costco gas?

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: engineer20
how is costco gas at the two costcos in livonia? I heard it wwas on par with 76 which is made by chevron
and how does costco gas compare with shell?
on a side note, does this site do lawn mower oil or is it just for cars? where can you get a 5 quart jug of sae 30 oil for a lawn mower?

http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/hot-deals/1411014/

And what about the costco selling the chevron techrons for cheap (it's not pro gard, is it?)


76 is blended by conocophillips. 76 was Chevron many moons ago.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: engineer20
i heard costco depends on the bidder and it varies by location but the pump adversises that it's 5x the federal minimum regardless of where it's getting the gas from but that it's cocono phillips oil. i like shell and i get shell fuel rewards as well as kroger discounts on shell, so shell would be something i'd compare it to. bp is my backup. i have a bp rewards card (they changed it, it was 20 gallons, now its all the time, apparently)

i don't have any fuel credit cards, just rewards cards where amounts are taken off per fill up

but is the costco in livonia (2) and ann arbor made by cocono phillips or is it different in michigan and how does it compare to sams' club gas?

sams' club gas apparently isn't top tier, but is it any good? Thanks.

There seems to be a basic misunderstanding of what makes a fuel correspond to the name of the gas station. Save some specialty fuels, almost all fuel sold is a commodity. There are various exchange agreements and pretty much all fuel comes from common fuel depots. The fuel is mostly piped to the depots, and the 87/91/93 octane from different refineries will almost always be commingled by the time it goes into the tanker truck and on its way to the gas station. The same depot will be servicing deliveries to Costco, Shell, Conoco, Chevron, etc. Typically the detergent additive is added at the depot, and that may be one where each brand has its own tank of the stuff at the depot, in addition to generic additives that may go to the independents. Valero used to just get whatever generic additive was available, but since then they gone Top Tier and presumably buys their own additive to store at these depots. Also, it's very much possible for a refiner to just buy one already developed to use as their own "branded" additive. Sam's is likely just a generic additive. Companies that specify their own additive tend to market that fact.

Costco has a different system. They buy base fuel without the detergent additive and have a system that meters their additive when it's delivered to the gas station. Apparently the station attendant punches the amount of fuel delivered, and the equipment meters a precise amount of their additive. A lot of users also like that Costco's volume and turnover is high, as fresh fuel doesn't have time to degrade.

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: engineer20
how is costco gas at the two costcos in livonia? I heard it wwas on par with 76 which is made by chevron
and how does costco gas compare with shell?
on a side note, does this site do lawn mower oil or is it just for cars? where can you get a 5 quart jug of sae 30 oil for a lawn mower?

http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/hot-deals/1411014/

And what about the costco selling the chevron techrons for cheap (it's not pro gard, is it?)


Costco additive levels are on par with Shell and well above 76.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: engineer20
on a side note, does this site do lawn mower oil or is it just for cars? where can you get a 5 quart jug of sae 30 oil for a lawn mower?

There is a subforum for that here. In any event, yes, I've seen jugs of SAE 30. Up here, Castrol GTX at the Canadian Tire is the path of least resistance (but high price) for a jug of SAE 30. For the States, your guess is as good as mine.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: engineer20
on a side note, does this site do lawn mower oil or is it just for cars? where can you get a 5 quart jug of sae 30 oil for a lawn mower?

There is a subforum for that here. In any event, yes, I've seen jugs of SAE 30. Up here, Castrol GTX at the Canadian Tire is the path of least resistance (but high price) for a jug of SAE 30. For the States, your guess is as good as mine.

There's always Wal-Mart house brand. The last time I bought oil for a lawn mower, I got Chevron SAE 30 with a rebate special. The mower is dead (never actually did a change and the gas phase separated) so I never got to use it.

 

[Garak]

I know that our Walmarts do sell SAE 30, but I'm not sure if they have liters or 5 liter jugs. I do know, however, that they have 5 gallon pails of the stuff, which might be excessive for a homeowner with one lawnmower.

 

[engineer20]

I saw quart jugs if sae 30 but not gallon

So costco additives are similar to shell? How about Bp? And how is SAMs club gas? It's not top tier and is cheap as we'll but is it bad like Meijer gas or Kroger gas which I've tried and I noticed my car ran worse with those cheap brands, how is SAMs club gas compared to Costco gas?

 

[engineer20]

Quart jugs of sae 30 at Walmart is what I meant to say

How is SAMs club gas?

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: engineer20
I saw quart jugs if sae 30 but not gallon

So costco additives are similar to shell? How about Bp? And how is SAMs club gas? It's not top tier and is cheap as we'll but is it bad like Meijer gas or Kroger gas which I've tried and I noticed my car ran worse with those cheap brands, how is SAMs club gas compared to Costco gas?

The base fuel is almost always going to be a commodity product. Of course there are going to be manufacturing variations that mostly come from the crude source. There could be differences between different tanks, but from a standpoint of where the fuel comes from, it's pretty hard to attribute it to a particular gas station unless there's a contamination issue. It's not as if Shell, BP, Sam's, Costco, etc. are getting better quality fuel. If one tanker truck filled with gas has any measurable differences, it probably has more to do with basic manufacturing differences, because nearly all fuel supplies are commingled. What's in your base fuel could be from some refinery a few states away or even made in a foreign country and shipped by tanker.

