Hundreds march at McDonald's HQ over low wages

[spasm3]

Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: spasm3
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: Trav
Flop houses, blue plate specials and shoe leather. Not nice apartments, cars, big screen TV, free cell phones, and steak.


In other words, the government will dictate what you can and can't have?


Since its other peoples money, yes. They did not earn it, its not theirs. Its not given to them for those things, its give to keep them from starving and keeping rain off their heads UNTIL they find employment.


It isn't other people's money. It's money the gov't collects to use for whatever is needed to be done.


Not other peoples money? where did it come from? other peoples work/sweat.
It is other peoples money, that's the problem with government. There is a fiduciary responsibility to use the money wisely, not for whatever it wants or thinks needs to be done, like free cell phones, and the things we see that are wasted.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: Trav
Flop houses, blue plate specials and shoe leather. Not nice apartments, cars, big screen TV, free cell phones, and steak.

In other words, the government will dictate what you can and can't have? Doesn't that sound like... something you very much don't want?

And have you actually done the math to figure out how much your solution would cost vs. what's actually the case?


No just the opposite government wont dictate anything, the individual and the free market will decide that.
You make $1K a month you have a $400 a month room and eat, maybe a family member gives you an old TV or you go without, take the bus when you can otherwise walk to work.
I am not a sympathetic soul for those who don't help themselves but i will and have paid a couple of grand for the vet to help a sick and homeless animal then find it a good home and will again.

Get the point, help those who cant help themselves be it a human or animal, if you can afford health care or an illegal and choose not to take it and rely on the system and it doesn't quite work out thats not my problem.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: KD0AXS

That is excellent and so true.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: Trav
No just the opposite government wont dictate anything, the individual and the free market will decide that.

Did you or did you not say earlier that people on government assistance should not be permitted to spend money on certain things?


Originally Posted By: Trav
You make $1K a month you have a $400 a month room and eat, maybe a family member gives you an old TV or you go without, take the bus when you can otherwise walk to work.

This is already the reality for the vast majority of low-income people.

 

[Mr Nice]

d00df00d,

Are you a teacher, if so what grade do you teach ?
Just wondering...

 

[JustinH]

I have a college degree, and numerous certifications and my second year in IT I make $20 per hour.

A burger flipper should make 75 percent of what I do?

Not saying I'm better than anyone, but people are just demanding too much.

When I worked in a restaurant when I was a kid, I made $5 per hour. Minimum wage sounds about right for a Mcdonalds job. If you don't like the wage then go to school and make something out of yourself. Learn a trade, etc.

Too many people in this world thinking we owe them something.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: Trav
No just the opposite government wont dictate anything, the individual and the free market will decide that.

Did you or did you not say earlier that people on government assistance should not be permitted to spend money on certain things?


Show me the quote to what i said. I cant be bothered looking through the whole thread.

 

[Mystic]

It seems like common sense but maybe common sense is unusual. People do much better if they can find employment and can live their own lives without having to depend on the government. There is abundant research that shows that the welfare system in this country has helped to destroy families. Families are important. That is not just some religious concept. That is a fact. We have people in the USA who have experienced 3-4 generations of welfare existence.

When I graduated from college there were not many jobs available either. I went out and found employment. I held down various jobs including while I was going to school (in the summer months I worked). I had various minimum wage jobs when I was young-the minimum wage in those days was $1.60 an hour. The last job I had I worked there for over 33 years.

There is a serious need in this country for more trade schools. There are actually a lot of jobs available that require various work skills such as welding, auto mechanics, carpentry, etc., etc., etc. Instead in this country there are a lot of people going to school getting some degree in political science or whatever. We have huge numbers of people in the USA graduating from college with what is essentially some meaningless degree and then they can't find work. And while in college they are taught a considerable bit of nonsense. That was true when I WENT TO COLLEGE! Which was a long time ago.

And yet there is actually a shortage of workers for many skilled blue collar employment jobs. But a lot of people will not accept those jobs. They figure they will get a college degree and immediately get some high paying job as a supervisor somewhere. It usually does not work that way unless somebody has connections or is going into a family owned business or graduates from some major university. And even for those attending some major university they would be better off with business degrees, or chemistry degrees, engineering degrees, etc. There are too many people with degrees in political science or sociology.

And if somebody feels so much for the poor of this country maybe actually go out there and help those people succeed.

 

[Mystic]

Originally Posted By: JustinH
I have a college degree, and numerous certifications and my second year in IT I make $20 per hour.

A burger flipper should make 75 percent of what I do?

Not saying I'm better than anyone, but people are just demanding too much.

When I worked in a restaurant when I was a kid, I made $5 per hour. Minimum wage sounds about right for a Mcdonalds job. If you don't like the wage then go to school and make something out of yourself. Learn a trade, etc.

Too many people in this world thinking we owe them something.


This is 100% correct. I have met a lot of young people who think society owns them something. What ever happened to what President Kennedy said? 'Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.' I can't remember if it was exactly those words but that is close. Too many people in this world for which it is all about them.

 

[Win]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
..... (and they worked it out to about a dime a meal for labor) ...



Who is they?

I call baloney.

If a place sells one hundred items an hour, each item has to go up seven cents to cover the raise of one burger flipper from $8/hr to $15/hr. You can't do it with one flipper, you need three, probably four, but we'll go with three, so each item has to go up twenty one cents to cover the three flippers. That's sixty three cents for a bag with burger, fries, and coke.

