Changing tire balance with temperature

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Can that happen? My new contri control contacts are smooth as oil in the morning when the temps are in the 70's. In the afternoon, when the temp is 100*, I have a vibration in the steering wheel that feels like an out of balance tire. Tires are just 10 days old. Went back to DT this morning and they rebalanced them. This afternoon, temp was 93*, vibration was actually worse and felt like it was both front tires. I've never experienced anything like this before. Anyone ever experienced anything like this?

Van is a 2013 Dodge Grand Caravan with currently 47k miles on it.
 
I am no expert--Buuut, it sounds to me more like there is something going wrong with the tires. Were they road force balanced?
 
When temperature changes from 70 to 100 tire pressure is up 3 PSI, the tires face afternoon sun have much higher temperature up to 20-30 higher, therefore those tires can have as much as 5-6 PSI above morning pressure before driving.

I would check pressure in the morning and don't have it more than placard, then afternoon it will be no more than 2-3 PSI above placard.
 
The tire's balance will not change with temperature.

However, the tire's uniformity might. This includes tire pressure changes due to temperature mentioned above.

I suggest exchanging the tires on the same side, front to back, and see if anything changes.
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
When temperature changes from 70 to 100 tire pressure is up 3 PSI, the tires face afternoon sun have much higher temperature up to 20-30 higher, therefore those tires can have as much as 5-6 PSI above morning pressure before driving.

I would check pressure in the morning and don't have it more than placard, then afternoon it will be no more than 2-3 PSI above placard.

Yes! I have a good gauge. Thanks. Good place to start.

I was thinking rotate tires front to back.
 
Originally Posted By: Rand
Are you sure its not the road?, also have them road force balanced.

Same road, same day, 8:05 AM, 74f. 2:30PM, 93f . Yesterday was 100f. The more I think about it, it may be pressure related.
 
Tires are a funny thing, the crown of the road, new tires, and actual road surface can definitely play tricks on ones mind, I have found that once they are given a chance to break in, settle, or whatever you wana call it, many issues disappear.
 
If your strut oil thins out a tire or CV shaft imbalance could set up a resonant frequency that then makes it to the chassis. Though your mileage is a little low for this to be a thing.
 
I wonder if we are talking about flatspots - where the tire takes a temporary set. Those can be related to temperature.

Could we also be talking about the difference between routes? In the morning going and in the evening returning, but it is the reverse.
 
Originally Posted By: knerml
The tire's balance will not change with temperature

My personal experience shows otherwise. My current P7 + has a high speed vibration if I balance them cold. I find I needed to drive on them to warm them sufficiently and then balance them. The difference is .5 to .75 oz per tire at the most, and it's only on one plane(inner our outer)

They are good tires but they also have terrible flat-spotting even at summer temps. I'm glad I run winter tires. It takes 2-3 miles for the tires to "round out" again. This is one reason I won't buy them again...and Pirelli is now China-owned.

The road force variation is less than 7 pounds each because they were match-mounted. Rim runout is 0.006", 0.007" and two at 0.009" measured at the bead-seat.
 
Originally Posted By: LotI
Originally Posted By: knerml
The tire's balance will not change with temperature

My personal experience shows otherwise. My current P7 + has a high speed vibration if I balance them cold. I find I needed to drive on them to warm them sufficiently and then balance them. The difference is .5 to .75 oz per tire at the most, and it's only on one plane(inner our outer)

They are good tires but they also have terrible flat-spotting even at summer temps. I'm glad I run winter tires. It takes 2-3 miles for the tires to "round out" again. This is one reason I won't buy them again...and Pirelli is now China-owned.

The road force variation is less than 7 pounds each because they were match-mounted. Rim runout is 0.006", 0.007" and two at 0.009" measured at the bead-seat.

It really should not make any difference tire pressure(temp goes hand in hand). That's like saying balancing a tire with 5psi will balance difference than the same tire with 60psi. You're balancing the weight of the tire and its imperfection in build not how much air is inside of it.
 
Originally Posted By: LotI
Originally Posted By: knerml
The tire's balance will not change with temperature

My personal experience shows otherwise. My current P7 + has a high speed vibration if I balance them cold. I find I needed to drive on them to warm them sufficiently and then balance them. The difference is .5 to .75 oz per tire at the most, and it's only on one plane(inner our outer)

They are good tires but they also have terrible flat-spotting even at summer temps. I'm glad I run winter tires. It takes 2-3 miles for the tires to "round out" again. This is one reason I won't buy them again...and Pirelli is now China-owned.

