Gumout Q&A - GDI fuel system additives

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wwillson

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Edit: The answers have been posted here: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/gumout-gdi-qa-june-2015/


Gumout Performance Additives would like to thank you for the great interaction you had with us in our last Q&A session. Hopefully, we were able to provide valuable insights into our products and educate on fuel additives in general.

In this next session, the focus will be on gasoline direct injection (GDI) technology and some of the performance issues that arise from these systems. While this fuel delivery system can add power and increased fuel economy over many of the port injected systems, some of the key components are now either subjected to extreme environments or they are now isolated from where the fuel is introduced to the combustion area of the engine.

For example, direct injectors are located in the combustion chamber, not located in the intake port. The extreme heat and pressure found in the combustion chamber cooks carbon deposits onto the tip of the direct injector causing fuel spray pattern problems. In addition, now that the valves are no longer being sprayed with detergents (either in the fuel itself or in higher doses from fuel additives) by the port fuel injector they begin to accumulate carbon build up through recirculated exhaust via the EGR/PCV valves.

However, there are solutions to these problems. Some take a bit more DIY expertise than others, or require use of more potent additives, but we’d like to open the topic up for discussion and share with you what we know.

Beginning today, the thread will be open for question submissions until 10 p.m. ET on Sunday June 14th, at which time we will send them back to our full team of scientists, engineers and brand representatives to provide answers to as many of the questions as we can within a few weeks.

We are extremely excited to provide you with this service, but do have a few requests:

1. Please use this forum ONLY to submit questions. If you have previously posted questions on other areas of the site we will do our best to find them and provide answers, but your best bet is to repost the question in this thread.

2. Please understand that there will be some questions that we will not be able to answer. Some of our formulation information is proprietary, such as how much of a certain additive we put in our products, and can only provide feedback on our areas of expertise.

3. Please understand that we will not speculate on the products of our competitors, but we may be able provide you with ways to determine what they may have in their formulations. Not all fuel additives are created equal, so question claims and benefits and demand more information on what is in the product, what tests were used to determine efficacy and what were those results.

We look forward to your questions and thank you for your involvement!
 
The most important question is there going to be a product that (not maybe or somewhat) thst takes care of the intake valve deposit issue, that can be used without extensive engine disassembly. The rest is addressed as far as have seen.
 
Originally Posted By: Dyusik
The most important question is there going to be a product that (not maybe or somewhat) thst takes care of the intake valve deposit issue, that can be used without extensive engine disassembly. The rest is addressed as far as have seen.


And that won't void manufacturer warranties or dislodge particles that will damage the turbocharger. As Ford (for one) doesn't seem to believe there's any way to clean deposits without turbo damage absent removing the cylinder head, this seems a bit of a challenge.
 
Originally Posted By: Justin251
I'm interested in this. Do we know if the deposits are from oil?


Has to be. In Gdi, nothing goes by the intake valve other than air and pcv gasses ( which contains oil).
 
Originally Posted By: spasm3
Originally Posted By: Justin251
I'm interested in this. Do we know if the deposits are from oil?


Has to be. In Gdi, nothing goes by the intake valve other than air and pcv gasses ( which contains oil).


Not true - EGR goes the same way. Lots of people think the deposits are caused by oil vapour from PCV mixing with the dry soot from EGR to make a sticky carbon paste.

VTA is the answer, not additives.
 
Originally Posted By: Olas
Originally Posted By: spasm3
Originally Posted By: Justin251
I'm interested in this. Do we know if the deposits are from oil?


Has to be. In Gdi, nothing goes by the intake valve other than air and pcv gasses ( which contains oil).


Not true - EGR goes the same way. Lots of people think the deposits are caused by oil vapour from PCV mixing with the dry soot from EGR to make a sticky carbon paste.

VTA is the answer, not additives.


Yes i totally forgot about egr.
 
How about a catch can with a small tube that drips back into the oil pan or even valve cover somehow? Pcv is meant to remove excess air pressure not oil.

Back on topic.
Any current cell phone can take high definition pictures nowadays. Given that information is the gumout website going to feature HD pictures? Not ones taken with a Kodak 35mm and then scanned a reprocessed somehow. Also links to studies in complete pdf form would be nice, rather than a few carefully selected percentages.
The more honest and straightforward you are the more likely I will be to support you .
 
In regards to the delivery of fuel additives to the intake valves of a DI engine; what is Gumout's opinion of a fine mist introduced via throttle body, at a steady rate while the motor is being idled? Better, worse, or no difference than induced via vacuum, i.e. brake booster?
 
Originally Posted By: dkryan
What is "VTA?"


Venting to atmosphere. I subscribe to the logic that if no oil or carbon or soot goes through my inlet manifold there will be nothing to form deposits on my valves.
 
Originally Posted By: Brybo86
How about a catch can with a small tube that drips back into the oil pan or even valve cover somehow? Pcv is meant to remove excess air pressure not oil.

Back on topic.
Any current cell phone can take high definition pictures nowadays. Given that information is the gumout website going to feature HD pictures? Not ones taken with a Kodak 35mm and then scanned a reprocessed somehow. Also links to studies in complete pdf form would be nice, rather than a few carefully selected percentages.
The more honest and straightforward you are the more likely I will be to support you .


The excess air pressure moving through the PCV carries water vapour and oil most along with the blowby gasses. Catch cans with returns have been used but the separation is never 100% and sending contents of the can (which look just like head gasket mayonnaise) back into the sump or valve cover doesn't seem like a very attractive option from a cleanliness POV.
A can with a vent to atmosphere is the least attractive option, a road draft tube is slightly better, venting the crankcase to the exhaust is the best option.
 
Originally Posted By: Olas
Originally Posted By: dkryan
What is "VTA?"


Venting to atmosphere. I subscribe to the logic that if no oil or carbon or soot goes through my inlet manifold there will be nothing to form deposits on my valves.


Thanks
 
What is the proposed mechanism for any cleaner additive to help maintain intake valve cleanliness? If any cleaner survives the combustion process, how is it not an added hydrocarbon that affects the cat converter, and how is this not a violation of the emissions regulations and clean air act?
 
Which Gumout products are specifically recommended for GDI? What characteristics of GDI do the recommended Gumout products help? Which Gumout product is best for GDI systems?
 
Originally Posted By: Dyusik
The most important question is there going to be a product that (not maybe or somewhat) thst takes care of the intake valve deposit issue, that can be used without extensive engine disassembly.....
+1

Does Gumout have any plans for a relatively easy and not too expensive DIY one(or two) man process to clean or regularly maintain GDI intake valves.

I've seen the aerosol spray can made by a competitor but that seems an unwieldy and uneven dispensing process to me.

Another competitor has an straw-like attachment to the throttle body from the aerosol can that keeps the throttle body intake system intact/attached while the product is evenly dispensed over time. Not sure of that products effectiveness but a product/process like that would be preferable imo.

I'd be interested in a readily available product similar to the latter.
 
Thank you to all who participated by asking questions. We will have the answers back from Gumout in a couple weeks.

Thanks,

Wayne
 
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