Problem is, that doesn't account for the employers matching contribution to payroll, and unemployment insurance and workers comp which are based on gross payroll, so there will be an additional upward deviation to cover that. And you can't raise the price of the skin flint dollar menu items, lest they would no longer be a dollar, so the other stuff gets to take another upward deviation to subsidize the loss leaders.

And the good hours have to cover all the freight for the bad hours when you can't move as much across the counter, so figure in another upward deviation for that. And sales tax is based on the value of the bag, so toss in another six or seven cents for that.

I expect a typical bag would go up $1 to $2.

Of course a really high volume place that can move a lot across the counter can handle it better than a place that can't, and you can always just fire people or cut their hours ( sort of defeats the point of a pay raise, no? ) so the actual dynamics of this would be hard to predict and vary greatly restaurant to restaurant.

This is just simple arithmetic. I'm not married to it - it won't hurt my feelings to point out where it is flawed.

But I don't see it happening for a dime a bag.

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: spasm3


It is other peoples money, that's the problem with government. There is a fiduciary responsibility to use the money wisely, not for whatever it wants or thinks needs to be done, like free cell phones, and the things we see that are wasted.


That's right, it is *not* other people's money. Money that you pay in taxes is no more your money than what you get in salary belongs to your employer. Or the money that you pay for goods/services is still yours.

 

[spasm3]

Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: spasm3


It is other peoples money, that's the problem with government. There is a fiduciary responsibility to use the money wisely, not for whatever it wants or thinks needs to be done, like free cell phones, and the things we see that are wasted.


That's right, it is *not* other people's money. Money that you pay in taxes is no more your money than what you get in salary belongs to your employer. Or the money that you pay for goods/services is still yours.


It is the peoples money. To be used according to the will of the people.
Read the last line of the Gettysburg address.

Basically when you have freedom, government fears the power of the people.
When you have tyranny, the people fear the power of the government.

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: spasm3

It is the peoples money. To be used according to the will of the people.
Read the last line of the Gettysburg address.

"“When the people find that they can vote themselves money,
that will herald the end of the republic.”

- Benjamin Franklin

 

[BRZED]

Originally Posted By: Al

"“When the people find that they can vote themselves money,
that will herald the end of the republic.”

- Benjamin Franklin


And we have been an oligarchy instead of a republic for some time. I suppose it's a form of natural progression benefiting enough people to keep it going.

 

[dlundblad]

I'm not saying what someone should or shouldn't buy, but if one has a smart phone and/ or can fork over extra money for alcohol / tobacco or other "wants", they shouldn't be on welfare.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: dlundblad
I'm not saying what someone should or shouldn't buy, but if one has a smart phone and/ or can fork over extra money for alcohol / tobacco or other "wants", they shouldn't be on welfare.


Or driving a nice new SUV.

 

[expat]

I have been following this thread closely, I have lots of questions, but sadly, no answers.

Something to consider.
In the UK there used to be Work Houses
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workhouse

Think: Oliver Twist.
The Workhouse was a last resort for people that were truly destitute. When entering they gave up all rights, possessions, CHILDREN etc. and worked for the board and keep.

The problem was, people would resort to anything, before resigning themselves to the workhouse.
Petty crime, organized crime and prostitution were rife.

A Crackdown on crime with harsh penalties (They even transported convicts to the U.S. and Australia

) did little to alleviate the problem.

No, I do not think Flipping Burgers and such jobs warrant a living wage (whatever that might be)
Nor do I thing Money (or even Food Stamps) should be given out without any checks or caveat's

But people in need should have GUIDING help toward the goal of self reliance.

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: expat

The problem was, people would resort to anything, before resigning themselves to the workhouse.
Petty crime, organized crime and prostitution were rife.

Maybe finding a job?

 

[expat]

Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: expat

The problem was, people would resort to anything, before resigning themselves to the workhouse.
Petty crime, organized crime and prostitution were rife.

Maybe finding a job?


I would imagine, that in many cases, Drug dealing or theft opportunities might be more readily available, and (at least at first) appear more lucrative.
Then they are on a slippery slope. Easy money, until they get cought. Then a criminal record making getting a real job even more difficult.

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: spasm3
Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: spasm3


It is other peoples money, that's the problem with government. There is a fiduciary responsibility to use the money wisely, not for whatever it wants or thinks needs to be done, like free cell phones, and the things we see that are wasted.


That's right, it is *not* other people's money. Money that you pay in taxes is no more your money than what you get in salary belongs to your employer. Or the money that you pay for goods/services is still yours.


It is the peoples money. To be used according to the will of the people.
Read the last line of the Gettysburg address.

Basically when you have freedom, government fears the power of the people.
When you have tyranny, the people fear the power of the government.


The Gettysburg Address has nothing to do with taxes. It says nothing about taxes. Nor does it claim that it is "other people's money."

Once you pay taxes, its no longer YOUR money. it's the governments, and the countries money. the government decides how to spend it. the money you have left over after you pay taxes, and your bills... THAT'S "your" money. you don't get to say I want the money I paid on taxes spent on this, on not that. that's not how it works. if you don't like the way the government is spending tax revenue, change the government through elections! for example, when you buy something from a store you don't get to tell that store, or business what to do with their money. if you don't like what they do with their money, don't shop there anymore! so stop referring to tax revenue as your money, or other peoples money. once you've paid it on taxes, it's not. unless you are the government, and own the country. I'm pretty sure your not, and you don't.


“Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." Abe Lincoln

“These capitalists generally act harmoniously and in concert, to fleece the people"

Abraham Lincoln