sell only the most expensive drug. Its similar to seeing a financial planner. On a fee based guy, I am paying him a fee for sdvice, he has no incentive to churn my accounts. If I go with a commission based guy, the incentive to churn is there. I would think given this has to do with my health that I wouyld want my Dr. to have only my best interests in hand, not his pocketbook. It's just plain wrong, especially when you have the insurance company issues thrown in too.
Something being wrong is irrelevant if that's what the society wants.
It's called a "fee-for-service" model where the medical providers are incentivized to perform as much of medical services as necessary. There are other models out there that Obamacare is working to implement that were famously labeled as "death panels" where the medical providers are incentivized to manage population health. Essentially, the next fad in the healthcare field is prevention, rather than treatment.
But there is no systemic approach to it (our health care costs are as much of a function of medicine as our food choices, fitness, physical and financial security) so I do not see much of an improvement in the next couple of decades. We will succeed in lowering the medical cost inflation rate but we will never reach the healthcare cost versus GDP ratios of our peer G7 countries.
Originally Posted By: Alfred_B
@philipp10 I see what you mean. Technically, what the oncologists do is not a kickback. If they received a payment for prescribing, ti would be considered a kickback. What they do is buy low, sell high -- a perfectly acceptable practice in a capitalist system.
There are other ways of getting around the STARK laws by the pharmaceutical companies. That is, gifts, food, trips to conferences, etc. These are not directly connected to prescribing but they do influence the doctors' behavior. The same exact way as advertisements affect the patients' decisions.
In any case, these are all acceptable methods in the free market system we have. If you do not like it, work to change the system.
Good luck with that! The other approach would be universal care like the UK, or even Canada, but that's socialism.
Except that in the buy low, sell high, the incentive is to sell only the most expensive drug. Its similar to seeing a financial planner. On a fee based guy, I am paying him a fee for sdvice, he has no incentive to churn my accounts. If I go with a commission based guy, the incentive to churn is there. I would think given this has to do with my health that I wouyld want my Dr. to have only my best interests in hand, not his pocketbook. It's just plain wrong, especially when you have the insurance company issues thrown in too.
Something being wrong is irrelevant if that's what the society wants.
It's called a "fee-for-service" model where the medical providers are incentivized to perform as much of medical services as necessary. There are other models out there that Obamacare is working to implement that were famously labeled as "death panels" where the medical providers are incentivized to manage population health. Essentially, the next fad in the healthcare field is prevention, rather than treatment.
But there is no systemic approach to it (our health care costs are as much of a function of medicine as our food choices, fitness, physical and financial security) so I do not see much of an improvement in the next couple of decades. We will succeed in lowering the medical cost inflation rate but we will never reach the healthcare cost versus GDP ratios of our peer G7 countries.
Not sure what "death panels" you are referring to, sounds like a Teabagger term made up to slam Obamacare.
They may not be called "death panels" but I'll tell you, they sure are quick nowdays to recommend hospice. It's overall probably a good thing as it seems useless to try and extend someones life for an extra month or two at a cost of hundreds of thousands of dollars.
They may not be called "death panels" but I'll tell you, they sure are quick nowdays to recommend hospice. It's overall probably a good thing as it seems useless to try and extend someones life for an extra month or two at a cost of hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Thank you bbhero for bringing up this important topic.
One needs to be their own healthcare advocate, allowing the doctors to do their jobs, while at the same time educating yourself and keeping an eye on things.
My wife nearly died from the after effects of a car accident. Your advice is much appreciated and spot on.
One needs to be their own healthcare advocate, allowing the doctors to do their jobs, while at the same time educating yourself and keeping an eye on things.
My wife nearly died from the after effects of a car accident. Your advice is much appreciated and spot on.
Thank you very much
People... That's ALL of y'all. That's why I wrote this. I'm not suggesting in no way shape form or fashion that medical care is horrible here in the US.
All I was trying to say was to.. Ask questions .. If something seems wrong or inappropriate, ask questions. Or if it seems serious enough... STOP. TELL these people ENOUGH. And take your loved one somewhere else.
There are rare chances of circumstances ever getting to this point... But DO what you need to do if you feel something is WAY off.
