My Peterbuilt 475 isx hits 250 degrees at times is this still a safe temp ?
Mobil Delvac 15-40 oil
Mobil Delvac 15-40 oil
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what is a safe oil op temp ?
- Thread starter 2hellandback
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It will oxidise 2 x quickier than if it was at 230F, but it still "safe", for a shorter oci.
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Hi,
I presume you will have a Cummins power-plant?
Detroit Series 60's had these parameters C/F;
Shut down = 121/250
Warning = 115/240
Normal up to = 110/230
My Averages = 95/203
I presume you will have a Cummins power-plant?
Detroit Series 60's had these parameters C/F;
Shut down = 121/250
Warning = 115/240
Normal up to = 110/230
My Averages = 95/203
I assume these temps are tempory.like only during a long steep pull?
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
I presume you will have a Cummins power-plant?
Detroit Series 60's had these parameters C/F;
Shut down = 121/250
Warning = 115/240
Normal up to = 110/230
My Averages = 95/203
So he is achieving shut down oil temps?
Hi,
I presume you will have a Cummins power-plant?
Detroit Series 60's had these parameters C/F;
Shut down = 121/250
Warning = 115/240
Normal up to = 110/230
My Averages = 95/203
So he is achieving shut down oil temps?
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
I presume you will have a Cummins power-plant?
Detroit Series 60's had these parameters C/F;
Shut down = 121/250
Warning = 115/240
Normal up to = 110/230
My Averages = 95/203
So he is achieving shut down oil temps?
according to Detroit he is. But I believe he has a couple of turbos on the isx and they will really cook oil.
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
I presume you will have a Cummins power-plant?
Detroit Series 60's had these parameters C/F;
Shut down = 121/250
Warning = 115/240
Normal up to = 110/230
My Averages = 95/203
So he is achieving shut down oil temps?
according to Detroit he is. But I believe he has a couple of turbos on the isx and they will really cook oil.
Originally Posted By: Chris142
according to Detroit he is. But I believe he has a couple of turbos on the isx and they will really cook oil.
Negative on the twins.
250°F will also generate a stop engine light with the Cummins.
2hellandback - Given this is an ISX, I wouldn't be surprised if the oil cooler is shot. However, to check something else...is your water temp @ 180?
according to Detroit he is. But I believe he has a couple of turbos on the isx and they will really cook oil.
Negative on the twins.
250°F will also generate a stop engine light with the Cummins.
2hellandback - Given this is an ISX, I wouldn't be surprised if the oil cooler is shot. However, to check something else...is your water temp @ 180?
JHZR2
Staff member
Not a HD diesel, but plenty of BMW cars with the n54/55 engines see 250 and higher temps.
Hi,
As for coolant temps;
Detroit Series 60's had these parameters C/F;
Shut down = 106/220
Warning = 100/212
Normal up to = 95/203
My Averages = 87/190
My typically recorded highs on long climbs were;
Coolant = 95/203
Oil = 112/234
Amongst other factors the fan's actuation point could be checked as could the integrity of the oil cooler itself as another Poster suggested
As a point of interest my gearbox and diff temps always operated around 30% less than the "up to normal" temp points once converted to synthetic lubricants
With Horton type fans the temperature reduction is typically very quick once actuated
As for coolant temps;
Detroit Series 60's had these parameters C/F;
Shut down = 106/220
Warning = 100/212
Normal up to = 95/203
My Averages = 87/190
My typically recorded highs on long climbs were;
Coolant = 95/203
Oil = 112/234
Amongst other factors the fan's actuation point could be checked as could the integrity of the oil cooler itself as another Poster suggested
As a point of interest my gearbox and diff temps always operated around 30% less than the "up to normal" temp points once converted to synthetic lubricants
With Horton type fans the temperature reduction is typically very quick once actuated
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my engine temp stays around 180 to 204 oil climbs before cooling fan ever kicks on at 210,,,, mechcanic told me the oil isn't circulated to /through the oil cooler until oil hits 210 im wondering if im having an oil temp sensor malfunction?
One turbo
Originally Posted By: 2hellandback
My Peterbuilt 475 isx hits 250 degrees at times is this still a safe temp ?
Mobil Delvac 15-40 oil
My 2013 volvo with a D13 engine allows the oil to run 245F. As soon as it hits 246F the water temp will jump suddenly (10-15 degrees) as it absorbs the heat from the oil cooler. The oil drops to about 239F and then begins it's ascent to 245F again.
This past winter it would run 223F-235F unless I was climbing a hill. This summer it has stayed at the upper limit. Each time it cools to 239F it quickly (maybe within 1-2 miles) climbs back to 245F and cools again. On long steep hills it has hit 252 but I don't know what the shutdown temp is.
