'04 Honda Odyssey oil leak after engine re-seal

[92saturnsl2]

I bought an '04 Odyssey a couple months ago and soon after discovered that it had a bad head gasket. It was also leaking oil profusely at what seemed like the rear main, so I opted to pull the block out of the van while I had the heads off to tackle seals and gaskets. I used all new seals (front crank seal, rear main, etc.) and for the oil pan, oil pump, and rear cover I used Permatex RTV. The front & rear covers I used RED high-temp, and for the oil pan I used the black stuff (just happened to be what I had at the time). New timing belt, water pump, slew of other stuff. Was not a quick project to say the least.

Finally got the van fired up yesterday and it runs like new, which it ought to after a $430 valve job on the heads, and all new gaskets/seals. I ran the van for 20 minutes or so, and I was floored when I noticed a puddle of oil underneath the passenger side of the vehicle. Looking up, it's dripping down the oil pan on the pass. side, pretty quickly I might add. It was a near steady drip, not a stream by any means. I can see oil directly behind the crank pulley, but it appears the lion's share of the leak is coming down the oil pan, definitely from above the oil pan seal, about an inch back from the crank pulley, but I can't tell where from. My best guess would be the oil pump, but I can't be sure. About the worst place it could be leaking, IMO.

Are there any common leaks that people experience when redoing these seals? I was pretty darn thorough, and took my time, so this has me stumped. Will I have to pull the whole engine out again for repair? For all this work, I left the subframe in place (I don't have a lift or the means to get the car real high) and pulled the engine out the top.

 

[Trav]

The oil filter mounting pad will leak if not tight or you used the old seal or it slipped when installing. Oil pressure sender can get knocked during install or removal.
Did you use Honda Bond on the pan? All leaks can be repaired in the van without pulling the engine or tranny except the rear main.

You may have knocked the front crank seal putting the damper on. If you cant pinpoint it use a dye and UV light to locate it.

 

[CT8]

Look for where the oil is leaking rather that posting to ask what to do.

 

[92saturnsl2]

Originally Posted By: Trav
The oil filter mounting pad will leak if not tight or you used the old seal or it slipped when installing. Oil pressure sender can get knocked during install or removal.
Did you use Honda Bond on the pan? All leaks can be repaired in the van without pulling the engine or tranny except the rear main.

You may have knocked the front crank seal putting the damper on. If you cant pinpoint it use a dye and UV light to locate it.


Thanks, your response was quite helpful. I used Permatex gasket maker for all the seals wherein a pre-made seal was not available. That's the rear seal cover, oil pump & oil pan. I used the red high-temp stuff for everything but the oil pan, which I used the lower-temp black stuff. The oil pan seems solid, I suspect it's something behind the crank pulley @ the oil pump that's leaking. Pretty sure I got the front seal on okay, but who knows. I won't know for sure until I pull off the crank pulley, belts & timing cover(s) this weekend.

How does one do work on the oil pump without pulling the block out? I suspect the oil pan has to come out (in order to get the oil pump off to reseal), but it seems partially shielded by the subframe where you can't get to many of the bolts. If you could elaborate as to how this is done, that would be most helpful! Thanks again.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: 92saturnsl2
Originally Posted By: Trav
The oil filter mounting pad will leak if not tight or you used the old seal or it slipped when installing. Oil pressure sender can get knocked during install or removal.
Did you use Honda Bond on the pan? All leaks can be repaired in the van without pulling the engine or tranny except the rear main.

You may have knocked the front crank seal putting the damper on. If you cant pinpoint it use a dye and UV light to locate it.


Thanks, your response was quite helpful. I used Permatex gasket maker for all the seals wherein a pre-made seal was not available. That's the rear seal cover, oil pump & oil pan. I used the red high-temp stuff for everything but the oil pan, which I used the lower-temp black stuff. The oil pan seems solid, I suspect it's something behind the crank pulley @ the oil pump that's leaking. Pretty sure I got the front seal on okay, but who knows. I won't know for sure until I pull off the crank pulley, belts & timing cover(s) this weekend.

How does one do work on the oil pump without pulling the block out? I suspect the oil pan has to come out (in order to get the oil pump off to reseal), but it seems partially shielded by the subframe where you can't get to many of the bolts. If you could elaborate as to how this is done, that would be most helpful! Thanks again.


You have to drop the pan and screen but its doable in the car. The oil pump uses some o rings and preformed seal always use new ones. Use Honda Bond on the pan, these are notorious leakers with anything else.

This is how it looks doing the job with the engine in the car.

Edit: make sure you grease every seal lip before installing pulleys through them, Vaseline works real well and doesn’t contaminate the oil or damage the seals.

 

[92saturnsl2]

The oil pump on mine did not come with a preformed seal-- it used the same Hondabond stuff that the oil pan had. That said, I took the timing covers & belt off, removed the crankshaft position sensor & crank timing pulley and discovered that the leak is coming from the front crankshaft seal, in the middle of the oil pump.

Shining a flashlight in there, I can pretty much see through the seal on the outer edges-- there was one spot where the lip still had contact (you could clearly see it), about 1 centimeter long. Not sure what happened here, but the seal came pre-greased, and I had no trouble installing the oil pump over the crank snout.

Is it possible to replace the seal without removing the oil pump and pan? Looking at it, I don't see why a person couldn't drive a few small screws into the old seal and use pliers or some other tool to back the seal out. Then drive the new seal in over the crank snout, the same way you'd install one with oil pump on a workbench. Maybe this is a bad idea, but I cringe over the thought of removing the oil pan, which seems quite difficult to remove given that the subframe is right underneath one side.

Thoughts? Any and all input would be much appreciated.

 

[The_Eric]

It's entirely do-able. Screws are what you use if you don't have the correct tool. If you choose to use screws, be very carefull not to nick the crank! One will almost always get the job done.

This is an example of the correct tool.

 

[kschachn]

I have the tool that The_Eric links, and it works very well for removing seals with the shaft in place. It won't nick the shaft nor the seal socket.

 

[Trav]

Use the tool eric linked to. You can use screws but you risk nicking the crank if your not careful (you can use a sleeve if you do to repair it if you do).
On these engines and many other engines installing the pump with the new seal in the housing before it is bolted up can result in loosing the lip spring on the inside of the seal. I would bet thats what happened.

Always install the crank seal after the oil pump is in tightened then the seal. Use a thin coat Permatex high tack (red brush on) on the outside of the seal when installing it.
It wont harden like Indian head making it easier to remove next time but it will prevent a leak around the outside of the seal.