Consumer Reports: 10 Cars That Will Go 200k Miles

[edyvw]

Quote:
You proved my point. I don't think water pumps or thermostats are wear items. You. They should last the life of the car. If I had to pull them off for some reason, I'd put a new one on as the parts are not expensive but I'm not making a project to change them if they're working fine.

Well, I do not want to get stranded on some mountain pass at 12,500ft, bcs I was waiting for water pump to die.
And yes, they should be changed, bcs smaller pumps or electric pumps do provide better mpg. Also, some pumps bcs of demands of engine are under more strain. But, that is why manufacturers are making different cars.
My wife (and she does not know anything about cars) tried RAV4 when we were getting small SUV. After trying VW Tiguan she said: is something wrong with RAV4? Nothing was wrong it is just the way Toyota builds cars, from point A to point B with no drama etc. Problem is, people who drove all their life RAV4 or similar cars that are much less complex to maintain (not necessarily more or less expensive to maintain) buy cars that have different demands, and then bad things happen, bcs they think they can use same oils in RAV 4 and VW Tiguan, or Camry and BMW 3 series etc. It is just different philosophy in building cars.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Leo99
Some people think that thermostats, alternators, starters, water pumps, and radiators are normal wear items. You know, like brakes and tires.


Water pump and thermostat should be change regardless. There is NO WAY I would drive ANY car pass 120K with same pump and thermostat.

If I change water pump and thermostat at 120k miles, then I need to change these items 3 times for my 370+k miles LS400. I changed it only once at around 35x,xxx miles because of a small leak and I had to add coolant every week.

Brake, tire, wiper blade ... are wear items, after number of miles/months they wear out and needed to be replaced, and they are part of maintenance budget along with oil, ATF, PSF, brake fluid, various filters ... Other items are part of repair budget, if repair cost of 2 consecutive years is more than 40-50% of the car value then it doesn't make sense to keep it.

 

[TiredTrucker]

I lost a lot of confidence that CR has a clue what is going on when it comes to automotive since they did the fuel economy study on the 2006 Jeep Liberty Diesel. The EPA sticker said 27 mpg highway. CR claimed 17 mpg highway. I regularly got over 32 mpg highway. When I questioned CR about how they did the study, the stated they did it like any other auto, in that they disconnect the fuel line and attach to a container with a measured amount of fuel. I stated "you do know, that a lot of fuel is returned to the normal fuel tank off the common rail of that diesel engine don't you? That would skew the test that the vehicle is getting for mpg if you did not account for that return fuel and measure the amount." They blew me off as some sort of a rube that doesn't understand diesels. Even though I have over a documented 5 million miles of commercial truck operation experience with a large chunk of that actually owning those trucks.

That being said, there are myriads of fleet owned autos, pickups, vans, etc ( not even on the CR list ) that go well on past 200,000 miles, comfortably.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Leo99
I sense a lot of sour grapes sentiment from people whose car didn't make the list.

CR readers value value. Getting from point A to point B without drama is the goal. If your priority is some sort of coolness or driving experience you're not in the CR demographic.

Yeah, most of them drive 10mph below speed limit in left lane, creating drama and traffic for other people.


And the rest of them are speeding, tailgating, messing around with their cell phones, and just basically being a danger to everyone else on the road...

One thing is for sure, tailgating with high beams behind f...heads who think driving in left lane is their constitutional right.


Tailgating under any circumstance is not acceptable, and anyone who does it should be treated as an aggressive driver...

 

[Vikas]

Obviously, alternator, starter, fuel pump are all eventually going to need servicing. The real issue is that they should NOT need replacement until 200K miles assuming that is the life of a normally maintained vehicle.

It was amusing to hear somebody claiming that changing alternator at 350K miles means it did not last the lifetime and hence inferior!

 

[edyvw]

Quote:
Tailgating under any circumstance is not acceptable, and anyone who does it should be treated as an aggressive driver...