The road force variation is less than 7 pounds each because they were match-mounted. Rim runout is 0.006", 0.007" and two at 0.009" measured at the bead-seat.


This makes no sense whatsoever. A tire and rim is weighted to balance them. The amount of air pressure is irrelevant up to a certain point.
If the tire is balanced and severely under inflated then yes it'll be tough to prperly balance however a few pounds makes absolutely no difference in the actual balance of the tire and rim.
 
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: LotI
Originally Posted By: knerml
The tire's balance will not change with temperature

My personal experience shows otherwise. My current P7 + has a high speed vibration if I balance them cold. I find I needed to drive on them to warm them sufficiently and then balance them. The difference is .5 to .75 oz per tire at the most, and it's only on one plane(inner our outer)

They are good tires but they also have terrible flat-spotting even at summer temps. I'm glad I run winter tires. It takes 2-3 miles for the tires to "round out" again. This is one reason I won't buy them again...and Pirelli is now China-owned.

The road force variation is less than 7 pounds each because they were match-mounted. Rim runout is 0.006", 0.007" and two at 0.009" measured at the bead-seat.


This makes no sense whatsoever. A tire and rim is weighted to balance them. The amount of air pressure is irrelevant up to a certain point.
If the tire is balanced and severely under inflated then yes it'll be tough to prperly balance however a few pounds makes absolutely no difference in the actual balance of the tire and rim.


+1
 
We are presently living in an extended stay hotel while our house is being repaired. We go to the house every day to feed the cats, do yard work and do small repairs and upgrades to the house, not covered by insurance. We drive the same route every day. 12.1 miles, about 15 minutes. we go by way of I-485 between exit 33 and exit 39. It's just the easiest way to go. Today I started recording tire pressures, looking for some clue to what I've seen. This morning is was 78* out, coming back it was 101*. The required pressure is 36psi. I recorded the pressures today back in the hotel parking lot at 3pm of RF 37 1/2, LF 38, LR 37 1/2, RR 38. +1 1/2 and + 2 psi. Very normal looking numbers.

So, There was NO tire shake today, just a normal smooth run. I'm perplexed. The tires have ~200 miles on them. Do tires have to break in?

I will continue recording data for a time, until I'm satisfied that there is no problem.
 
First, all tires develop flatspots when they are at rest. Most of the time those flat spots are small enough that you don't notice them - plus operating the tire tends to work then out.

But if you have significant differences in temperature, the elevated temps tend to make the flat spot worse.

What could also be occurring is that some of the materials are transitioning through the "glass transition temperature".

Glass transition temperature? We normally think of materials being either gas, liquid or solid (and plasma for those nit pickers!) - BUT - many materials have different states at different conditions. For example, diamonds are merely carbon that has solidified into a crystal. In the same way, some materials will change phase at some conditions of temperature and pressure.

In the case of tires, they heat up as they are operated - and when allowed to cool, they will form a flatspot - and if one of the materials has gone through a glass transition temperature, it may more readily form a flatspot - which will be worked put when the temperature raises again.

Looking at the description of the route taken, it is possible the distance to the freeway is quite different depending on which way you travel. It's the freeway speeds that are generating the heat - and if there is a significant difference in distance to and from the freeway, the tire could cool significantly before the vehicle is stopped - ergo, a flatspot generated one direction, but not the other.
 
Originally Posted By: Oldmoparguy1
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
When temperature changes from 70 to 100 tire pressure is up 3 PSI, the tires face afternoon sun have much higher temperature up to 20-30 higher, therefore those tires can have as much as 5-6 PSI above morning pressure before driving.

I would check pressure in the morning and don't have it more than placard, then afternoon it will be no more than 2-3 PSI above placard.

Yes! I have a good gauge. Thanks. Good place to start.

I was thinking rotate tires front to back.


Originally Posted By: Oldmoparguy1
Ok, last update. The tires run smooth, no symptoms of out of balance. This has been an odd experience.

What did you do to cure the problem ? Adjusted pressure or rotated front to back or both ?
 
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