10k OCI filters

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Originally Posted By: jk_636
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the "full write up."


You dont have to read it. This started off between Zeeosix and myself. I agreed to use an FU and then see for myself if it stood up to all the hype. This is what being "objective" is all about.


How would scientifically determine it didn't stand up to all the hype? You're already obviously biased against Fram, so tell me how you're gonna be fair about this comparison?
 
Currently i run 3-5k oil change intervals, but have been running my Fram Ultra very long. I am debating on whether or not to push it past 15k with my severe service intervals and see how it held up. The filter is oversized and i never touch it when i do an oil change i just drain the pan and refill. I think I'm at 11k miles now, but would have to check my logs.
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
The Ultra is good for 15K; at least in my application and usage.


Fram specifically says on their website for the Ultra:
"Ultimate dual-layer synthetic media provides up to 15,000 miles of engine protection."

Of course there is head room in their spec, so on engines that are pretty new and clean and well taken care of it could probably go longer.

I used low end filters such as Fram Extra Guard, STP, Purolator Classic ... and mid-range filters such as Bosch Premium, Motorcraft ... in my LS400 for 1 year up to 18-22k miles. I did add 1/2 quart synthetic oil every 4k, when I extract oil from dipstick tube I didn't any unusual particles in the oil.

The oil filters when turned upside down for several days still had a lot of oil in it, the ADBV's were still functional.

The engine is north of 370k miles and running well. This proves that almost any filter, even the cheapest ones, can be used in a clean engine for much longer than 10-15k miles.
 
I'm not calling you a liar, but that is quite a bold statement.

There is no doubt you could leave a filter on that long, but I would question the integrity of the media and its capability for filtration

You don't have any pictures of those filters do you? I would love to see them.
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
The Ultra is good for 15K; at least in my application and usage.


Fram specifically says on their website for the Ultra:
"Ultimate dual-layer synthetic media provides up to 15,000 miles of engine protection."

Of course there is head room in their spec, so on engines that are pretty new and clean and well taken care of it could probably go longer.

I used low end filters such as Fram Extra Guard, STP, Purolator Classic ... and mid-range filters such as Bosch Premium, Motorcraft ... in my LS400 for 1 year up to 18-22k miles. I did add 1/2 quart synthetic oil every 4k, when I extract oil from dipstick tube I didn't any unusual particles in the oil.

The oil filters when turned upside down for several days still had a lot of oil in it, the ADBV's were still functional.

The engine is north of 370k miles and running well. This proves that almost any filter, even the cheapest ones, can be used in a clean engine for much longer than 10-15k miles.


I'm running tough guards(motomaster re-badged) for 2 10000 mile intervals on my known clean engines and upon dissection the media has some loading in between the folds and the adbv is still soft and pliable.
So I for one have no doubt you're being honest as it mimics my experiences as well.
10000 miles is nothing today. If a filter can't runnthat interval then it's junk
 
Originally Posted By: jk_636
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: jk_636
The only agenda here is the one perpetuated by those who won't stop until everyone uses the ultra and those that don't conform are either belittled, banned or chased off of this forum by continual harassment.

Hopefully one day this forum will get back on track, and members will respect each other and engage in productive discourse. That was what brought myself and many more members to this site in the first place.


It's pretty clear that you are a perpetual disruptive member on the board. You keep arguing that things never happened when there is clear evidence it surely did. It gets rather ridiculous, but it is entertaining.
wink.gif



I dont respond to personal attacks and I am revoking your filter cutting certificate.

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Clevy
So the ultra uses the same media,with similar specs and made by the same company with a different paint job but the RP is better because it costs more.

Notice how this got completely ignored?
wink.gif



It was not ignored. It was already established that they are made of completely different materials to different specifications.

Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
Originally Posted By: Garak
Surely he can't plan on cutting them open, being unqualified and all that.


200_s.gif


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Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Does up to mean "at least" or "at most"?
smile.gif



Obviously at most. I just read an article recently about peoples warranties being revoked because they were having engine damage secondary to prolonged OCIs. I believe it was hyundai that was denying warranty repairs due to extended OCIs. So go ahead guys, keep going 15k. Especially in todays Direct Inject systems. DI+Extended OCI= Dead motor.



