Originally Posted By: bornconfuzd
JHZR2 said:
Windows 10 - Last Windows Version?
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Originally Posted By: tightwad
when a business tries to change a long-established and accepted product or service, it's usually a recipe for disaster. New Coke, anyone?
What amazes me is how the soda pop drinkers endure the high fructose corn syrup taste over the real sugar from years ago.
when a business tries to change a long-established and accepted product or service, it's usually a recipe for disaster. New Coke, anyone?
What amazes me is how the soda pop drinkers endure the high fructose corn syrup taste over the real sugar from years ago.
Originally Posted By: bornconfuzd
I think it's the learning curve that puts most people off Linux.
Give it time, still. You've been on Linux a while, but still not long enough. I've been doing it for over ten years now, and I've grown much more comfortable in Linux - knowing things intuitively as you put it - now then I was in Windows, and I've always been decent with software of any stripe.
Of course, part of it is always the resources available to help oneself. I use Mint, but I don't bother with the Mint forums, since the Ubuntu forums have a lot more traffic and much the same solutions. Of course, that's perpetuating a cycle, because when I come up with a solution or workaround on my own, I'm not sharing it on the Mint forums; I'm sharing it on the Ubuntu forums.
Realistically, unless one is doing serious gaming and photo editing (nod to Mystic) or needing commercial software where there is no commercial Linux (or open source) alternative, there isn't a lot of need for Windows.
Subscriptions, yeesh. They end up just creeping, anyhow. When I first used Norton, one could subscribe the next year for $10, or manually download the definitions and keep going indefinitely. Year after year, the Norton procedures and rules and terms of service have simply gotten more and more onerous, and I can see Windows going the same way.
I think it's the learning curve that puts most people off Linux.
Give it time, still. You've been on Linux a while, but still not long enough. I've been doing it for over ten years now, and I've grown much more comfortable in Linux - knowing things intuitively as you put it - now then I was in Windows, and I've always been decent with software of any stripe.
Of course, part of it is always the resources available to help oneself. I use Mint, but I don't bother with the Mint forums, since the Ubuntu forums have a lot more traffic and much the same solutions. Of course, that's perpetuating a cycle, because when I come up with a solution or workaround on my own, I'm not sharing it on the Mint forums; I'm sharing it on the Ubuntu forums.
Realistically, unless one is doing serious gaming and photo editing (nod to Mystic) or needing commercial software where there is no commercial Linux (or open source) alternative, there isn't a lot of need for Windows.
Subscriptions, yeesh. They end up just creeping, anyhow. When I first used Norton, one could subscribe the next year for $10, or manually download the definitions and keep going indefinitely. Year after year, the Norton procedures and rules and terms of service have simply gotten more and more onerous, and I can see Windows going the same way.
Originally Posted By: bornconfuzd
Originally Posted By: slowdime
The only reason I keep Windows is for games, that and afaik nvidia drivers aren't available for Linux
Well yeah, nvidia drivers ARE available for Linux. I have an Nvidia driver installed in my Linux box. But, they are not included in the kernel like other drivers. Even though you can go to the Nvidia website and download a Linux driver they don't make them available to the Linux devs. They're still proprietary.
It's one of those "harder" parts I spoke of earlier!
Ah. Thanks for the insight! I'm a relative Linux novice. I ran ubuntu to get a taste of a different os and liked it, sans the whole unity dash thing. I grew pretty fond of elementary and used it as my primary os for a while. I've just been waiting for Freya to finally be finished with beta and that'll be the incentive I need to add a second hd to my rig!
About the trickiest thing I've had to do on a linux os is to get Google earth to work properly!
Originally Posted By: slowdime
The only reason I keep Windows is for games, that and afaik nvidia drivers aren't available for Linux
Well yeah, nvidia drivers ARE available for Linux. I have an Nvidia driver installed in my Linux box. But, they are not included in the kernel like other drivers. Even though you can go to the Nvidia website and download a Linux driver they don't make them available to the Linux devs. They're still proprietary.
It's one of those "harder" parts I spoke of earlier!
Ah. Thanks for the insight! I'm a relative Linux novice. I ran ubuntu to get a taste of a different os and liked it, sans the whole unity dash thing. I grew pretty fond of elementary and used it as my primary os for a while. I've just been waiting for Freya to finally be finished with beta and that'll be the incentive I need to add a second hd to my rig!
