9-hour standoff with an empty building

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Stelth

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This morning, San Diego PD had a 9 hour standoff with an empty building. There was a shooting at a local motorcycle club bar, and four people were shot. Police entered the bar and found two of the victims, according to news reports, and the other two transported themselves to local hospitals. One suspect fled on a motorcycle, but wrecked not too far away.

The part I don't understand about all of this is how you have a 9-hour standoff with an empty building. According to news reports, the police had already been inside the bar, and helped two of the victims get medical aid. Of course, the early news reports could be wrong. They also said that someone told police that there was another shooter in the bar. In any case they set up a perimeter and called SWAT in. I don't know what they did for the next 7 or so hours. Then they apparently sent robotic cameras in, and seeing no occupants, SWAT entered and confirmed that the building was empty.
 
What did you expect them to do. Drive a tank into the building and blow it up? Or just light it on fire? San Diego is not Baltimore.

The m/c gang is called the "Chosen Few" and their clubhouse is on 43rd near Market and everyone knows about the place.

I'm happy that the police were able to follow their procedures and take care of business and no one else was injured. They were able to keep things calm in a neighborhood that has had its problems. Job well done.
 
Originally Posted By: Stelth
The part I don't understand ...


I find it funny condescending when people that know nothing about police procedures criticize police procedures. Everyone's an expert these days...

Police have standoffs hundreds of times a year with empty buildings because the Intel was wrong and they would rather not shoot someone unnecessarily or be shot themselves.

At any rate, an after action report will be completed and the police swat team will improve their procedures and learn from any mistakes that might have been made.
 
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Originally Posted By: Stelth
The part I don't understand ...


I find it funny condescending when people that know nothing about police procedures criticize police procedures. Everyone's an expert these days...

Police have standoffs hundreds of times a year with empty buildings because the Intel was wrong and they would rather not shoot someone unnecessarily or be shot themselves.

At any rate, an after action report will be completed and the police swat team will improve their procedures and learn from any mistakes that might have been made.


I said I don't understand it. I don't. If you understand it, enlighten us.

On the other hand, recently in Chula Vista, the police had a 13-hour (IIRC) standoff with a man who had just shot his neighbor seventeen times with an AR-15. That I understand. They were able to talk him into releasing his family, but unfortunately, he ended up killing himself.
 
SWAT teams don't rush into a potential killzone unless they have good reason to do so.
 
Originally Posted By: Stelth


I said I don't understand it. I don't. If you understand it, enlighten us.



Bubbatime just told you, what is there NOT to understand?

Quote:
Police have standoffs hundreds of times a year with empty buildings because the Intel was wrong and they would rather not shoot someone unnecessarily or be shot themselves.
 
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People complain about the police when they are around but complain more when they are not there. I think cops do an A okay job and I never question them or their doings as long as they follow the law and constitution.
 
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
What did you expect them to do. Drive a tank into the building and blow it up? Or just light it on fire? San Diego is not Baltimore.

The m/c gang is called the "Chosen Few" and their clubhouse is on 43rd near Market and everyone knows about the place.

I'm happy that the police were able to follow their procedures and take care of business and no one else was injured. They were able to keep things calm in a neighborhood that has had its problems. Job well done.
=1. Bleeped if they DO or if they DON'T.
 
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Stelth,

The SWAT team should of knocked on the front door of building.
Maybe you'd offer to do it for them.
 
I may have gone off half-cocked on this one. I don't have quite the rosy view of police procedure that some of you evince, but I've been following the news reports on this one, and they're all over the place. It's safe to say that if the news people that were there don't know what happened, neither do I.
 
It could be worse.

Here, we have a prosecutor who doesn't appear to know what she's doing, and her team screws up cases right and left (and has to dismiss charges due to their own mistakes)... and a judge who is so unpredictable, he should be on lithium, or something to level his mood swings out.

There are worse things.
 
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Stelth,

The SWAT team should of knocked on the front door of building.
Maybe you'd offer to do it for them.


If I was part of SWAT team, yes I would.

No answer after knocking.... throw tear gas and flash bangs into building.
 
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Stelth,

The SWAT team should of knocked on the front door of building.
Maybe you'd offer to do it for them.


If I was part of SWAT team, yes I would.

No answer after knocking.... throw tear gas and flash bangs into building.


And you would be retrained or kicked off the team. You have a possible barricaded gunmen, that has already shot people, and you are going to go right up and knock on the front door??!! Its Special Weapons and Tactics. The tactics part is to preserve as many lives as possible (suspect and officers) with Tactics learned over the past 40 years that make that happen. Ideally you get the barricaded person on the phone, and talk to them. The longer they are talking, the less likely they are to kill themselves, kill others, or commit suicide by cop.

Trained negotiators are trained to keep them talking and to minimize their actions as trivial so they surrender peacefully.
 
Its a no win situation. I cant imagine the hype of having to perform such a duty. I just watch the news and try to make sense of it all, or at least some of it.
 
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
But the last thing I want is a Hollywood style shootout with suspect(s).

Then you don't knock on a lunatic's door like you're delivering a pizza.
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Stelth
I may have gone off half-cocked on this one. I don't have quite the rosy view of police procedure that some of you evince, but I've been following the news reports on this one, and they're all over the place. It's safe to say that if the news people that were there don't know what happened, neither do I.
So what law enforcement training and experience do you have, Mr. Expert?
 
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
OK, maybe I would of violated SWAT protocols....

But the last thing I want is a Hollywood style shootout with suspect(s).
Playing Dirty Harry is how people get killed. But, you watched the movies so you're the expert.
 
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