Older Macbook Pro weirdness

[OVERKILL]

This unfortunately has a bit of a preamble:

My ThinkPad T420S began acting funny the other day; one of the Windows 10 updates failed and then it had trouble booting, was freezing on boot...etc. I figured the old Seagate 320GB drive was catching the dead so I ordered a Kingston V300 480GB SSD for it and installed it yesterday. After having some exciting fun with installation media and my DVD-RW drive I eventually used an external USB drive and got Windows 7 reinstalled. All went well until I copied my old data back, which involved a lot of I/O and after moving over a large chunk of data, it froze on the following reboot. Powered it off, back on, it came back up and worked fine. Next restart, same deal, same process, but taking two shots this time, and it came back up. And the boot was taking a lot longer at the windows logo.

Anyway, this carried on and eventually it froze at the login screen looping the audio. Since the boot problem was consistent across two drives I doubted it was the SSD. And since the system was fine once it was booted, this also reinforced that. I did manage to get one BSOD about a bad driver, but that only happened once. Updating various drivers did nothing, had the latest RST installed..etc. So, I'm thinking the controller on the board is taking a dive and I have some work I'm on the road for starting tomorrow. Great timing

Only spare rig I have kicking around is a mid-2010 Macbook Pro 15" with an i5. I figure that'd be a great candidate for the SSD and without any further research I figured I'd chuck my 16GB of DDR3 from the ThinkPad into the Macbook thinking that'd work.

Nope.

Well, kinda. It would turn on. It would post properly. You could even get it going about halfway through the installation of Yosemite and then it would reboot. Tried one stick, mixing one with one of the original sticks....etc. Did nothing to alleviate the issue. Installed the original 2GB sticks (4GB total) and it loaded Yosemite without issue.

Migrated all my data over, SSD working like a boss, which unfortunately seems to point to the ThinkPad pooping the bed on the I/O side. I will add that in diagnosing the ThinkPad I also ran Memtest86+ on it and found no problems, the RAM checks out fine. I also had some other known-good sticks which would not work in the Macbook.

So, I checked Google and found some interesting things:

1. Supposedly only the 13" version of the 2010 MBP can support up to 16GB of RAM, the 15 should not even post.
2. The 15" version only "officially" supports 8GB of RAM.
3. The issue is the speed of the RAM.

Apparently the SPD info is adhered to for whatever reason and unlike on a PC where normally the lowest common denominator in the SPD chain is the one that sets the timing for the lot, in the case of the MBP, the 1600Mhz DDR3 I put in (and the 1333 sticks I also tried) are not reliable and cause kernel panics even when mixed with one of the OEM 1066 sticks because the chipset tries to run them at 1600Mhz and poops the bed.

There have been folks that reprogrammed the SPD on the sticks to 1066 and gained stability but this was on the 13" MBP, not the 15 that I have in my possession. But then mine shouldn't have posted period, LOL!

So, I'm waffling on whether to order a Kingston or Crucial matched set of 8GB 1066Mhz DIMM's for it and see if it is stable or just get the "correct" 8GB kit. It would seem that the capacity wasn't the issue, as it exhibited the same symptoms even with 4GB of the faster RAM in it which is causing me to lean ever so slightly in the 16GB kit's direction.

Anybody else play around with this? I'm extremely surprised at the SPD behaviour, as it is just an Intel chipset (5-series)

 

[mattwithcats]

Look your computer / laptop up at Data Memory Systems.

They will tell you the OEM configuration, the max ram possible, and type of memory you need.

http://www.datamemorysystems.com/apple-memory/

 

[sleddriver]

Interesting tale there OK. Mixed speeds usually cause accidents. Imagine coming up behind some idiot going 45mph in the left lane on a major freeway, frantically waving one hand, with the other holding her phone to her ear, while she's screaming at it...so which hand is on the steering wheel???

That's an auto-related version of a kernal panic....

Bad juju.

Low delta-V is key to consistantcy and harmony!

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: sleddriver
Interesting tale there OK. Mixed speeds usually cause accidents. Imagine coming up behind some idiot going 45mph in the left lane on a major freeway, frantically waving one hand, with the other holding her phone to her ear, while she's screaming at it...so which hand is on the steering wheel???

That's an auto-related version of a kernal panic....

Bad juju.

Low delta-V is key to consistantcy and harmony!

In my experience mixing the speeds, the faster stick will just be de-rated to run the same speed as the slowest stick in the group. However, the mixing wasn't the issue here, it was just a troubleshooting step (to see if I could get the 1600Mhz stick to de-rate by pairing it with a 1066Mhz stick) as even with a single or pair of 1600Mhz sticks in it, it was unstable. It simply appears to not be able to properly cope with RAM faster than the 1066Mhz it shipped with.

Which is why I made the thread really, to find out if anybody else had accidentally discovered this speed/FSB/SPD limit and whether anybody else had knowingly embarked upon trying more memory than what Apple spec's as the limit in an MBP as I am endeavouring to do here.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: mattwithcats
Look your computer / laptop up at Data Memory Systems.

They will tell you the OEM configuration, the max ram possible, and type of memory you need.

http://www.datamemorysystems.com/apple-memory/


Matt:

As noted in the OP, I know what the limit on speed and capacity are from Apple, this thread is about experimenting with capacities above and beyond that and people who have perhaps played around with that

The 13" MBP was originally spec'd for 8GB max too however an EFI update was pushed out to them that had the side effect of enabling 16GB to be workable. Apple did not (and I don't know if they have still) update the official limit to 16GB for this product despite it working.