About the trickiest thing I've had to do on a linux os is to get Google earth to work properly!
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Also, when it comes to the video card drivers, they're not really necessary. There are open source drivers in the kernel and they work absolutely fine for 99% of purposes. Unless you're doing some serious video editing or running Flightgear or the like at a really high load, you're not going to see a benefit from the proprietary drivers.
On my last Ubuntu system, I got the proprietary drivers, but updating them wasn't as easy back then. That's certainly improved, now. But, when I switched to Mint, I didn't even bother with the proprietary drivers; I just use what came with the distro and I'm very happy with it.
On my last Ubuntu system, I got the proprietary drivers, but updating them wasn't as easy back then. That's certainly improved, now. But, when I switched to Mint, I didn't even bother with the proprietary drivers; I just use what came with the distro and I'm very happy with it.
I highly doubt that Microsoft will move Windows to a paid subscription service. They've said they're not. Media conjecture will continue, though, as irrational as it may be.
It makes no financial sense for Microsoft to move to a paid model. Every other major operating system is free to acquire. Linux. Mac OS. Android. Etc. You may subsidize the OS some with the purchase of hardware (in the case of Mac OS/iOS or Android), but new versions or updates are free to the end user.
The cost model, obviously, is to get consumers to buy associated products. Apple wants you to buy their iWork or whatever it's called. They want you to shop in their App Store. Microsoft wants you to buy Office 365. They want you to shop in the Windows Store. Google wants you go use Google services extensively (Drive, YouTube, Play Store, etc) because they get advertising revenue. Modern software revenue stream doesn't come from direct sales of operating systems, as it used to in the past.
It makes no financial sense for Microsoft to move to a paid model. Every other major operating system is free to acquire. Linux. Mac OS. Android. Etc. You may subsidize the OS some with the purchase of hardware (in the case of Mac OS/iOS or Android), but new versions or updates are free to the end user.
The cost model, obviously, is to get consumers to buy associated products. Apple wants you to buy their iWork or whatever it's called. They want you to shop in their App Store. Microsoft wants you to buy Office 365. They want you to shop in the Windows Store. Google wants you go use Google services extensively (Drive, YouTube, Play Store, etc) because they get advertising revenue. Modern software revenue stream doesn't come from direct sales of operating systems, as it used to in the past.
Another thought: we're already seeing evidence of this model change within Microsoft today. In two areas, actually.
First, and this has already been in the news, is the free upgrade to 10 for the first year for Windows 7, 8, and 8.1 users. What Microsoft will do with it after that remains to be seen. I wouldn't be surprised if it remained free.
Second, "Windows 8.1 with Bing", which is Windows defaulted to use Bing as the search engine, is already free to OEMs to install on new hardware. This means, at least in theory, you're paying only for the hardware and not for an operating system license. See the likes of the Intel Computer Stick or HP's Stream Notebooks. These are essentially the same as Chromebooks -- a lightweight netbook computer without the added expense of a paid operating system. The idea, of course, is to have users use Bing as their search engine for Microsoft to collect the ad revenue. One can certainly change their default search engine after they buy the product, but it's a clear example of what Microsoft sees as its revenue source.
So we're already seeing this new revenue model playing out at Microsoft. It'd be a real reversal for them to want to charge for operating system updates in the future. I'm not saying that it'll never happen...just that it wouldn't make much sense for them to do it.
First, and this has already been in the news, is the free upgrade to 10 for the first year for Windows 7, 8, and 8.1 users. What Microsoft will do with it after that remains to be seen. I wouldn't be surprised if it remained free.
Second, "Windows 8.1 with Bing", which is Windows defaulted to use Bing as the search engine, is already free to OEMs to install on new hardware. This means, at least in theory, you're paying only for the hardware and not for an operating system license. See the likes of the Intel Computer Stick or HP's Stream Notebooks. These are essentially the same as Chromebooks -- a lightweight netbook computer without the added expense of a paid operating system. The idea, of course, is to have users use Bing as their search engine for Microsoft to collect the ad revenue. One can certainly change their default search engine after they buy the product, but it's a clear example of what Microsoft sees as its revenue source.
So we're already seeing this new revenue model playing out at Microsoft. It'd be a real reversal for them to want to charge for operating system updates in the future. I'm not saying that it'll never happen...just that it wouldn't make much sense for them to do it.