So which of those engines in your sig is direct injection. Since fuel dillution is so hard on filters,which is the only problem I've seen potentially with direct injection,which of yours is going to suffer.


I do thank you jk
You've taken over for poor Joseph(ght) here.

Except we liked him.
 
So I have to have a DI vehicle to understand the consequences of the extended oci in its application.

Perhaps the only way to understand a disease like for instance, HIV is to have it?

Get real.

When I get off I will post that article and watch everyone here squirm trying to find anyway they can to try and deny the inevitable consequences of running ridiculous OCIs in today's vehicles.
 
Originally Posted By: jk_636
So I have to have a DI vehicle to understand the consequences of the extended oci in its application.

Perhaps the only way to understand a disease like for instance, HIV is to have it?

Get real.


Originally Posted By: jk_636

I am a long time Marvel Mystery Oil supporter. If someone doesn't share the same view, I am always glad to discuss it. Having said that, if you havent ever used MMO, and/or the only experience you have with it is second hand info, then you probably shouldn't participate in this subforum.
 
Originally Posted By: jk_636
Notice how this got completely ignored?
wink.gif



It was not ignored. It was already established that they are made of completely different materials to different specifications.[/quote]
You're diverting, which is only a step up from ignoring. "Completely" is a bit of a weasel word here. Slightly different canister thickness, somewhat differing media, and a marginally different efficiency rating are truly completely different. But, how different are two high end synthetic filters with superior filtration and flow, made by the same company for exactly the same application?

I bet they're a lot more similar to each other than are the Purolator Classic to the Purolator Synthetic, or the Fram Orange can to the Fram Ultra.

Originally Posted By: jk_636
I just read an article recently about peoples warranties being revoked because they were having engine damage secondary to prolonged OCIs. I believe it was hyundai that was denying warranty repairs due to extended OCIs.

Do you have a link for this? I'm not being argumentative, that would just be an interesting read.
 
I wasn't the one who said they were ignored. That was quoted from someone else. I hope you understand that.

And I am just now getting off. When I get home I will try and find it. It was being discussed on a local car talk show in Houston a couple weeks ago.
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR

The oil filters when turned upside down for several days still had a lot of oil in it, the ADBV's were still functional.

The engine is north of 370k miles and running well. This proves that almost any filter, even the cheapest ones, can be used in a clean engine for much longer than 10-15k miles.


How does that work? If the filter is off the car base down the oil should drain out to about the baseplate, or the bottom of the filter media, unless the media is plugged up.
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
This proves that almost any filter, even the cheapest ones, can be used in a clean engine for much longer than 10-15k miles.


Much of how long you can run a filter will depend on your climate, too. I don't think you'll (want to) get 15k+ on a Quaker State if you run it through the winter months in the colder areas. This was on a clean, properly running 2.4L Twin-Cam I owned a few years ago. Those run during spring/summer were not as wavy. The ADBV failed on two of them after 6k, too:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...8,5#Post2869851
 
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR

The oil filters when turned upside down for several days still had a lot of oil in it, the ADBV's were still functional.

The engine is north of 370k miles and running well. This proves that almost any filter, even the cheapest ones, can be used in a clean engine for much longer than 10-15k miles.


How does that work? If the filter is off the car base down the oil should drain out to about the baseplate, or the bottom of the filter media, unless the media is plugged up.


Seems to me you proved your filters were used way too long and were plugged up, and good engines can run a long time even with unfiltered oil.
 
Originally Posted By: jk_636
So go ahead guys, keep going 15k. Especially in todays Direct Inject systems. DI+Extended OCI= Dead motor.
Who recommended a 15K OCI in a DI engine? No one that I know of and there has been a plethora of information posted by people like Jim Allen, Doug Hilliary, and Dave Newton that shows when used and monitored properly, extended OCIs produce less wear metals per mile. Please post your article so that all of us may learn something new.
 
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR

The oil filters when turned upside down for several days still had a lot of oil in it, the ADBV's were still functional.

The engine is north of 370k miles and running well. This proves that almost any filter, even the cheapest ones, can be used in a clean engine for much longer than 10-15k miles.


How does that work? If the filter is off the car base down the oil should drain out to about the baseplate, or the bottom of the filter media, unless the media is plugged up.


