what's up with gas prices?

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Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: Whimsey
Originally Posted By: lovcom
We drive a Prius C, that gets 62+ city, and 47+ hwy.

We don't care...let it go to $8, and we will laugh!!


Yeah, until what Oregon is testing for the "green" cars by charging them a per mile fee. This is done because the "green" cars are not paying their "fair share" for "road usage" because of lost tax revenue on less fuel sales. It'll only be a short time before this catches on in many states that need more revenue, I can name 50
grin.gif
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Whimsey



It is highly likely that no one will be laughing.

Another supremely ignorant post from the troll himself, Lovcom. Obviously his family uses nothing shipped by truck, eh? How about your AC man, your plumber, your electrician? Yet they are smarter than the average bear!

No one will be laughing. Fuel is the key to our economy, and even if you force everyone to go electric/hybrid/micro car or whatever, fuel that costs more drives everything upward...


Only a coward calls someone a "troll" just because that person has a difference of opinion.

I am laughing at you now.
 
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Originally Posted By: Garak
Gas prices aren't linear with oil prices; you know that, Grampi. When we had $14 a barrel oil, we didn't have gasoline at 1/4 of the price we do now, either. And when it was essentially double what it is now, we (at least you) weren't paying $6 a gallon.


They aren't directly linear, but they should go at least somewhat hand in hand...there certainly is no reason for gas to be anywhere near $3 right now, that's for sure...
 
Average regular gas in Orange County, California is $3.88. South Orange County is about 10-15 cents higher than average, stations near my house is slightly above $4.

You're lucky to have less than $3 gas.
 
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
I contend there is enough already collected from fuel taxes to take care of repairs and new construction. But the problems has been compounded in that they have wasted so much over the years instead of actually doing the repairs and construction needed, that they may not have enough now to play catch up, but they have had enough all along to stay on top of it. They just decided to use the money for their little pet projects that had nothing to do with actual road repair or construction. Why should I then be in full agreement that they need more money to make up for their lack of stewardship of the money I have already paid them?

I am older now and the children are all grown and gone, but this analogy works fine. If I give my child money to take care of paying for his school lunches and he then only uses 60% of that for lunches and blows the rest on other things, then he comes to me and then needs more because he does not have enough to cover the lunches for the rest of the time period, that is not my fault. Sorry, son, you are going to have to go without a lunch or two until the next time I give you money for school lunch. i am not going to agree to cover your incompetence. If I do this time, then the next time I give you lunch money, you will repeat this. No can do. You are on your own till the next time I give you money for school lunch.

When the American people realize that government was set up via the Constitution and not that the government is the one who wrote the Constitution, then they might come to realize that government is their employee and start acting like they are the employer. I doubt it. But I can dream can't I?


I couldn't agree more, a bridge they are building on I95 near me had a $100m "mistake" that was largely the states fault. Oh well, never a word in the papers either.

$100m could pave a few miles of roads...

The fed's are giving the state federal funds to build a bridge. The feds also paid the state about $4m to review the bridge design. The state paid some idiot to review the prints and pocketed most of the $4m for pet projects I am sure.

So they start building the bridge and guess what their is a design defect! Which if the plans were properly reviewed would have been caught.

$100m+++ and counting, but its only money.

In reality if the system didn't take care of its own their would be some government employees going to jail right now.

Now they have the balls to want to set up tolls in my state because they are out of money, hmm seems $100m would have helped a bit...but wait the same people who want tolls are probably the ones who stole the original $4m...
 
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Originally Posted By: grampi
Get the long haul semis off the highways by shipping more product by rail and our roads will last much, much longer...which would also mean a huge reduction in the cost of maintaining our roads...


I agree! I would love to see all those trucks restricted from the roads! Then when everyone is screaming because they can't get anything overnight, there are massive shortages at the stores, and a host of other issues, I can start up my semi truck that has been sitting beside my barn and charge so much to deliver folk's goods to them I will be swimming in the revenue.

