Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Originally Posted By: 2cool
The whole point of shooting someone is to cause as much damage as possible to them.
Get that frame of thought completely out of your head, unless you like the idea of a 7x10 prison cell for the rest of your life. The point of shooting someone is TO STOP THEM from the felonious activity they were doing. Nothing more, and nothing less. If you shoot in a perp's direction and miss, and they stop their felonious activity, than you have stopped them without even "damaging them as much as possible." If you shoot a person one time in the pinky and they immediately stop what they were doing, than that was a successful deployment of force.
The act of shooting a person may stop them, either via physiological or psychological response. Psychological is where they realize that they have been shot and than immediately stop their attack (by choice, even though they were physically able to continue to attack if they wanted to). Physiological is where they can no longer continue the attack due to blood loss or physical damage to the nervous system.
It's always and has always been "shoot to stop", never shoot to kill. If you are shooting to maim or kill, that that makes you a criminal.
Point taken, but still; I'm not wrong. It's just that I got to the end shorter than you did. If you feel you must use lethal force, you do indeed want to cause the BG to stop as quickly as possible. That requires, as you do note, either psychological or physical incapacitation. Since no one can accurately gauge what may psychologically cause someone to stop; the only reliable method of incapacitating a BG is to "cause as much damage as possible" to get him to stop. Nowhere did I say "shoot to kill", you have wrongly attributed that to me.
On the point of the 223/5.56; IMO its' not as good a choice vs. pistol caliber carbines. 9mm, 40 S&W, and especially revolver cartridges get an enormous boost in ME from a longer barrel; a 45 ACP not so much; per Ballistics by the Inch (BBTI). There are several bullets designed for pistols that are effective as anti-personnel projectiles. 223/5.56 was designed for varmints originally. Not nearly as many or as well developed anti-personnel rounds available, and not cheap either.
In point of fact, according to Hodgdon, a 357 magnum 110gr. XTP bullet can be loaded to ME of 1404 ft/lb vs. the Hornady 5.56mm 55gr. GMX bullet ME 1196ft/lb or the 77 grain HPBT at 1410 ft/lb.; and the .357 bullet makes a bigger entrance hole. Hopefully, there shouldn't be an exit hole, because that means (as you know) the energy wasn't transferred to the BG.
The OP asked about defensive ammo. That means that the bullet is designed to "cause as much damage as possible", which is why police use them, isn't it?. If the OP's question were about target shooting, of course my observation would be incorrect.
I have, and will continue, to enjoy reading your posts, Bubbatime. I do feel that you have been condescending in tone and have taken my remarks out of context in your replies to my post in this thread. Thank you for your obvious concern that readers of this thread get accurate information; but you can do better than this.
