Clutch Master Cylinder Grease Recommendation

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Hi Everyone!

My CMC on my honda is creaking/squeaking. I can have it swapped (and may do so in the future) but others report the sound comes back. I know it's coming from within the CMC itself. I know this because I sprayed GM SuperLube in there with a straw and the noise went away.... for 2 days. I used SuperLube because it's safe for plastics and rubber. I'm not 100% sure but pretty sure that the Honda CMC uses plastic/rubber.

So, what would be a good grease to use that I can inject into the CMC that is thick (so it lasts more than 2 days) and is SAFE for plastic and rubber?

A lot of people with this problem have used standard White Lithium grease. Some say it lasts up to a year before the sound comes back. I'm reluctant because I've read that for most spray-type lubricants, the propellent is what causes damage and for my tube of White Lithium (non-aerosol) it says "Contains Petrolium Hydrocarbons". Wouldn't this damage the plastic/rubber components?

I'm open to any recommendations!!
 
I had that on my Accord. The one issue on an otherwise great car (that I'd still have if I could cram 3 kids in it). I replaced the part and the squeak did come back after a few months. The way it works is the shaft that the pedal pushes has a rounded end that fits into a concave cup on the plunger and this gets ridges worn into it that click and creak when they cross each other. I tried a lot of greases but in the end what worked was pulling that rod out (but leaving the plunger in which was easy on the aftermarket part) and polishing the rounded end.

In my experience lithium grease lasted a few months and was easy to inject through the aerosol straw which is why people use it. Anything thinner lasts days not months. My plan was to pull the cap off so I could fill the area behind the plunger with Lucas Red and Tacky but when I did that the rod came out and when I saw the end I could see what the issue was. Chocked the rod in a drill and went through a few grits of sandpaper up to maybe 400~600, greased it up and had a happy last 20,000 miles or so.

FWIW, I did a diy on the CMC replacement on an 06 Accord:

http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2856502

Probably a 15 minute job that becomes 2 hours because of the awkward location. Part was only about 40 bucks from RockAuto.
 
Do they make a sprayable silicone grease? True silicone grease would be my first pick if you can get it in there.
 
Originally Posted By: bepperb
I had that on my Accord. The one issue on an otherwise great car (that I'd still have if I could cram 3 kids in it). I replaced the part and the squeak did come back after a few months. The way it works is the shaft that the pedal pushes has a rounded end that fits into a concave cup on the plunger and this gets ridges worn into it that click and creak when they cross each other. I tried a lot of greases but in the end what worked was pulling that rod out (but leaving the plunger in which was easy on the aftermarket part) and polishing the rounded end.

In my experience lithium grease lasted a few months and was easy to inject through the aerosol straw which is why people use it. Anything thinner lasts days not months. My plan was to pull the cap off so I could fill the area behind the plunger with Lucas Red and Tacky but when I did that the rod came out and when I saw the end I could see what the issue was. Chocked the rod in a drill and went through a few grits of sandpaper up to maybe 400~600, greased it up and had a happy last 20,000 miles or so.

FWIW, I did a diy on the CMC replacement on an 06 Accord:

http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2856502

Probably a 15 minute job that becomes 2 hours because of the awkward location. Part was only about 40 bucks from RockAuto.


Wow! Thanks for sharing your experience. I guess this is a common problem with most manual Hondas.

You mentioned "...a few grits of sandpaper up to maybe 400~600, greased it up and had a happy last 20,000 miles or so."

What did you use? Mine is so subtle and intermittent that even a tiny squirt (talking fumes here) of the GM SuperLube calmed it for 2-3 days. I would imagine I'm not to the point where the scoring has happened yet and if I can get the right kind of grease in there, maybe it won't get that bad.

I do have some "liquid wrench" silicone spray stuff that I could certainly try.

Initially I was hesitant to use this because: a) it seems to be too thin for anything I use it for. It seems to break down pretty easily so I didn't forsee it being long-term. and b) it makes a stinkin mess and "gums" up -- seemingly preventing any other types of lubricants from actually working. Case-in-point, I have some upper strut mounts on a different vehicle that are on the way out and squeak/creak. I was hitting them with GM SuperLube every so often. One day I couldn't find it so I used the silicone stuff. That lasted maybe a week (probably less). The heck of it is, once I found my SuperLube, it seemed much less effective after the silicone spray treatment. Maybe it's coincidence but I can still kind of "see" the silicone stuff in there (it's not really accessible) and my theory is that it's broken down to where it no longer works but has also "gummed up" or covered the part so much so that now the superlube can't get to where I need it and isn't as effective. Maybe I'm just losing my mind!!
 
I'm sure I used Syl Glyde but I think that's too thick to get into the area you need it without taking it apart which might not be possible on the OEM part. To do this without any disassembly you need an aerosol, the friction point is a good 1/2" behind the hole in the cap you can spray into and the thin straw/stream of lubricant makes that easy to do.

If it's not happening often I'd give it a huge amount of aerosol lithium grease, done with the clutch pedal pushed in, and hold it while the bubbles pop and the grease stops foaming. After a minute or so let the pedal out and a lot of grease will squeeze out. Clean that up and hope that fixes it for a long time.

Otherwise I see there is an updated OEM part for this, not sure the cost.
 
I have an '04 Civic that had a creaky clutch pedal. Below is a response that I wrote for another post a while back. I used CRC white lithium spray grease.


It took me a couple of tries to get it to stop. I don't think the type of grease is the issue, but rather getting it in the right location. The spray grease is good because it sprays all over the place, the bad part is that it can run and drip off before the carrier evaporates.

