I have 4 lennox units and they seem to work great i replaced the original york units that were 19 years old when one compressor went and another was getting louder every year so i replaced them all. They seem to be ok... Are they the best? Who knows..
13 Seer or 16 Seer question
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I have a Bryant and it works well. Had good luck w/Carrier too. Trane spends a lot of $$$ on advertising. Personally, I would go Bryant or Carrier instead.
I usually prefer the higher efficiency equipment when possible. When we built our home 13 SEER was pretty much top of the efficiency chart, but over the years it's paid off nicely.
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Our highest electricity cost was last summer at $45-50 for Aug and Sept. I set thermostat at 83F during the day and 80F after 5:00 PM. So the A/C is rarely on.
Ouch. How inefficient is your system? We set ours to 68 at night and 74 during the day during the hot, humid Iowa summer, and to cool our 4200 square foot home isn't much more than yours at 83/80.
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Our highest electricity cost was last summer at $45-50 for Aug and Sept. I set thermostat at 83F during the day and 80F after 5:00 PM. So the A/C is rarely on.
Ouch. How inefficient is your system? We set ours to 68 at night and 74 during the day during the hot, humid Iowa summer, and to cool our 4200 square foot home isn't much more than yours at 83/80.
Originally Posted By: Rand
are you sure about that price? is that the final price?
In Ohio we have a "delivery charge" and a kwh charge
they are nearly equal (at least on my bill)
My last bill. After all the charges its nearly 14Cents/kwh
My December bill was 130.xx for 965 kwh or almost exactly the same as the "cost recovery and distribution" scale exactly with the amount "delivered"
I am pretty sure I am paying more per unit in MI.
are you sure about that price? is that the final price?
In Ohio we have a "delivery charge" and a kwh charge
they are nearly equal (at least on my bill)
My last bill. After all the charges its nearly 14Cents/kwh
My December bill was 130.xx for 965 kwh or almost exactly the same as the "cost recovery and distribution" scale exactly with the amount "delivered"
I am pretty sure I am paying more per unit in MI.
How would you like to get an immediate return on your (much smaller) investment?
Go with the less expensive unit and spend the difference on having a blower door test on your residence. Then fix what leaks. Also seal up your air returns.
No use spending $$$ on higher SEER when these other big leaks are present. Furthermore, have a Manual J and D analysis done on your residence to determine both the cooling & heating load and what size duct/CFM you need going to which rooms, respectively.
This will make FAR MORE difference in your overall comfort, electric bill, and equipment life than three SEER points.
Go with the less expensive unit and spend the difference on having a blower door test on your residence. Then fix what leaks. Also seal up your air returns.
No use spending $$$ on higher SEER when these other big leaks are present. Furthermore, have a Manual J and D analysis done on your residence to determine both the cooling & heating load and what size duct/CFM you need going to which rooms, respectively.
This will make FAR MORE difference in your overall comfort, electric bill, and equipment life than three SEER points.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
I usually prefer the higher efficiency equipment when possible. When we built our home 13 SEER was pretty much top of the efficiency chart, but over the years it's paid off nicely.
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Our highest electricity cost was last summer at $45-50 for Aug and Sept. I set thermostat at 83F during the day and 80F after 5:00 PM. So the A/C is rarely on.
Ouch. How inefficient is your system? We set ours to 68 at night and 74 during the day during the hot, humid Iowa summer, and to cool our 4200 square foot home isn't much more than yours at 83/80.
How about post kWh usage and rate to do a proper comparison?
I usually prefer the higher efficiency equipment when possible. When we built our home 13 SEER was pretty much top of the efficiency chart, but over the years it's paid off nicely.
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Our highest electricity cost was last summer at $45-50 for Aug and Sept. I set thermostat at 83F during the day and 80F after 5:00 PM. So the A/C is rarely on.
Ouch. How inefficient is your system? We set ours to 68 at night and 74 during the day during the hot, humid Iowa summer, and to cool our 4200 square foot home isn't much more than yours at 83/80.
How about post kWh usage and rate to do a proper comparison?
After suffering through many uncomfortable summers, we finally got central AC at the end of the Summer of '07.
I'd looked around for months. Trane unit had a high SEER value for the day, perhaps 14, but was around $4K installed.
I talked with an energy efficiency advisor @ work, who had worked out in private in the HVAC industry for years before joining our public utility. He advised me to stay away from the high-SEER units, not because of the high capital cost, but because of the high maintenance costs. He said the new refrigerants were prone to leaking, due to the smaller molecules. I bought a Lennox unit, SEER 11 (?), for around $2300 installed. It's been trouble-free so far. I think my unit uses R-134a.
Our electricity here is pretty affordable - around $0.07/kWh. The payback on the TRANE would have been decades, even assuming trouble-free operation.
I'd looked around for months. Trane unit had a high SEER value for the day, perhaps 14, but was around $4K installed.
I talked with an energy efficiency advisor @ work, who had worked out in private in the HVAC industry for years before joining our public utility. He advised me to stay away from the high-SEER units, not because of the high capital cost, but because of the high maintenance costs. He said the new refrigerants were prone to leaking, due to the smaller molecules. I bought a Lennox unit, SEER 11 (?), for around $2300 installed. It's been trouble-free so far. I think my unit uses R-134a.
Our electricity here is pretty affordable - around $0.07/kWh. The payback on the TRANE would have been decades, even assuming trouble-free operation.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: Number_35
After suffering through many uncomfortable summers, we finally got central AC at the end of the Summer of '07.