Read my first post in this thread, and I how how I did the ADBV test. This filter was not plugged up. Other members have done this same test and get the same result.

The oil stays in the filter and does not leak out of the center tube because there is not enough gravitational force to over come surface tension and make it leak through the media. If you don't believe this works, go buy a new filter, fill it up with oil and do the test yourself.

ADBV Test
 
Originally Posted By: jk_636
I wasn't the one who said they were ignored. That was quoted from someone else. I hope you understand that.

That was me screwing up quoting. I was replying to what you had actually typed, which was the following:

Originally Posted By: jk_636
It was not ignored. It was already established that they are made of completely different materials to different specifications.


Originally Posted By: jk_636
And I am just now getting off. When I get home I will try and find it. It was being discussed on a local car talk show in Houston a couple weeks ago.

Sounds good, that'll be interesting. OT, but for those of you who listen to Sirius XM in the States or in Canada, is it just me or do they always have reruns of the call in shows from 1990-1 on the air?
 
Originally Posted By: jk_636
I'm not calling you a liar, but that is quite a bold statement.

There is no doubt you could leave a filter on that long, but I would question the integrity of the media and its capability for filtration

You don't have any pictures of those filters do you? I would love to see them.

No, I don't have any picture of the spin-on oil filter of the LS400, I never cut open any spin-on filter either.

One cartridge oil filter of my E430 had been used for 2 OCI's of 10-11k miles for a total of 20-21k miles, it was in perfect condition and no debris between pleats. I was in process of moving so I tossed it in trash can. I normally use 1 oil filter for 1 OCI of up to 13k miles in E430, but I tried it for 2 OCI's once.

I have no reason to post wrong information or exaggerate anything here. I believe oil filter is not that importance in a clean engine, there is no much debris to filter if you have good air filter and no hole in the air tube. Of the two filters air filter is much more importance in keeping your engine healthy.
 
Originally Posted By: Virtuoso
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
This proves that almost any filter, even the cheapest ones, can be used in a clean engine for much longer than 10-15k miles.


Much of how long you can run a filter will depend on your climate, too. I don't think you'll (want to) get 15k+ on a Quaker State if you run it through the winter months in the colder areas. This was on a clean, properly running 2.4L Twin-Cam I owned a few years ago. Those run during spring/summer were not as wavy. The ADBV failed on two of them after 6k, too:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...8,5#Post2869851

I agree. I should state that in a moderate climate such as So Cal and the car is running at around 2000-2500 RPM most of the time, oil and oil filter is very easily extended beyond the recommendation interval.

The car is running in a low stress environment such that it still has original valve cover gasket as of now, water pump failed the first time after 20 years and 360k miles, upper radiator hose and radiator didn't need to be replaced after 19 years 350k miles.
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR

The oil filters when turned upside down for several days still had a lot of oil in it, the ADBV's were still functional.

The engine is north of 370k miles and running well. This proves that almost any filter, even the cheapest ones, can be used in a clean engine for much longer than 10-15k miles.


How does that work? If the filter is off the car base down the oil should drain out to about the baseplate, or the bottom of the filter media, unless the media is plugged up.


Read my first post in this thread, and I how how I did the ADBV test. This filter was not plugged up. Other members have done this same test and get the same result.

The oil stays in the filter and does not leak out of the center tube because there is not enough gravitational force to over come surface tension and make it leak through the media. If you don't believe this works, go buy a new filter, fill it up with oil and do the test yourself.

ADBV Test

I stand corrected and didn't see the earlier post. I usually start at the back in long threads. But I have cut open a number of filters that stood draining, usually for months, and none of them had much oil in them, almost all drained out. Good filters of most all makes and with/without silicone adbvs. Then there is River Rats testing which was done by gravity through media. So this is the first I have learned that the surface tension of oil in filter media keeps it from flowing through media by gravity. My mistake. You are right in all ways.
 
Now that I think about it there is the well known and observed fact oil filters can be prefilled. If it was surface tension preventing oil from passing through the media, it works both directions. It also depends on oil viscosity and temperature, but there is no doubt oil flows through the media only by gravity. So maybe I am not so mistaken as charged, and the gurus here are still just guys figuring things out like everyone else. Maybe it is air lock holding the oil inside, but it is not surface tension.
 
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