My 2012 Volvo had a little D11 that ran the same temps when I purchased it new. However, I went into a dealer at 39K miles for minor warranty work and they reprogrammed it to run the more typical 210F. The service writer said it was his understanding that the D11 was showing problems in the geartrain and Volvo suspected the high oil temps as the culprit. The problems turned up in higher mileage trucks that were run day and night (like LTL carriers).
So far, no reprogramming on the D13.
My Peterbuilt 475 isx hits 250 degrees at times is this still a safe temp ?
Mobil Delvac 15-40 oil
My 2013 volvo with a D13 engine allows the oil to run 245F. As soon as it hits 246F the water temp will jump suddenly (10-15 degrees) as it absorbs the heat from the oil cooler. The oil drops to about 239F and then begins it's ascent to 245F again.
This past winter it would run 223F-235F unless I was climbing a hill. This summer it has stayed at the upper limit. Each time it cools to 239F it quickly (maybe within 1-2 miles) climbs back to 245F and cools again. On long steep hills it has hit 252 but I don't know what the shutdown temp is.
My 2012 Volvo had a little D11 that ran the same temps when I purchased it new. However, I went into a dealer at 39K miles for minor warranty work and they reprogrammed it to run the more typical 210F. The service writer said it was his understanding that the D11 was showing problems in the geartrain and Volvo suspected the high oil temps as the culprit. The problems turned up in higher mileage trucks that were run day and night (like LTL carriers).
So far, no reprogramming on the D13.
With Mobil Delvac, it will be safe, since those limits taking in acount mineral oils. Delvac 15w40 isn't fully synthetic anymore?
Forget it, there are several Mobil Delvac 15w40 oil: Elite, MX, HP, XP. what ever. Fully, Blends ... With one the op is running?
Forget it, there are several Mobil Delvac 15w40 oil: Elite, MX, HP, XP. what ever. Fully, Blends ... With one the op is running?
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There is also the Delvac 1300 15w40. So many ...
dnewton3
Staff member
I think we need to clarify the question here, or more specifically, understand that there are actually two questions likely being addressed:
1) what is a safe temp for the ISX
2) what is a safe temp for the lube
I don't know enough about the operational parameters set into the PCM for the ISX; someone else will have to help out here.
As for the lube, 250F is in no way unsafe. Even a conventional lube can provide a good performance if the base stock is of good quality. I believe an ideal temp would be 200-225F; most would agree about that. But a little spike in oil temp is not going to grenade the engine nor the lube. Even long sustained runs are tolerable. If you were to approach 300F in the sump, I would be concerned. But not at 250F.
And just for reference, before any of you go off half-cocked and say I'm nuts, I'll offer this bit of information ...
In the infamous GM filter study (881825), they ran the DD-60 engines at full load, with the sump at 250F for the entire duration of all the tests. Eight hours at a time. Repeated several times. On conventional lube from 1988.
And while we also would agree that massive oxidation insolubles are a bad thing, I'll remind you all that some amount of high-heat oxidation is actually a good thing, because it promotes the TCB (tribo chemical boundary layer) formation on the part wear surfaces. Or have you all forgot about SAE 2007-01-4133? This anti-wear layer of oxidation byproduct is actually a good thing, and is bolstered by higher heat. Once it is established, wear rates typically drop precipitously by and order of magnitude to near-zero levels (a direct quote from the study).
Several years ago, I flogged my Dmax pulling our RV through the Rockies and into the desert southwest for summer vacation. I let the sump get as low as I could tolerate on the dipstick. I ran that engine with no mercy in regard to throttle; if I wanted to move, I floored it, at times for minutes on end in uphill pulls out of the valley floors and over ranges. I am sure the turbo temps got hot; the EGT was maxed at OEM limits around 1300F countless times on the trip. And when I got back, and pulled the UOA, everything was completely normal; totally within specs for both the wear metals and the lube conditions. All on dino 10w-30 Rotella TP.
Is there a reason to fear lube degradation? Sure. But not at 250F.
1) what is a safe temp for the ISX
2) what is a safe temp for the lube
I don't know enough about the operational parameters set into the PCM for the ISX; someone else will have to help out here.
As for the lube, 250F is in no way unsafe. Even a conventional lube can provide a good performance if the base stock is of good quality. I believe an ideal temp would be 200-225F; most would agree about that. But a little spike in oil temp is not going to grenade the engine nor the lube. Even long sustained runs are tolerable. If you were to approach 300F in the sump, I would be concerned. But not at 250F.
And just for reference, before any of you go off half-cocked and say I'm nuts, I'll offer this bit of information ...