Supposedly, trying 16GB in the 15" shouldn't even result in a POST. However, not only did mine post, but I was very close to being able to successfully install Yosemite. My hope is that by using modules of the same speed as OEM, 1066Mhz, I may be able to use 16GB in this notebook despite the official 8GB ceiling

Another option is to re-write the SPD on my 8GB sticks so that they identify as 1066Mhz. I may try that before ordering more RAM depending on how ambitious I feel when I am back at the office.

If none of that works I can at least upgrade this to 8GB from the 4GB that are in it currently (I'm posting this from the MBP). The SSD really woke it up but you can still feel the memory limitation.

 

[sleddriver]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: sleddriver
Interesting tale there OK. Mixed speeds usually cause accidents. Imagine coming up behind some idiot going 45mph in the left lane on a major freeway, frantically waving one hand, with the other holding her phone to her ear, while she's screaming at it...so which hand is on the steering wheel???

That's an auto-related version of a kernal panic....

Bad juju.

Low delta-V is key to consistantcy and harmony!

In my experience mixing the speeds, the faster stick will just be de-rated to run the same speed as the slowest stick in the group. However, the mixing wasn't the issue here, it was just a troubleshooting step (to see if I could get the 1600Mhz stick to de-rate by pairing it with a 1066Mhz stick) as even with a single or pair of 1600Mhz sticks in it, it was unstable. It simply appears to not be able to properly cope with RAM faster than the 1066Mhz it shipped with.

Which is why I made the thread really, to find out if anybody else had accidentally discovered this speed/FSB/SPD limit and whether anybody else had knowingly embarked upon trying more memory than what Apple spec's as the limit in an MBP as I am endeavouring to do here.

Glad you figured it out. Apple HW can be finicky at times. I have an older 07 BMB I was given with a Toes Up HD. I got her running again, but the battery is Tango Uniform.

To further add to my story...that woman wasn't going to budge past 45mph, despite all the cars behind her. Just not going to do it.

Thanks for allowing me to inject a bit of auto-humour re: a frustrating confuser problem.

 

[OVERKILL]

No problem

I won't be able to experiment for at least 10 days so I'm interested in hearing from others who have perhaps some experience with this.

 

[JMJNet]

There is a long thread about this in the Apple forum.

The 16GB never work no matter of the speed matching or not.
I have tried it.

Yes, it will work with 2010 13" MBP but not 15" MBP.

IIRC, you can put a 4GB and 8GB to get to 12GB but you can experiment with what you have already.

 

[Johnny2Bad]

Double Post

 

[Johnny2Bad]

First step in any Mac hardware question is to identify the hardware, then post it if you have questions.

To locate the model identifier in software, select "About This Mac" under the Apple Menu on your computer and click the "More Info..." button. If the MacBook Pro is running OS X 10.7 "Lion" or later, you will need to click the "System Report" button after clicking "More Info..." as well.

Other World Computing in my experience has solid, reliable upgrade advice (and products). They say 2x 4GB (8 GB total) is the limit.

8GB is a decent amount of RAM for any MacOS including Mavericks. Note that the System reserves an amount of VRAM equal to installed memory, so you will see sluggishness if free space on the HDD approaches 8GB.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
First step in any Mac hardware question is to identify the hardware, then post it if you have questions.

To locate the model identifier in software, select "About This Mac" under the Apple Menu on your computer and click the "More Info..." button. If the MacBook Pro is running OS X 10.7 "Lion" or later, you will need to click the "System Report" button after clicking "More Info..." as well.

Other World Computing in my experience has solid, reliable upgrade advice (and products). They say 2x 4GB (8 GB total) is the limit.

8GB is a decent amount of RAM for any MacOS including Mavericks. Note that the System reserves an amount of VRAM equal to installed memory, so you will see sluggishness if free space on the HDD approaches 8GB.


As I already noted, it is an early 2010 MPB 15" notebook (6.2) running Yosemite. It also has a 480GB SSD so the free space sluggishness issue isn't really relevant (it also has a ton of free space).

I know what OWC states (and Apple) my question was whether anybody had successfully tried more than the 8GB 1066Mhz limit that is stated.

Now I know what the guys who ask about people trying other oils in their cars feel like when everybody tells them to run what it says in the manual

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: JMJNet
There is a long thread about this in the Apple forum.

The 16GB never work no matter of the speed matching or not.
I have tried it.

Yes, it will work with 2010 13" MBP but not 15" MBP.

IIRC, you can put a 4GB and 8GB to get to 12GB but you can experiment with what you have already.


Thanks! And yes, that's what I'd read. But most of the guys who put in 16GB, IIRC, didn't get POST, that's what threw me. I not only passed POST but was able to mostly install Yosemite with the 16GB in it.

I think I'll try to drop the speed down and see what happens "for the heck of it". I already own the two 8GB sticks, so it isn't like I am out anything trying.

 

[OVERKILL]

Update:

I may abandon this endeavour as I've just decided to purchase a new MBP 15" as a replacement for my ThinkPad that pooped the bed. This old MBP will be headed back to the duty it was performing before, which certainly doesn't require 16GB of RAM.