When I did mine I would push the clutch in a little ways, and give it a squirt on the top, bottom, sides of the shaft, then push the clutch a little further down and do it again. Then continue to hold the clutch down for a minute of so to give the grease some time to dry.

At first I would spray the grease in the hole and then let the clutch up, and the liquid grease would squeeze back out of the hole and into the cabin, then I started holding the pedal down and giving it some time to dry and, bingo!

BTW I still get the creak occasionally after a lot of rain or when its really damp out, but it goes away after a few minutes of driving.
 
Originally Posted By: bepperb
I'm sure I used Syl Glyde but I think that's too thick to get into the area you need it without taking it apart which might not be possible on the OEM part. To do this without any disassembly you need an aerosol, the friction point is a good 1/2" behind the hole in the cap you can spray into and the thin straw/stream of lubricant makes that easy to do.

If it's not happening often I'd give it a huge amount of aerosol lithium grease, done with the clutch pedal pushed in, and hold it while the bubbles pop and the grease stops foaming. After a minute or so let the pedal out and a lot of grease will squeeze out. Clean that up and hope that fixes it for a long time.

Otherwise I see there is an updated OEM part for this, not sure the cost.


Thanks for the reply. My concern with aerosol and WL grease is that it may swell/deteriorate the rubber/plastic stuff. Do you have any input on this? I conatacted Permatrex (the maker of the WL grease) but haven't gotten a reply.

I may be able to get some syl glyde in there using a infant medicine syringe (yes, odd, but I've read people have done it).... I'm just worried that the WL isn't good for rubber/plastic.

...oh and I saw the updated OEM part... That's the one I've got in there. I just had my orig. CMC replaced last summer or so... the updated part is the one creaking!! From my research last summer:

There are (at least) 3 part numbers for 8th gen CMC's:

Part 1: the stock (defective) CMC that came on the car
Part 2: the part number for the corrected part that is listed on the TSB
Part 3: the part number for the 2010-2011 Si's CMC that came on them (after the fix was issued).

Is this what you saw?:

click.jpg
 
Originally Posted By: JamesBond
I have an '04 Civic that had a creaky clutch pedal. Below is a response that I wrote for another post a while back. I used CRC white lithium spray grease.


It took me a couple of tries to get it to stop. I don't think the type of grease is the issue, but rather getting it in the right location. The spray grease is good because it sprays all over the place, the bad part is that it can run and drip off before the carrier evaporates.

When I did mine I would push the clutch in a little ways, and give it a squirt on the top, bottom, sides of the shaft, then push the clutch a little further down and do it again. Then continue to hold the clutch down for a minute of so to give the grease some time to dry.

At first I would spray the grease in the hole and then let the clutch up, and the liquid grease would squeeze back out of the hole and into the cabin, then I started holding the pedal down and giving it some time to dry and, bingo!

BTW I still get the creak occasionally after a lot of rain or when its really damp out, but it goes away after a few minutes of driving.


Thanks for your reply Mr. Bond.
grin.gif


For me, I really think it's more a matter of what kind of grease I get in there. I seriously had an EMPTY can of GM SuperLube and got maybe a teeny dab of it in there (straw wasn't really all the way in) and it quieted it... but only for a couple of days. I feel like if it were a better grease (thicker and/or more heat resistant?) It would last much much longer, if not the life of the part/car.

Curious, how long ago did you do this and has it STILL lasted (I know you quoted an older post of yours)?
 
Originally Posted By: JamesBond
As I said, it comes and goes on occasion, but its been at least a year I think.


Ahh, thanks for the follow up. I found your original thread that you referenced and saw that you had mentioned it comes back from time-to-time but being that the thread was a bit older, I wasn't sure if the frequency had changed.

I may just take it to Honda and see what they say. I know they're not going to want to replace the CMC again since it's a PITA to do. I just want record of my complaint and their recommendation/blessing on what type of grease to use. Ultimately, I would be OK with using something like sil glyde. I think I could get it into a small syringe and possibly attach a tube to the end. Stick the tube into the CMC with the pedal pressed 1/2-3/4 of the way then push it through the syringe. That's my thought anyway. If Honda offers to replace the part, well, I'd probably let 'em.
 
Well, figured I'd bump this thread with an update. I took it to Honda -- more than anything to have documentation of the issue should something happen *just* outside of warranty... anyway, they took a look, and greased up the pin behind the firewall that the CMC shaft connects to (the one that goes thru the firewall). He told me they used sil-glyde since it's more weatherproof (they use it on brake pads to keep them quiet). They're leaving the service request open for a couple of weeks to see if it comes back and will re-assess if it does.
 
I think your gonna find out its everything connected to the backside of the firewall that is giving you the issue. my prelude (1999), 240k on the clock has a creakey engagement for the clutch pedal. replaced the CMC with a OEM unit because of the rubber seal had parished. So I think the only fix for me is to buy a new (if available) clutch pedal setup. Silimiar to what you would buy second hand off someone if they were selling a 5 speed swap.
 
This is a very suitable product. VW and other European makes use it in long life high pressure applications. VW used to use this at the over pedal spring for the clutch pedal where you could get squeaks.

2003.jpg
 
Why don't you ask the dealership what the pink grease is?
It seems like that grease lasts the longest.

I've personally had my CMC replaced twice already, went through all the different "updated" CMC and it still occasionally happens.
 
Thanks for the replies all.

The dealership replaced the CMC again. This is the second time it's been done. We'll see how long it lasts this time. The tech I talked with said he was going to try to "pack it with grease" before putting it in. I don't know if he was able to do so or what kind of grease he may have used but it's quiet (for) now.
 
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