In the infamous GM filter study (881825), they ran the DD-60 engines at full load, with the sump at 250F for the entire duration of all the tests. Eight hours at a time. Repeated several times. On conventional lube from 1988.
And while we also would agree that massive oxidation insolubles are a bad thing, I'll remind you all that some amount of high-heat oxidation is actually a good thing, because it promotes the TCB (tribo chemical boundary layer) formation on the part wear surfaces. Or have you all forgot about SAE 2007-01-4133? This anti-wear layer of oxidation byproduct is actually a good thing, and is bolstered by higher heat. Once it is established, wear rates typically drop precipitously by and order of magnitude to near-zero levels (a direct quote from the study).
Several years ago, I flogged my Dmax pulling our RV through the Rockies and into the desert southwest for summer vacation. I let the sump get as low as I could tolerate on the dipstick. I ran that engine with no mercy in regard to throttle; if I wanted to move, I floored it, at times for minutes on end in uphill pulls out of the valley floors and over ranges. I am sure the turbo temps got hot; the EGT was maxed at OEM limits around 1300F countless times on the trip. And when I got back, and pulled the UOA, everything was completely normal; totally within specs for both the wear metals and the lube conditions. All on dino 10w-30 Rotella TP.
Is there a reason to fear lube degradation? Sure. But not at 250F.
According to older truckers Deutz air-cooled engines would actually seized in hot weather due to,overheating /metal expansion. Oil would be boiling inside oil pan. After cooling down they would just start truck and drive away. Maybe it's bull, but few truckers told me similar anecdotes.
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Hi,
Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
The maximum allowable oil sump temperature as specified by Cummins is 250°F. That's what matters -- nothing else.
In response to the OP's question, I agree!
Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
The maximum allowable oil sump temperature as specified by Cummins is 250°F. That's what matters -- nothing else.
In response to the OP's question, I agree!
Hi,
Originally Posted By: chrisri
According to older truckers Deutz air-cooled engines would actually seized in hot weather due to,overheating /metal expansion. Oil would be boiling inside oil pan. After cooling down they would just start truck and drive away. Maybe it's bull, but few truckers told me similar anecdotes.
Thanks for the input. I am quite a fan of Deutz engines, they were once quite popular here in OZ - even on OTR vehicles. The most common applications were on farm machinery. Most cooling problems were invariably caused by poor servicing of the air cooling systems (ducting, fins etc.) - they can become clogged with various debris and sometimes require cleaning on a daily basis especially in farm work
Thanks for the memories................
Originally Posted By: chrisri
According to older truckers Deutz air-cooled engines would actually seized in hot weather due to,overheating /metal expansion. Oil would be boiling inside oil pan. After cooling down they would just start truck and drive away. Maybe it's bull, but few truckers told me similar anecdotes.
Thanks for the input. I am quite a fan of Deutz engines, they were once quite popular here in OZ - even on OTR vehicles. The most common applications were on farm machinery. Most cooling problems were invariably caused by poor servicing of the air cooling systems (ducting, fins etc.) - they can become clogged with various debris and sometimes require cleaning on a daily basis especially in farm work
Thanks for the memories................
Hi Doug,
Magirus-Deutz and TAM both used Deutz air-cooled / oil cooled engines up to mid 80s. They weren't common sight in Europe back then, but TAM was popular in ex Yu for simplicity, and high taxation of imported equipment. This power plants were great for extreme ambient temperatures like northern Europe and northern desserts of Africa for their inherent design. Supposedly in dessert environment radiators can get clogged fast, at least back then. In more modern times, O&K- excavator / heavy equipment manufacturer installed Deutz engines in their products. My friend actually had one of those, and he talked very highly of his excavator, and Deutz engine. Only one rebuilt in 15 years. Machine operated almost on daily basis. According to his strong points were great simple engine that's working fine in dusty environment and completed lack of electronics. He worked on a major construction site over here, and his machine was more reliable than modern JCBs and others!
Magirus-Deutz and TAM both used Deutz air-cooled / oil cooled engines up to mid 80s. They weren't common sight in Europe back then, but TAM was popular in ex Yu for simplicity, and high taxation of imported equipment. This power plants were great for extreme ambient temperatures like northern Europe and northern desserts of Africa for their inherent design. Supposedly in dessert environment radiators can get clogged fast, at least back then. In more modern times, O&K- excavator / heavy equipment manufacturer installed Deutz engines in their products. My friend actually had one of those, and he talked very highly of his excavator, and Deutz engine. Only one rebuilt in 15 years. Machine operated almost on daily basis. According to his strong points were great simple engine that's working fine in dusty environment and completed lack of electronics. He worked on a major construction site over here, and his machine was more reliable than modern JCBs and others!
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