Rail is virtually at capacity now. There just isn't all that much available left. Still requires trucks to deliver from the rail yards to the stores anyway. And most of that is around major metro areas where most of the roads stink. 80% of air freight is moved by truck. No rail to do that. Shut those trucks down and see if you get what you want from Amazon or Ebay when you want it. Go down to your favorite auto parts outlet, and if they have to order something you will be waiting weeks. After all, the rail has to bring it to the rail yard, a truck has to take that container to the auto parts distribution center, the freight gets sorted and shelved, then orders are filled and put on trucks from the DC to the stores. Take all the trucks out of that and see how happy you are then. And those regional trucks are far more numerous than any OTR truck numbers. And they are the ones more often than not that get into bumper car situations with the smaller vehicles. Check with the FMCSA.

But I fully support your idea! Please call your congressman, senator and get the ball rolling. Been wanting to shut the truck down for a few months anyway. When it will be time to get back to work, folks will be clearing the highways to allow me unrestricted access for my deliveries. this is going to be great!
 
Originally Posted By: grampi
They aren't directly linear, but they should go at least somewhat hand in hand...there certainly is no reason for gas to be anywhere near $3 right now, that's for sure...

They do, but you're well aware there are more things involved than just crude prices. Summer travelling season has begun. I'm sure there are cost differences between summer and winter blends. I've also been informed of a bit of a temporary shortfall in U.S. refining capacity.
 
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Originally Posted By: grampi
Get the long haul semis off the highways by shipping more product by rail and our roads will last much, much longer...which would also mean a huge reduction in the cost of maintaining our roads...


I agree! I would love to see all those trucks restricted from the roads! Then when everyone is screaming because they can't get anything overnight, there are massive shortages at the stores, and a host of other issues, I can start up my semi truck that has been sitting beside my barn and charge so much to deliver folk's goods to them I will be swimming in the revenue.

Rail is virtually at capacity now. There just isn't all that much available left. Still requires trucks to deliver from the rail yards to the stores anyway. And most of that is around major metro areas where most of the roads stink. 80% of air freight is moved by truck. No rail to do that. Shut those trucks down and see if you get what you want from Amazon or Ebay when you want it. Go down to your favorite auto parts outlet, and if they have to order something you will be waiting weeks. After all, the rail has to bring it to the rail yard, a truck has to take that container to the auto parts distribution center, the freight gets sorted and shelved, then orders are filled and put on trucks from the DC to the stores. Take all the trucks out of that and see how happy you are then. And those regional trucks are far more numerous than any OTR truck numbers. And they are the ones more often than not that get into bumper car situations with the smaller vehicles. Check with the FMCSA.

But I fully support your idea! Please call your congressman, senator and get the ball rolling. Been wanting to shut the truck down for a few months anyway. When it will be time to get back to work, folks will be clearing the highways to allow me unrestricted access for my deliveries. this is going to be great!


Why is it whenever you and I have this discussion, you always exaggerate and misstate things?

First off, when I say more goods need to be shipped by rail, I also mean that railways need to be expanded nationwide to accommodate more rail shipments. Secondly, you always exaggerate by saying people will have to wait for weeks to get their goods if shipped by rail. That simply isn't true. We're talking about a difference of a couple days in shipping time, not weeks. A little planning ahead will alleviate that problem. Lastly, you always act like I'm advocating for the removal of ALL semis from our roads...I'm am not saying that, and I have never said that. What I am saying is that we could very easily get rid of most of the LONG HAUL truck traffic...those goods could be shipped by rail...I realize there will always be a need for semis to ship from the rail yards to the final destinations...quit exaggerating and misstating what I said to make your point...
 
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Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: grampi
They aren't directly linear, but they should go at least somewhat hand in hand...there certainly is no reason for gas to be anywhere near $3 right now, that's for sure...

