Mixed gas in small 4 cycle engines?

Status
Not open for further replies.

DMZ

Joined
Jun 21, 2013
Messages
22
Location
E. Oregon
I was talking to a friend and whining about ethanol gas in small engines.

He told me a trick. He said to add a small amount of marine 2 cycle oil to my mower/tiller gas and see if they do not start easier and run better.

I did not have any marine spec'd 2 stroke oil, but I did have a small bottle (2.8oz) of Stihl Ultra HP 50:1 mix oil. I added a few cap fulls (~2 tsp) to my gallon of yard machine gas.

It seemed to work. My mower starts like it did pre-ethanol mandate. My tiller would only run well partially choked. It ran fine again, un choked. I checked the plugs. Looked normal. Ummmm?

Any similar experience running mixed gas in 4 strokes?
 
Lots of people report quicker and smoother start-up when using 2-cycle as a UCL, or a UCL in general....one of the advantages of it.
 
Many people run the supposedly ashless synthetic 2-cycle oil in the brand new 4 stroke cars and claim it cools the fuel pump and cleans injectors and lubes the upper cylinder. I cant recall the ration per gallon's gallon they use though. I read a lot on it once but was too chicken to put it into my '13 Corolla.
 
That is why I really started this thread. I am considering putting some into my Yaris to see if I can get back the 2-3 mpg I lost to ethanol gas.
 
I can't say I've ever had any issue running ethanol gasoline without additives in any of my OPE. I have seen a number of tubing and seal leaks which I think may be attributable to the ethanol, but certainly nothing with respect to starting even after sitting for the winter.

all that said two cycle oil does apparently include some fuel stabilizer which would help against any ethanol issues, and using that kind of oil in gasoline engines is common even for cars. check the fuel additive section.
 
I have burned lots of 2 stroke gas in my 4 strokes, but it was just to use it up.
Do you not have any ethanol free gas available? I run everything on 91 or 93 octane ethanol free, just so I don't have to keep track of 4 types of gas in the shed. My OPE fuel bill including the little snowmobiles and dirt bike is probably still less the $200/year.
 
If non-ethanol gasoline is available in your area, I'd buy it for small engines.
 
Originally Posted By: totegoat
If non-ethanol gasoline is available in your area, I'd buy it for small engines.


It is, but I have to get it on the Reservation which is a ways to go. Premium only with a very premium price.

So I was seeking "hacks" as alternatives.
 
Originally Posted By: Rand
Usually about 1oz/5gallon max

You want a tcw3 oil for various reasons.


Which ashless brands would be suitable to use in this fashion?
 
I use an ounce of seafoam per gallon in all ope. It keeps engines clean and lubricated. I make my own with diesel napatha and 99% alcohol.
 
I believe anything labeled TC-W3 should be ashless and work just the same. I've used Supertech for this, not positive I noticed any difference though for better or worse. 1 ounce to 5 gallons seems to be the consensus.

I believe this was one of the original posts for the use of TC-W3 in 4 stroke engines: http://www.ls1.com/forums/f48/been-testing-oil-91206/

There are lots of other posts on bitog regarding its use though.
 
Marine 2 stroke is meant for boat engines that are water cooled and run at 150 degrees. Outdoor power equipment is air cooled and runs at 200-250 degrees. Boat oil is not formulated properly for the higher temperature of outdoor power equipment.

The proper oil for air-cooled engines is ISO-L-EGD or Jaso FD, not TC-W3. Proper ratio in a 4 stroke will be in the neighborhood of 400:1.

Just run gas and fuel stabilizer. 2 stroke oil is a waste of money in a 4 stroke engine.
 
Ethanol seems to be doing a lot of engine in.So the idea is to help lube the engine.A small amount would be ok for lawn engines or chain saw engines. Maybe a higher quality gas like that sold in chain saw stores or race gas. Look through the forums I remember reading about this stuff before.
 
Originally Posted By: ron17571
Ethanol seems to be doing a lot of engine in. So the idea is to help lube the engine. A small amount would be ok for lawn engines or chain saw engines. Maybe a higher quality gas like that sold in chain saw stores or race gas. Look through the forums I remember reading about this stuff before.


I keep seeing posts like this yet I live in an EPA non-attainment area, and all we can get is E10. I use it in all my vehicles and OPE and see no detrimental results whatsoever that I can attribute to the fuel. Both Toyotas have used it since new as have my 12 year old garden tractor, weed trimmer and my 23 year old lawnmower. People attribute all sorts of problems to the mixture but how do you know it's the problem?

And how does the engine need help with lubing? What is not being lubed now that needs it?
 
Originally Posted By: ron17571
Ethanol seems to be doing a lot of engine in.

Eighty cent fuel systems seem to be doing a lot of fuel systems in. You mean to tell me that no OPE engine manufacturer can build an engine and fuel system to tolerate E10, even though E10 has been around for decades? I'm not saying there are no concerns with ethanol whatsoever, but the same goes for any fuel. Materials must be compatible. Take a look at a 30 or 40 year old B&S engine's fuel system versus a modern one, and see how things have gotten worse for durability.

Basically, people want OPE at throwaway prices, so they get throwaway quality.
 
I buy E0 for my two smoke dirt bike and mix it between 32:1 and 50:1 depending upon intended use. Extra or leftover gas goes into four stroke mower and pressure washer. No problems.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
I keep seeing posts like this yet I live in an EPA non-attainment area, and all we can get is E10. I use it in all my vehicles and OPE and see no detrimental results whatsoever that I can attribute to the fuel. Both Toyotas have used it since new as have my 12 year old garden tractor, weed trimmer and my 23 year old lawnmower. People attribute all sorts of problems to the mixture but how do you know it's the problem?


E10 has been here discussed before. If you run your equipment often, take good care of it, and get quality E10, you may never have problems with it.

If you have older OPE with older carb gasket and fuel line material, those components may degrade faster.

Ethanol is hygroscopic and once it absorbs moisture, separates out from the gasoline. If this happens in the fuel bowl of a Briggs where the fuel pickup is, you'll get a crudded up carb.

On 2-strokes, running stratified E10+condensation can cause stumbling, poor power, momentary lean burns, etc.

Testing done on pump gas has shown that lower use stations can dispense wildly variable amounts of ethanol. Running E30 in a 2-stroke can kill it due to lean burn conditions. It just doesn't have the MAP, O2, computer, etc. to compensate like a modern car engine.

I've already shared about my low-use pickup truck. With E10 sitting a week or two, especially during rainy and/or humid weather, it would run like [censored] for the first few minutes, even stall. Once I started using E0 in it, I've had zero problems with startup or stumbling during warmup.

In my high use vehicles and mid-Summer lawn tractor use, I run E10 with zero problems. I run E0 for the last lawn tractor tank of Fall and have zero problems starting up in the Spring.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top