People... That's ALL of y'all. That's why I wrote this. I'm not suggesting in no way shape form or fashion that medical care is horrible here in the US.
All I was trying to say was to.. Ask questions .. If something seems wrong or inappropriate, ask questions. Or if it seems serious enough... STOP. TELL these people ENOUGH. And take your loved one somewhere else.
There are rare chances of circumstances ever getting to this point... But DO what you need to do if you feel something is WAY off.
Originally Posted By: Alfred_B
Originally Posted By: edwardh1
the experts advise us that we have enough money to rebuild ferrin countries, but not enough for medical care for Mericans.
You mean "invade, bomb, destroy and kill hundreds of thousands innocent people?"
We rebuild it after it is bombed.
Originally Posted By: edwardh1
the experts advise us that we have enough money to rebuild ferrin countries, but not enough for medical care for Mericans.
You mean "invade, bomb, destroy and kill hundreds of thousands innocent people?"
We rebuild it after it is bombed.
Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: Alfred_B
Originally Posted By: edwardh1
the experts advise us that we have enough money to rebuild ferrin countries, but not enough for medical care for Mericans.
You mean "invade, bomb, destroy and kill hundreds of thousands innocent people?"
We rebuild it after it is bombed.
LOL. We spend the money but we do not rebuild anything.
Originally Posted By: Alfred_B
Originally Posted By: edwardh1
the experts advise us that we have enough money to rebuild ferrin countries, but not enough for medical care for Mericans.
You mean "invade, bomb, destroy and kill hundreds of thousands innocent people?"
We rebuild it after it is bombed.
LOL. We spend the money but we do not rebuild anything.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
bbhero,
my Dad got a staph infection in his elbow joint from a red cross blood donation, and after it all turned to whoop, was treated by Professor Collignon our best infectious disease guy.
The medical profession hate him, as he's telling people to opt for day surgery wherever possible, as they are far less likely to get a dangerous infection at home than in a hospital.
He had the gall to pay university students to pose as janitors, and record which doctors didn't wash their hands between patients...then tracked their records re post-operative infection. (hundreds of years ago it was worked out that you don't carve cadavers then deliver a baby without washing your hands, but doctors still spread bacteria through carelessness).
He's called for carpet to be banned in hospitals...hospitals want people to feel like it's a motel. Linoleum on the floor, and 6 inches up the wall.
He's pro moving new mothers and their babies out of hospitals and INTO hotel rooms to keep them away from hospital germs (and as his detractors point out, into rooms cleaned by minimum wagers).
He's anti antibactierial sprays in the home (reasoning that if you don't clean the whole surface, just a wipe over, there are enviornments for resistance to grow), and against antibiotics in animal feeds.
(He's pro sulfa drugs, to be the first line of defence for minor issues, and save the antibiotics for serious stuff)
They (the establishment) really do dislike him.
Sounds like my kind of guy.
bbhero,
my Dad got a staph infection in his elbow joint from a red cross blood donation, and after it all turned to whoop, was treated by Professor Collignon our best infectious disease guy.
The medical profession hate him, as he's telling people to opt for day surgery wherever possible, as they are far less likely to get a dangerous infection at home than in a hospital.
He had the gall to pay university students to pose as janitors, and record which doctors didn't wash their hands between patients...then tracked their records re post-operative infection. (hundreds of years ago it was worked out that you don't carve cadavers then deliver a baby without washing your hands, but doctors still spread bacteria through carelessness).
He's called for carpet to be banned in hospitals...hospitals want people to feel like it's a motel. Linoleum on the floor, and 6 inches up the wall.
He's pro moving new mothers and their babies out of hospitals and INTO hotel rooms to keep them away from hospital germs (and as his detractors point out, into rooms cleaned by minimum wagers).
He's anti antibactierial sprays in the home (reasoning that if you don't clean the whole surface, just a wipe over, there are enviornments for resistance to grow), and against antibiotics in animal feeds.
(He's pro sulfa drugs, to be the first line of defence for minor issues, and save the antibiotics for serious stuff)
They (the establishment) really do dislike him.
Sounds like my kind of guy.
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