If I ever get LED lights on a car, it will be for left lane f...heads.
By the way, Germany that on 70% of autobahns does not have a speed limit, has lower death rate then the U.S. What they do in Germany is that they enforce left lane like crazy as well as passing on the right, two things that in U.S. are almost common law.

 

[jrmason]

A thermostat is absolutely a maintenance item that should be replaced when the coolant is flushed.
The starter, altenator, and water pump on my 17 year old Dodge and starter and altenator on my 14 year old VW are the original units, yet both have been replaced on our Mercury by the time it was 5 years old. Both lasted less than 75k miles, along with more components than I care to list. Similar results with our Mustang, the starter went early and the altenator made it to about 80k miles. Id say we got a lemon but unfortunately our experiences have reflected every Ford Ive owned to date.

 

[Silverado12]

^^^I'm not real crazy about Ford either. I think Chrysler and GM make better products overall.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Quote:
Tailgating under any circumstance is not acceptable, and anyone who does it should be treated as an aggressive driver...

If I ever get LED lights on a car, it will be for left lane f...heads.
By the way, Germany that on 70% of autobahns does not have a speed limit, has lower death rate then the U.S. What they do in Germany is that they enforce left lane like crazy as well as passing on the right, two things that in U.S. are almost common law.


You sound like someone who believes you are entitled to drive as fast as you want, regardless of the speed limit, and anyone who gets in your way is a horrible person...

 

[CBR.worm]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR

If I change water pump and thermostat at 120k miles, then I need to change these items 3 times for my 370+k miles LS400. I changed it only once at around 35x,xxx miles because of a small leak and I had to add coolant every week.

Brake, tire, wiper blade ... are wear items, after number of miles/months they wear out and needed to be replaced, and they are part of maintenance budget along with oil, ATF, PSF, brake fluid, various filters ... Other items are part of repair budget, if repair cost of 2 consecutive years is more than 40-50% of the car value then it doesn't make sense to keep it.


Those original LS400's were IMO the best built cars ever. We had two of them in the '90s. I would buy one today except that a 20 year old car is still a 20 year old car.

 

[hattaresguy]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Leo99
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: CBR.worm
But at what cost? Any car will make it if you put enough money into it. I have had cars that made it to 200k with very few repairs.

I agree.

At 10 years with 150k miles the value of the car is about 25% or less original MSRP. If yearly repair/maintenance cost is more than 40-50% of the car remaining value then it is not worth it to keep it until 200k miles. If yearly repair/maintenance cost is less than 10-15% then it may be worth the cost to keep it running.

My LS400 is an example, the last 10 years after it crossed 200k miles I spent on average $400-500 a year on maintenance/repair to keep it running. No major components failed, only minor and medium(cost) parts failed. I replaced these failed parts: starter motor, radiator, water pump, timing belt, thermostat, alternator. Major components such as engine, transmission, catalytic converters, mufflers, steering rack ... are original


Some people think that thermostats, alternators, starters, water pumps, and radiators are normal wear items. You know, like brakes and tires.

Water pump and thermostat should be change regardless. There is NO WAY I would drive ANY car pass 120K with same pump and thermostat.


Maybe in the 80's on an American car, waste of money on a modern car.

The last water pump I changed was a decade ago on an old Mercedes and it just started to make a slight noise, after 265k miles and 17 years of service.

 

[PandaBear]

The biggest factor would be whether it has a design defect.

I'd not consider a car that has known head gasket issue or transmission issue to be a car that "will go 200k".

I can live with worn struts, radiator leak if not too expensive to replace, rattles, paint fading, leather cracking at 200k, but not any major component rebuild no matter how well I do preventive maintenance.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: thrace
Quote:
In other words, it's a list of cars that consumer reports readers are most likely to keep to 200K, not a list of cars that will go 200K.
True. Cars CR readers kept to 200k. But with how many repairs at what cost? And, compared to others, willingness of a CR reader to get rid of a car and spend $$$$ on a different car. There is a Honda V6 on the list. My Honda V6 is far below 200K and has needed many expensive repairs including the transmission, power windows, smog system, Srs system, multiple brake rotors, wheel bearings, doors, muffler, all engine transmission mounts. In contrast, my older Chrysler and Ford have not had so many issues or such expensive issues.