There is definitely a change occurring in how consumers and even enterprise are using computers, clouds and tablet/phones. A subscription model for enterprise might make sense, with something like Windows w/Bing for consumers.
I'm using Intel HD 4000 graphics. Linux works out of the box; I can even run steam based games.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: sleddriver
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I suspect that they will start to move more and more to a cloud based format, where some very basic tablet/console OS allows connectivity to the web-enabled, cloud-based OS that provides full functionality and a long-term update schedule, relatively agnostic of hardware, for a nominal continuous fee.
And in that way, the OS services will be fed out just the same way that centralized database, accounting and other systems are set up on massive windows distributions in large enterprises.
There will surely always be a standalone, off-network capability for those who need it... But those who need it are willing to pay for it. The key for MS, IMO is to get business back from the chrome book types who actually have some limited use for Windows...
At some point it will be silly to have umpteen different OSes of different types from different vendors and conglomerations of developers...
Oh the irony....the ghosts from DEC and IBM are laughing "I told you so". We've come full circle. Mainframes are the future, running "aps". DT's, LT's NTbks, Chromebooks become nothing but "terminals" to access all data, programs, aps, storage, etc "in the cloud".
No more viruses, bots, malware because all consumer-level devices will be nothing but a stupid, wireless terminal...perfect for all those who don't want to know nor care. As long as they get their MTV.
That didn't last long.........
Fire up the VAX! LOL
Been there, done that...and the IBM 370, CDC6600, cp/m, WANG. I even still have OS/2 WARP!
Originally Posted By: sleddriver
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I suspect that they will start to move more and more to a cloud based format, where some very basic tablet/console OS allows connectivity to the web-enabled, cloud-based OS that provides full functionality and a long-term update schedule, relatively agnostic of hardware, for a nominal continuous fee.
And in that way, the OS services will be fed out just the same way that centralized database, accounting and other systems are set up on massive windows distributions in large enterprises.
There will surely always be a standalone, off-network capability for those who need it... But those who need it are willing to pay for it. The key for MS, IMO is to get business back from the chrome book types who actually have some limited use for Windows...
At some point it will be silly to have umpteen different OSes of different types from different vendors and conglomerations of developers...
Oh the irony....the ghosts from DEC and IBM are laughing "I told you so". We've come full circle. Mainframes are the future, running "aps". DT's, LT's NTbks, Chromebooks become nothing but "terminals" to access all data, programs, aps, storage, etc "in the cloud".
No more viruses, bots, malware because all consumer-level devices will be nothing but a stupid, wireless terminal...perfect for all those who don't want to know nor care. As long as they get their MTV.
That didn't last long.........
Fire up the VAX! LOL
Been there, done that...and the IBM 370, CDC6600, cp/m, WANG. I even still have OS/2 WARP!
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: sleddriver
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: sleddriver
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I suspect that they will start to move more and more to a cloud based format, where some very basic tablet/console OS allows connectivity to the web-enabled, cloud-based OS that provides full functionality and a long-term update schedule, relatively agnostic of hardware, for a nominal continuous fee.
And in that way, the OS services will be fed out just the same way that centralized database, accounting and other systems are set up on massive windows distributions in large enterprises.
There will surely always be a standalone, off-network capability for those who need it... But those who need it are willing to pay for it. The key for MS, IMO is to get business back from the chrome book types who actually have some limited use for Windows...
At some point it will be silly to have umpteen different OSes of different types from different vendors and conglomerations of developers...
Oh the irony....the ghosts from DEC and IBM are laughing "I told you so". We've come full circle. Mainframes are the future, running "aps". DT's, LT's NTbks, Chromebooks become nothing but "terminals" to access all data, programs, aps, storage, etc "in the cloud".
No more viruses, bots, malware because all consumer-level devices will be nothing but a stupid, wireless terminal...perfect for all those who don't want to know nor care. As long as they get their MTV.
That didn't last long.........
Fire up the VAX! LOL
Been there, done that...and the IBM 370, CDC6600, cp/m, WANG. I even still have OS/2 WARP!
I do too
And all the early Windows versions. I never played with a lot of IBM though, just HP-UX and DEC Alpha stuff. Also a bit of IRIX. Those were fun times.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: sleddriver
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I suspect that they will start to move more and more to a cloud based format, where some very basic tablet/console OS allows connectivity to the web-enabled, cloud-based OS that provides full functionality and a long-term update schedule, relatively agnostic of hardware, for a nominal continuous fee.