I'd looked around for months. Trane unit had a high SEER value for the day, perhaps 14, but was around $4K installed.
I talked with an energy efficiency advisor @ work, who had worked out in private in the HVAC industry for years before joining our public utility. He advised me to stay away from the high-SEER units, not because of the high capital cost, but because of the high maintenance costs. He said the new refrigerants were prone to leaking, due to the smaller molecules. I bought a Lennox unit, SEER 11 (?), for around $2300 installed. It's been trouble-free so far. I think my unit uses R-134a.
Our electricity here is pretty affordable - around $0.07/kWh. The payback on the TRANE would have been decades, even assuming trouble-free operation.
LOL, theyre spewing stuff like that about R-410 over R-134a? That was the argument against R-134a over R-12 and R-22.
The propaganda train never ends.
I fail to see how properly flared any nylog'ed copper connections and tubing will diffuse out 410 or 134a. That is an argument regarding non-barrier hose and 134a, but that's not your argument here...
After suffering through many uncomfortable summers, we finally got central AC at the end of the Summer of '07.
I'd looked around for months. Trane unit had a high SEER value for the day, perhaps 14, but was around $4K installed.
I talked with an energy efficiency advisor @ work, who had worked out in private in the HVAC industry for years before joining our public utility. He advised me to stay away from the high-SEER units, not because of the high capital cost, but because of the high maintenance costs. He said the new refrigerants were prone to leaking, due to the smaller molecules. I bought a Lennox unit, SEER 11 (?), for around $2300 installed. It's been trouble-free so far. I think my unit uses R-134a.
Our electricity here is pretty affordable - around $0.07/kWh. The payback on the TRANE would have been decades, even assuming trouble-free operation.
LOL, theyre spewing stuff like that about R-410 over R-134a? That was the argument against R-134a over R-12 and R-22.
The propaganda train never ends.
I fail to see how properly flared any nylog'ed copper connections and tubing will diffuse out 410 or 134a. That is an argument regarding non-barrier hose and 134a, but that's not your argument here...
Put in a 'replacement' 13 SEER R22 unit. Why? They are reliable and cheaper. R22 is plentiful and the units are more reliable than the higher SEER units. It would take many years to recover any savings from a higher SEER unit.
I know many people that have taken this route. 13 SEER is pretty efficient and 'replacement' units can be had reasonably priced.
I know many people that have taken this route. 13 SEER is pretty efficient and 'replacement' units can be had reasonably priced.
The common trap of high SEER units (16 and above) is that they have to be sized and set up right in order for the owners to enjoy the savings and better comfort they provide. Even using a wrong thermostat or wiring can eliminate the benefits of a multistage/variable speed set up. Perhaps now that these units are more common, the installers are more knowledgeable about them, but even about four years back, when I was doing my AC research, I read lots of reports on one of the HVAC forums (where only the recognized and proven members can answer questions) about technicians wiring up these multistage units as single stage because it was easier, faster for them.
If they are set up to never get out of the first stage or the low speed, then the owner bought one fancy and expensive 13 SEER equivalent unit.
With 13-14 SEER units, getting the size right is pretty much the biggest thing to worry about, all else being equal.
If they are set up to never get out of the first stage or the low speed, then the owner bought one fancy and expensive 13 SEER equivalent unit.
With 13-14 SEER units, getting the size right is pretty much the biggest thing to worry about, all else being equal.
The only time I have seen it being worthwhile in my 1100sq foot home is if there is a big tax break, and a rebate from the utility at work.
We wouldn't have put in low flow toilets, and fixtures if my city wasn't paying 50 percent of the bill. It isn't quite worth it.
We wouldn't have put in low flow toilets, and fixtures if my city wasn't paying 50 percent of the bill. It isn't quite worth it.
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
The common trap of high SEER units (16 and above) is that they have to be sized and set up right in order for the owners to enjoy the savings and better comfort they provide. Even using a wrong thermostat or wiring can eliminate the benefits of a multistage/variable speed set up. Perhaps now that these units are more common, the installers are more knowledgeable about them, but even about four years back, when I was doing my AC research, I read lots of reports on one of the HVAC forums (where only the recognized and proven members can answer questions) about technicians wiring up these multistage units as single stage because it was easier, faster for them.
If they are set up to never get out of the first stage or the low speed, then the owner bought one fancy and expensive 13 SEER equivalent unit.
With 13-14 SEER units, getting the size right is pretty much the biggest thing to worry about, all else being equal.
Also the higher SEER units use R 410a refrigerant. A whole lot more work and parts to change over from R22. A buddy was told the horror stories of sticking with R22. Turns out he saved over $2000 by having a 'replacement' R22 unit installed.
The common trap of high SEER units (16 and above) is that they have to be sized and set up right in order for the owners to enjoy the savings and better comfort they provide. Even using a wrong thermostat or wiring can eliminate the benefits of a multistage/variable speed set up. Perhaps now that these units are more common, the installers are more knowledgeable about them, but even about four years back, when I was doing my AC research, I read lots of reports on one of the HVAC forums (where only the recognized and proven members can answer questions) about technicians wiring up these multistage units as single stage because it was easier, faster for them.
If they are set up to never get out of the first stage or the low speed, then the owner bought one fancy and expensive 13 SEER equivalent unit.
With 13-14 SEER units, getting the size right is pretty much the biggest thing to worry about, all else being equal.
Also the higher SEER units use R 410a refrigerant. A whole lot more work and parts to change over from R22. A buddy was told the horror stories of sticking with R22. Turns out he saved over $2000 by having a 'replacement' R22 unit installed.
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