Personally, I think that there ares several variables here.
First, I am coming from Europe, part of Europe where only Japanese car you will see are Toyota LC's modified for police special forces that they use together with Puch-G and Land Rover Defender.
On other hand, VW is what in the U.S> is Camry, or even more. I yet to see VW that cannot make 200 or 300K if you maintain well, and by well I mean: change oil on time, use roper oil, change filters, and at 100-110K change water pump, and all belts.
While I will probably very soon buy Japanese SUV (Highlander or Pathfinder, 2011-2012) bcs I need 7 seaters, some of my family members have Japanese cars. Kudos to Japanese manufacturers how they can figure out to simplify things. What is not fun is that I still have to drive Japanese car that has proper brakes (I am not talking about GT-R), brakes that will not wrap after 20-30K etc. What I also noticed is that owners of those Japanese cars in my family have no clue about anything in the car. I once showed oil filter to one of my family members that drives Honda Pilot (2004) he said: what is that?
So, why for example European cars are not on the list? bcs my family member who drives Pilot wants to eventually buy Audi. When I explained him about oils etc, he said: man you lost me half way into conversation. I said: stick to Honda.


There are a few speculations:

1) bad dealerships that don't follow the recommended procedures (i.e. many VW dealers)

2) bad fuel (i.e. ethanol in gas or high sulfur diesel)

3) Americans are spoiled with the indestructible standard that some non Europeans set (i.e. Corolla, Civic, Crown Vic, typical American trucks, etc).

 

[friendly_jacek]

i also think they drive less in europe and are more tolerant to maintenance/failures. i agree, VW has the same status in europe as toyota in US.

 

[Yah-Tah-Hey]

Lived in Colorado for over two decades and don't remember a "12,500 ft" pass.Not saying there aren't some passes that high though. Two or three over 12,000 ft.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
i also think they drive less in europe and are more tolerant to maintenance/failures. i agree, VW has the same status in europe as toyota in US.

Also, many of the Europeans I know aren't afraid to get their "hands dirty." I know some Europeans who are doctors and so forth, and they're not afraid to work on their vehicles and keep them in good running order, even being a little OCD on the maintenance and doing it themselves to ensure it's done the right way.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: Garak
I know some Europeans who are doctors and so forth, and they're not afraid to work on their vehicles and keep them in good running order, even being a little OCD on the maintenance and doing it themselves to ensure it's done the right way.


one thing to keep in mind most European doctors (except for UK) are not as well remunerated as in US. but, i agree with you. Europeans take huge pride in car ownership and are very knowledgeable about the car specs if not outright working extensively on the cars. this is missing in US, where car is just an appliance to 90%+ people. i guess it has to do with that you don't have to have a car in Europe, while it's a necessity here.

 

[Garak]

And I do have to say that at least sometimes, a European vehicle will reward those who wish to actually work on their own vehicles. When I did have my Audi, the cooling fan was giving me grief. The wiring setup was a lot more conducive to me doing some electrical testing than most American cars of the same vintage. The power steering could be resealed readily and cheaply (o-ring replacement). Valve cover gasket and spark plugs (and wires, etc) were very easy. The thermostat was no problem. I would, however, like to meet the fool who decided to place the air filter housing where it was. That should have never taken two hours.

 

[hattaresguy]

European cars are much easier to work on, I detest working on American or Asian cars. They are not built with the mechanic in mind.

They also rape you on parts costs and offer poor parts support as the vehicles age.

 

[silvercivicsi]

Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
European cars are much easier to work on, I detest working on American or Asian cars. They are not built with the mechanic in mind.

They also rape you on parts costs and offer poor parts support as the vehicles age.



A large part of it is probably what you learned on or are used to working with. I learned on old datsuns, first generation Hondas, and old toyotas so the asian cars are pretty familiar to me. I can do most jobs up to full engine/transmission swaps easily.