Failed Safety Inspection: Questions?

[MONKEYMAN]

The car is a 1999 Saturn SL2. Mileage 254,777.

Two parts failed. "Both rear stab. links worn allowing excessive bar movement. Rear sway bar bushings worn allowing excess bar movement".

Asking around $225.00 to do all repairs. Said I could go somewhere else. Somewhere is Me.

So Rock Auto had Moog Stabilizer Links $24.00 a pair. It is probably good to replace the links since they can break. I hit something in the rode that blew out my left rear tire recently. So it may be a blessing in disguise that the links were flagged.

After research I do not want to mess with the sway bar bushings. I have limited use of my shoulder and limited tools. They are set replace those for $97.00 on Tuesday.

Here is where I have questions or doubts. I went to remove left rear wheel to replace the links. Could not get any of the lug nuts to budge, even with a breaker bar. I torque them to 100 lbs. I rotate my own tires.

So I call the Service Station/Shop. Talked to the Manager. They will remove the wheel so I can change my links. I was told they do not use anything to torque the lug nuts. No torque sticks. No torque wrench. Manager: "We use an impact gun. Have not had a problem for...2 years."

I did not know you could fail inspection due to sway bar bushings?

Was this a slow day? Need to generate some revenue? It seems like this is being picky, but my level of knowledge does not allow me determine that.

At this point I don't have a lot of confidence in this shop. My time is limited. Not sure other shops will be better. Plus, they need check the parts after replacement for me to pass inspection. Not sure that involves removing the back wheel again but I do have my torque wrench in my trunk and plan to not leave the shop until the wheel is torqued properly. After that I plan to never go back for a safety inspection or refer friends to this shop.

 

[Wolf359]

I guess it depends on the laws in your state. I can see it going both ways. In theory, no links means no sway bars so the handling of the car isn't up to spec so that could be considered a safety item. However there are other car manufacturers that have had rear sway bars in some other model year, and in another the manufacturer removed them as a cost saving measure. There could be some other rule that says if it has them, they have to be ok.

 

[MONKEYMAN]

Originally Posted By: Wolf359
I guess it depends on the laws in your state. I can see it going both ways. In theory, no links means no sway bars so the handling of the car isn't up to spec so that could be considered a safety item. However there are other car manufacturers that have had rear sway bars in some other model year, and in another the manufacturer removed them as a cost saving measure. There could be some other rule that says if it has them, they have to be ok.


I think on the SL model the links were deleted. IIRC some owners pull them from a junk yard to upgrade their SL. I am more concerned about the over torquing of my lug nuts. One reason I rotate my own tires is most tire shops did not torque things right, check air pressures, etc.

 

[supton]

I think I would go elsewhere. I mean, one does not have to use a torque wrench on every bolt, but if you cannot budge the lugs with a two foot breaker, then they are just abusing every bolt they can. And you will not be able to remove the wheels when they are done this time either.

 

[Rick in PA]

I believe the suspension components. Our state can be picky regarding inspection. The cars get a pretty good going over by independent, but state certified, inspection stations. They check lights, brakes, suspension, exhaust, and body / frame for rust perforation.

I'd be more concerned by the "We use an impact gun. Have not had a problem for...2 years." Just installing wheels with an impact gun went out years ago, due to safety concerns / insurance. Everybody I know uses a torque wrench of some sort.

 

[MONKEYMAN]

It is a family owned shop/gas station. So maybe they are doing things they way they did them back in the day when Grandpa opened the business 50 years ago? The manager is one of the Grand daughters. Seemed like some of the customers where older. Probably going there a long time. Did not seem like the type of people that would remove their own tires for any reason.

 

[Donald]

The place needs to be using a torque wrench or torque sticks with an impact.

Here is the crazyness of shops that inspect and repair. You inspect your own work. Do you think a pipe welder at a nuclear power plant gets to inspect his own welds?

NJ had it right when I lived there, state run inspection stations that inspect only.

 

[HerrStig]

What's the factory torque figure for the wheels? Toyota uses 78 pounds.

 

[MONKEYMAN]

103. I usually set torque wrench to 100. On my Sentra it was a similar torque to Toyota. One new guy doing my Sentra tires at a tire shop striped out several lug nuts during his first and last week on that job.

 

[hansj3]

Its 100 ft lbs

 

[MONKEYMAN]

Originally Posted By: Donald
The place needs to be using a torque wrench or torque sticks with an impact.

Here is the crazyness of shops that inspect and repair. You inspect your own work. Do you think a pipe welder at a nuclear power plant gets to inspect his own welds?

NJ had it right when I lived there, state run inspection stations that inspect only.


Exactly. One reason I do all the repairs I can do. I have had too many repair shops do shoddy work. I am sure time is a factor. I can take my time and pay attention to details. Depending on how busy shops are they have to rush.

I will rest well at night knowing my links will be torqued to 30 ft lbs.

 

[gathermewool]

Slight digression: I lost my poo on a tire shop that over-torqued my wife's lugs. With a sticking caliper to check in someone else's driveway, I was standing, bouncing on the OEM lug wrench but could not get a single nut to budge for either front wheel!

When I called to ask if they use a torque wrench to torque lugs to spec, the guy at the counter said, "yes, we use torque sticks on everything," and to come down for them to check it out for us and loosen the lugs.

When we arrived, I laughed out loud when I saw not one, but two techs tightening lugs on two different cars using pneumatic impact guns!