And in that way, the OS services will be fed out just the same way that centralized database, accounting and other systems are set up on massive windows distributions in large enterprises.
There will surely always be a standalone, off-network capability for those who need it... But those who need it are willing to pay for it. The key for MS, IMO is to get business back from the chrome book types who actually have some limited use for Windows...
At some point it will be silly to have umpteen different OSes of different types from different vendors and conglomerations of developers...
Oh the irony....the ghosts from DEC and IBM are laughing "I told you so". We've come full circle. Mainframes are the future, running "aps". DT's, LT's NTbks, Chromebooks become nothing but "terminals" to access all data, programs, aps, storage, etc "in the cloud".
No more viruses, bots, malware because all consumer-level devices will be nothing but a stupid, wireless terminal...perfect for all those who don't want to know nor care. As long as they get their MTV.
That didn't last long.........
Fire up the VAX! LOL
Been there, done that...and the IBM 370, CDC6600, cp/m, WANG. I even still have OS/2 WARP!
I do too
Originally Posted By: bornconfuzd
Isn't that onboard graphics? That's not a problem.
The problem I've run into is with discrete Nvidia cards. I've installed Mint on 3 computers with discrete cards and had the same issue with all 3.
Yeah the 'intel hd' is integrated graphics. The saving grace is a lack of graphics intensive games for Linux that would require a discrete card. That's all I keep Windows around for, a gaming os; I never could quite get wine to work properly.
Isn't that onboard graphics? That's not a problem.
The problem I've run into is with discrete Nvidia cards. I've installed Mint on 3 computers with discrete cards and had the same issue with all 3.
Yeah the 'intel hd' is integrated graphics. The saving grace is a lack of graphics intensive games for Linux that would require a discrete card. That's all I keep Windows around for, a gaming os; I never could quite get wine to work properly.
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Originally Posted By: slowdime
I never could quite get wine to work properly.
Same here; I hacked at it repeatedly and could not make it work. MS is on the bottom of my list at times, but there is no getting around certain aspects of the OS and the applications designed to run on it.
I never could quite get wine to work properly.
Same here; I hacked at it repeatedly and could not make it work. MS is on the bottom of my list at times, but there is no getting around certain aspects of the OS and the applications designed to run on it.
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Originally Posted By: slowdime
I never could quite get wine to work properly.
Same here; I hacked at it repeatedly and could not make it work. MS is on the bottom of my list at times, but there is no getting around certain aspects of the OS and the applications designed to run on it.
I could get wine to run, just not in a very stable manner. Probably doesn't help that the game I was trying to run was well over a decade old with a lot of mods on it. But running applications natively on Windows is easier for a novice such as myself.
Originally Posted By: slowdime
I never could quite get wine to work properly.
Same here; I hacked at it repeatedly and could not make it work. MS is on the bottom of my list at times, but there is no getting around certain aspects of the OS and the applications designed to run on it.
I could get wine to run, just not in a very stable manner. Probably doesn't help that the game I was trying to run was well over a decade old with a lot of mods on it. But running applications natively on Windows is easier for a novice such as myself.
Originally Posted By: Shrubitup
How this is gonna down is THEY determine what is value added and just go ahead and push the upgrade to you overnight without your approval and then when you need to use it in the morning you owe them $69.95 for the latest update patch refresh compatability plug-in. No payment equals no acess to the internet your software or files. I will run to the vendor who provides it the old fashioned way - on a disc.
Nonsense. Microsoft wouldn't do that to their customer base as this is akin to GM going to everyone's household that owns a GM vehicle overnight, removing the powertrain, and then telling them if they want a car they should upgrade the engine.
Worst thing that will happen is they'll scare you into upgrading like they did with the XP EOL notification.
How this is gonna down is THEY determine what is value added and just go ahead and push the upgrade to you overnight without your approval and then when you need to use it in the morning you owe them $69.95 for the latest update patch refresh compatability plug-in. No payment equals no acess to the internet your software or files. I will run to the vendor who provides it the old fashioned way - on a disc.
Nonsense. Microsoft wouldn't do that to their customer base as this is akin to GM going to everyone's household that owns a GM vehicle overnight, removing the powertrain, and then telling them if they want a car they should upgrade the engine.
Worst thing that will happen is they'll scare you into upgrading like they did with the XP EOL notification.
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