They do, but you're well aware there are more things involved than just crude prices. Summer travelling season has begun. I'm sure there are cost differences between summer and winter blends. I've also been informed of a bit of a temporary shortfall in U.S. refining capacity.


Traveling season, seasonal blends, and refinery issues are all just excuses to raise prices. None of these things causes any actual shortages. Have you ever gone to a gas station only to find out they don't have any gas to sell you?
 
Originally Posted By: grampi

Traveling season, seasonal blends, and refinery issues are all just excuses to raise prices. None of these things causes any actual shortages. Have you ever gone to a gas station only to find out they don't have any gas to sell you?


You just answered your own question/ rant.

How high do prices have to go in Ohio for them to drag fuel west to your station from an east coast refinery that's doing fine instead of the typical west coast refinery that's shut down?

If gas hits $3, will people reduce driving by 5% to meet the 5% reduction in production?

When and where are you complaining when they have to dump gasoline under cost because of a logistical snafu, eg, last winter?
 
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: grampi

Traveling season, seasonal blends, and refinery issues are all just excuses to raise prices. None of these things causes any actual shortages. Have you ever gone to a gas station only to find out they don't have any gas to sell you?


You just answered your own question/ rant.

How high do prices have to go in Ohio for them to drag fuel west to your station from an east coast refinery that's doing fine instead of the typical west coast refinery that's shut down?

If gas hits $3, will people reduce driving by 5% to meet the 5% reduction in production?

When and where are you complaining when they have to dump gasoline under cost because of a logistical snafu, eg, last winter?


How was OPEC's refusal, or anyone in the industry's refusal to cut production when there was a glut of product a logistical snafu? The industry did that to themselves purposely...
 
Originally Posted By: grampi
Traveling season, seasonal blends, and refinery issues are all just excuses to raise prices. None of these things causes any actual shortages. Have you ever gone to a gas station only to find out they don't have any gas to sell you?

You can call them excuses, but they're valid reasons in a market economy. And yes, I've gone to gas stations to find they didn't have gas to sell me. There also have been significant diesel shortages in the region over the past number of months.

Part of pricing is to mitigate shortages. If there is a shortage of gasoline, you don't drop the price so you can close shop and go home early for the day.
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: grampi
Traveling season, seasonal blends, and refinery issues are all just excuses to raise prices. None of these things causes any actual shortages. Have you ever gone to a gas station only to find out they don't have any gas to sell you?

You can call them excuses, but they're valid reasons in a market economy. And yes, I've gone to gas stations to find they didn't have gas to sell me. There also have been significant diesel shortages in the region over the past number of months.

Part of pricing is to mitigate shortages. If there is a shortage of gasoline, you don't drop the price so you can close shop and go home early for the day.


You'd be the only one who has seen stations with no fuel...I've never seen it and I lived through the original gas shortage back in '73...
 
Oh, it has happened. In fact, it just happened last week at a local Petro-Canada. It's certainly not all the common, but given a station's storage capacity versus sale volume, it does not take much of a wrench in the distribution works to cause something like that.

And I'm sure I'm not the "only" one who has seen stations with no fuel.
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
Oh, it has happened. In fact, it just happened last week at a local Petro-Canada. It's certainly not all the common, but given a station's storage capacity versus sale volume, it does not take much of a wrench in the distribution works to cause something like that.

And I'm sure I'm not the "only" one who has seen stations with no fuel.
wink.gif



Maybe not, but the point is it's very rare to see any stations without fuel no matter what's claimed to be going on within the industry...
 
Oh, certainly. We don't see routine shortages, which is nothing short of amazing, when you think about it. Stores run out of Pepsi, milk, eggs, filters, TVs, video games, scratch tickets, or all kinds of individual products all the time. That it doesn't happen with fuel is remarkable. Of course, those aren't exactly shortages, but more limited stock on hand due to limited space.