I again asked the guy at the front counter how they torque lugs and got the same response given during the previous phone call, to which I responded (with my voice raised high enough for everyone in the reception to hear), "OH, YEA, THEN WHAT ARE THEY DOING!?" LOL

Who knows, maybe they used the impact guns to get each lug to >150 ft-#, THEN checked with a torque stick set at 85 ft-# afterward...

 

[willbur]

PA state vehicle inspection is classic conflict of interest. A shop does the inspection and gets to do repairs on the items it found "defective". These inspections should be performed in state run facilities where the inspector has no financial interest in your car passing or failing. Like CA or NJ (formerly) . You then can take your car wherever you want for the needed repairs.

 

[eljefino]

Does the back of the PA sticker still have a X box to show which drum they banged off?

Saturn drums get so hung up with rust I'd be glad to have them banged off every other year (one side one year, the other the next).

I'm frankly surprised your bushings are bad, as typically the little ball joints in the end links sieze and the links themselves snap.

You can take the car anywhere for service; the inspection station would just be happy to assist you with one-stop shopping. In Maine your failure isn't recorded in any computer anywhere so you can get a 2nd or 3rd opinion from other mechanics and judge the integrity of said mechanic shop by how straight they perform their inspections. All the rubber suspension bushings are on the Maine list and I bet you could find the PA "bible" online, though I also bet just from how your paperwork is phrased they made it fit the law.

Somehow I suspect if the state ran inspections everyone would show up on the 30th of the month and there'd be huge lines and complaining about understaffing and customer service. Private enterprise seems to figure out how to shuffle work around and get stickers queued.

 

[Turk]

Originally Posted By: hansj3
Its 100 ft lbs


The Saturn Manuals say 103 ft/lbs. The charts at most shops say 100 ft/lbs.

But who's counting, lol.

 

[widman]

Back about 15 years or so ago there were a lot of problems with warped rotors and several law suits. a friend who sold Snapon made a fortune selling and calibrating impact wrenches to set the proper torque for each car.

The problem in getting them off is if you start out with 100 and add a few years of rust, they are on pretty good. I have a truck that we once had to have the nuts cut off with a torch since even jumping on the end of a 6 ft bar would not bulge them. Around 10 tire shops had given up.

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: widman
Back about 15 years or so ago there were a lot of problems with warped rotors and several law suits. a friend who sold Snapon made a fortune selling and calibrating impact wrenches to set the proper torque for each car.

The problem in getting them off is if you start out with 100 and add a few years of rust, they are on pretty good. I have a truck that we once had to have the nuts cut off with a torch since even jumping on the end of a 6 ft bar would not bulge them. Around 10 tire shops had given up.


Good point, and that story doesn't sound very far-fetched! In my earlier post, the tires had been replaced a couple of months prior, three max.

The OEM tire iron is only 2-3' long, too. I think I previously posted the actual torque Calc, taking into account the fact that the center of my foot as I stood and hopped in the tire iron was a few inches in from the end, lowering the moment arm.

Still, a few months and, we'll say, 200# X 18" (conservative) = 300 ft-# of torque, which did not work.

So, my wife obviously would NOT be able to change her own tire, which might mean she'd be stranded somewhere while a tow service came with an impact gun or large breaker bar.

 

[willbur]

Each opinion will cost you an inspection($70). Also, I never waited more than 15 min. in a very populated/busy part of NJ if I avoided the first and last weeks of the month. Whereas, in PA, it takes a whole day because you drop off the car in the morning, get a ride home/work from another person (taking up their time and gas, too) and then return in the evening to pick up your car.

 

[MONKEYMAN]

Update: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly

The left rear link was in very bad shape. Very loose at bottom. It was a good call on their part flagging it. It needed to be replaced. I could see the sway bar bushing and it looked pretty good. I just ordered two for less than $15.00 off Ebay and cancelled my repair appointment.

Now the Bad and Ugly. I will start with Ugly. Called to see if I could come in so they could remove my wheel. No problem. When I got there I talked to the only person at the counter. When I told her I was here for my tire removal "I know...". Most communication is body language, tone of voice, etc. I got the feeling I was a troublemaker or something. Very negative vibe. In my mind I thought I should get an apology for their mistake.

The Bad or almost comical. She had Joe remove my tire with his air gun. I asked him to torque my wheel to 100 ft. lbs. He magically finds a torque stick. But, according to Joe, they only have an 80 lbs torque stick. He said he said he went easy when tightening the lug nuts.

So here is a service station that services many makes of cars, but appears to not have the proper equipment. After seeing I could do all the repairs myself I had a "Run, Forest Run" moment. It is sad to see such low quality service.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: willbur
Each opinion will cost you an inspection($70). Also, I never waited more than 15 min. in a very populated/busy part of NJ if I avoided the first and last weeks of the month. Whereas, in PA, it takes a whole day because you drop off the car in the morning, get a ride home/work from another person (taking up their time and gas, too) and then return in the evening to pick up your car.


Shop I use is like that too. Drop off the night before, pick up the following one. Kinda annoying but they have not done me wrong.

I could use the dealer for my truck as it has free inspections for life. Just an hour or two of waiting during the day. But last time I was there they over tightened the skidplate bolts, and stripped a lugnut. I went back for the lugnut. They screwed that up too, big nick in the thread somehow.