Cadillac 472/500 engine build, oil choice ??'s

[53' Stude]

So I am going to spend some of my 1month and 2 weeks vacation sometime before the snow flys building a Cadillac 500 striker engine with my dad and brother. This engine will be going into a 78' coupe De Ville also and drag raced. What oil/s would you folks recommend. Nun decided if we will put nitrous on this also. Thank you in advance.

 

[53' Stude]

Stroker not striker. Darn auto correct ;(

 

[CT8]

10w-30 HDEO or higher add level . What is the valve train spring pressures. I have seen those motors put out some power.

 

[53' Stude]

CT8, brother is getting parts from MTS and I don't know much yet. Send me a pm sometime this week and I'll hopefully know more bout what's goin on. Brother is on a caddy forum also

 

[901Memphis]

Mobil 1 High Mileage 10w40

 

[Merkava_4]

1. Run 20 minutes on SAE 30
2. Drain oil
3. Refill with SAE 30 and run 300 miles
4. Drain oil
5. Refill with Mobil Super 5000 20W-50 or equivalent service station oil

DO NOT USE ANYTHING ELSE.

These thin oil guys know nothing about vintage Cadillac engines.

 

[Sunnyinhollister]

Before you can get any real answers what cam, lifters, and springs are being used? What does the manufacturer recommend?

For a break in oil look to Joe Gibbs. After that it will depend on lifter type and valve spring pressures.

 

[chainblu]

If you are building it yourself, I assume you are already versed in break-in procedures, etc.

I say: big cam and going racing, I'd use a racing oil.
Valvoline's VR-1 would be a good choice.

 

[901Memphis]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
1. Run 20 minutes on SAE 30
2. Drain oil
3. Refill with SAE 30 and run 300 miles
4. Drain oil
5. Refill with Mobil Super 5000 20W-50 or equivalent service station oil

DO NOT USE ANYTHING ELSE.

These thin oil guys know nothing about vintage Cadillac engines.



Because you know what bearings he is using and the clearances for this engine right?

 

[Merkava_4]

Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Because you know what bearings he is using and the clearances for this engine right?


Because I'm fully capable of building that engine which you are not.

 

[901Memphis]

Yes let's just use 20w50 in everything!

 

[Merkava_4]

No not everything, just 425/472/500 Cadillac engines.

 

[OVERKILL]

You converting it to roller or staying flat tappet? Hydraulic or solid?

 

[turtlevette]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
You converting it to roller or staying flat tappet? Hydraulic or solid?


Roller retrofits are crazy expensive and less reliable. There might not even be one for a Caddy. The area you gain under the curve is not worth it. If he just wanted to go fast, a Caddy is not the choice, nor is a 5500 pound car.

But darn cool...

 

[53' Stude]

Guys and OVERKILL: it will have a MTS(Maximum Torque Specialties) cam and valve train. Forged Pistons, and crank. Brother said he is pondering some M1 0w40 or even M1 15w50. It will be his drag car also. I'll pass info along as I get it

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
You converting it to roller or staying flat tappet? Hydraulic or solid?


Roller retrofits are crazy expensive and less reliable. There might not even be one for a Caddy. The area you gain under the curve is not worth it. If he just wanted to go fast, a Caddy is not the choice, nor is a 5500 pound car.

But darn cool...



I'd argue the less reliable part

But yes, they are expensive, though certainly not what I'd call "crazy expensive". I've been involved in two retrofit builds, one was an SBF in an '85 Mustang, the other was in an S10 with a built SBC. The cost was about the same for both of them, the expense being the link-bar lifters and the more expensive camshaft. Both were hydraulic roller conversions.

I like roller retrofits because the camshaft lifespan is essentially increased to indefinite barring a roller failure, which, in my experience, is something quite rare. It also eliminates the "OMG, I need 40 billion PPM of ZDDP or my camshaft will eat itself" concern that some seem to have

Howard makes roller conversion link-bar lifters for this application:
http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/hrs-91462/overview/make/cadillac

At $429 they aren't badly priced.

The catch is you need to buy either a custom grind or the same brand of camshaft (as Howards seems to be the only one who makes roller stuff for this engine):
http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/hrs-520055-12/overview/make/cadillac
http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/hrs-521125-10/overview/make/cadillac
http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/hrs-522105-10/overview/make/cadillac

Which is $490.00, so you are basically $1K into just the cam and lifters, vs 1/3rd that for a hydraulic flat tappet. Depending on the cost of the total build, this may or may not be significant

 

[turtlevette]

The aftermarket roller stuff by its nature is more aggressive with much higher spring pressures. I used to hang out on the corvette forum a lot. Many of these guys running retrofits were wondering how many cruise-ins they could go to before having to replace lifters, like under 10k miles. The needle bearings in these things burn up, the bars wear out and allow a lifter to walk. They pit. All kinds of problems.

 

[RoadRaceJosh]

Originally Posted By: car51
Guys and OVERKILL: it will have a MTS(Maximum Torque Specialties) cam and valve train. Forged Pistons, and crank. Brother said he is pondering some M1 0w40 or even M1 15w50. It will be his drag car also. I'll pass info along as I get it


Solid choices on the oil. I'd favor the 0W-40 if the car is trailered to the track and the bearing clearances are reasonable.

What rods will be used? I'd replace those before the crank. I would also take the time to radius the oil pump passages and make sure the passage alignment to the block is good. The Cad doesn't have the greatest oiling system as it was never meant to spin very fast so some attention to detail is warranted.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: turtlevette
The aftermarket roller stuff by its nature is more aggressive with much higher spring pressures. I used to hang out on the corvette forum a lot. Many of these guys running retrofits were wondering how many cruise-ins they could go to before having to replace lifters, like under 10k miles. The needle bearings in these things burn up, the bars wear out and allow a lifter to walk. They pit. All kinds of problems.



Wonder what they were using? We used the Comp lifters IIRC and had no issues. Cams were in the "medium" range with durations @0.050 being 230/240-ish, lift in the 500-550 range. The one in the SBF (which has plenty of miles on it now) is .550/553 and 232/241 or something along those lines.

Many guys in the SBF scene (myself included) used the factory roller lifters with much more aggressive camshafts with zero issues. I ran the TFS #1 (220/230 .499/510) for years with my stock lifters which had like 100,000 miles on them at the time. They are still in the engine. I ran it with 1.7 rockers, which increased the lift to .530/542 and Comp springs that were north of 400lbs open. The stock lifters limit you to around .550 lift, anything more than that, you need the link-bar style that we ran in the '85.

The SBC has a Comp XE-series cam in it, a bit more aggressive than the TFS#1, it is still in it AFAIK, he's probably put 40K miles on it so far, no issues with the cam or lifters.

 

[53' Stude]

Thanks OVERKILL, I'll keep you updated