But, I can tell you that with current gas prices, consumption has gone up significantly. One of the local truck stops has had significantly better business right now than anytime in the past twenty years. So, demand certainly has risen. Some refineries having problems and cutting supply would limit supply and require management of the demand - a rise in prices.
 
Originally Posted By: grampi
..when I say more goods need to be shipped by rail, I also mean that railways need to be expanded nationwide to accommodate more rail shipments..


Who is paying?
 
And who will pay for the rail? YOU and everyone else. Just like the black hole of Amtrak that we keep throwing money at.

I did not exaggerate at all. Doing what you suggest will increase lead times for products to get where they are needed by several day if not weeks. And the cost of getting good in will skyrocket. When rail car is loaded, it does not do a direct to the destination run. It gets switched at rail yards, held up in transit, and even sometimes, gets lost in the system. And that is at the level of rail we have now. If we expand it too quickly, this problem will magnify considerably.

It could be a matter of semantics. What do you consider "long haul". Most freight is moved less than 800 miles. A lot of what I haul is ag products for bakery production. They can't have product sitting on a rail car for days. Orders are made based on production, which varies daily. They cannot afford to have product arrive more than a few hours early, or a few hours late. And the order is place no more than two days out.

Auto assembly plants. There is limited space available at the plants. They cannot have rail cars stacked up with inbound parts for assembly. And what if one of the components turns out to be bad? They would have rail cars full of bad product that would need to be returned, new product made, and shipped back to the plant. Like say a bad set of valves for instance. Whereas, if trucks are loaded and coordinated with the production line, once a bad part is found out, the trucks enroute can be turned back, and new corrected parts already made up and on their way to the assembly plant, causing minimal disruption. When an assembly line has to shut down due to lack of parts or delays, it cost $100,000 an hour! Don't believe me, call GM, Ford, FCA, any plant you want and they will tell you. You want to see the price for automobiles go into the stratosphere, then put everyone on rail. But in reality, rail is never going to be the primary option.

Sure, produce and such goes coast to coast, as does midwest meat and egg production heads out to the coasts. But one thing is for certain. You cannot load a head of lettuce on a train and expect it to reach it's destination before spoilage occurs. Frozen goods, yes. Fresh produce, no way. That is so time critical, that it can only be moved by truck efficiently.

If you took the time to actually study a little about logistics, supply chains, etc, you would understand why things are the way they are, and why 80% of everything that moves in the U.S. goes by truck and will for a long, long time. It is more efficient, and trucks pay their way. One typical semi truck pays more in fuel taxes, ad valorem taxes, license and permit fees, Federal Highway Use Tax, etc towards the infrastructure than most people in the U.S. make for their total income in a year. A far higher amount per impact on the roads than someone with a car. But that's ok, lets shut the trucks down and you can pay for the roads.

And when it is all said and done, many research groups have shown that only 60%, at best, of all that we pay for roads actually is used for roads. The other 40% gets lost in the black hole of bureaucracy.

Originally Posted By: grampi


Why is it whenever you and I have this discussion, you always exaggerate and misstate things?

First off, when I say more goods need to be shipped by rail, I also mean that railways need to be expanded nationwide to accommodate more rail shipments. Secondly, you always exaggerate by saying people will have to wait for weeks to get their goods if shipped by rail. That simply isn't true. We're talking about a difference of a couple days in shipping time, not weeks. A little planning ahead will alleviate that problem. Lastly, you always act like I'm advocating for the removal of ALL semis from our roads...I'm am not saying that, and I have never said that. What I am saying is that we could very easily get rid of most of the LONG HAUL truck traffic...those goods could be shipped by rail...I realize there will always be a need for semis to ship from the rail yards to the final destinations...quit exaggerating and misstating what I said to make your point...
 
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker

And when it is all said and done, many research groups have shown that only 60%, at best, of all that we pay for roads actually is used for roads. The other 40% gets lost in the black hole of bureaucracy.


Link please
 
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