There's really no way of knowing what the additives are or how similar they are or what levels. I know PEA is talked about a lot, but there are other detergent additives that work and aren't based on PEA. There are also different forms of PEA. Fuel additives aren't even the primary use of PEA. It's primarily used to make plastics. When we're talking Top Tier or meeting some cleanliness standard, it's really more about efficacy than anything else.

Costco claims that it's "treat rate" is five times the EPA minimum required level, I'm not sure that really means much. It's certainly not "five times better". What they use is Lubrizol 9888 (and several variants) which was made specifically for Costco by Lubrizol. As for Shell, I don't know what they use. It has to be something on this list, but I don't see anything that's related to Shell of Infineum (their joint project with Exxon-Mobil), which used to have EPA-registered detergent additives. I'd even suspect that those ads showing Shell chemists developing additives in a lab are possibly just marketing. It probably makes more sense for them to buy a complete package from BASF or Afton than to produce it in house.

http://www.epa.gov/oms/fuels/registrationfuels/web-detrg.htm

 

[RTexasF]

Costco gas is a Top Tier gasoline. That combined with the price makes it a winner. Why would you not use it if available? In my area there are no stores, if there were I would use their fuel without a second thought.

 

[Durango]

Originally Posted By: mrcoolguy
Is it any good?


mrcoolguy,

I've used it on occasion but not consistently cuz there's no Costco in my area.

What I use more is Chevron and Arco. I will never use Shell!!!!
My neighborhood it's current price is about $4.65/regular.

As far as brand goes....when I have cash Arco all the way cuzI like the price and works well in both of my cars.

Durango

 

[engineer20]

why not shell? what's wrong with shell?

 

[Durango]

Originally Posted By: engineer20
why not shell? what's wrong with shell?


engineer20,

Shell is fine gasoline and since I heard it's manufactured by the same company that makes Arco I would use it if the price were right!

It is te most expensive gas in my area of Los Angeles! Here's the price as I remember it.....$4.69/regular, $4.89/mid grade and then $4.99/supreme. Would you use/buy it if you saw these prices in your hood????

Heck buddy I would rather use Arco and pay $.99 cents less at the pump.

Have a nice Monday off.

Durango

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: Durango
Originally Posted By: engineer20
why not shell? what's wrong with shell?


engineer20,

Shell is fine gasoline and since I heard it's manufactured by the same company that makes Arco I would use it if the price were right!

It is te most expensive gas in my area of Los Angeles! Here's the price as I remember it.....$4.69/regular, $4.89/mid grade and then $4.99/supreme. Would you use/buy it if you saw these prices in your hood????

Heck buddy I would rather use Arco and pay $.99 cents less at the pump.

Have a nice Monday off.

Durango

I wouldn't say it's made by the same company that makes Arco gas. Base gas is mostly traded as a fungible commodity. Often a refinery will put gas into a pipe, but the pipeline company will simply send an equivalent product from a different refinery to the destination. That's the way the fuel distribution system works to save on costs for everyone. By the time it gets to the fuel depot, it's probably been mixed with equivalent fuels from several refineries and possibly different outputs from the same refinery (the particular crude can make a difference). There probably is no "Shell fuel", "Arco fuel", or "Chevron fuel" based on where it comes from, since it all ends up mixed together anyways. "Branded" fuel depends on the proprietary additives.

The Arco name is now owned by Tesoro after they bought it from BP. Tesoro also bought BP's Carson refinery. Tesoro markets the Arco name in Southern California, but all other markets they licensed back to BP. BP also held onto the ampm name and licenses it to Tesoro.

Shell has its own distribution center in Carson, but they decommissioned their refinery in 1992. That distribution center gets fuel from all over, including by pipe (including tanker ship deliveries) and tanker trucks. It's really close to Tesoro's Carson refinery, but I wouldn't think that it's their only source of base fuel.

http://www.shell.us/aboutshell/projects-...out-carson.html

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: y_p_w
There probably is no "Shell fuel", "Arco fuel", or "Chevron fuel" based on where it comes from, since it all ends up mixed together anyways. "Branded" fuel depends on the proprietary additives.

There's no "probably" about it - you're correct. Most oil companies will confirm this, even in writing. I wouldn't be surprised if Shell and others did spot checks on refineries they didn't own but purchased from, or relied on appropriate testing by the refinery themselves. And they will also confirm they add their own additives.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
There probably is no "Shell fuel", "Arco fuel", or "Chevron fuel" based on where it comes from, since it all ends up mixed together anyways. "Branded" fuel depends on the proprietary additives.

There's no "probably" about it - you're correct. Most oil companies will confirm this, even in writing. I wouldn't be surprised if Shell and others did spot checks on refineries they didn't own but purchased from, or relied on appropriate testing by the refinery themselves. And they will also confirm they add their own additives.

I don't believe they even specify where the fuel comes from. They just want the fuel to meet the requirements and rely on their pipeline operators to ensure that what they get is what asked for (and test it when it gets to the terminal). Anything above that is too much work unless you're talking about 100 octane racing unleaded or something similar. There are some specialty fuels that can be shipped by pipeline and "segregated". Here's an explanation from the EPA (and yeah - supportportal.com is used by the EPA):

Quote:
http://fuelsprograms.supportportal.com/link/portal/23002/23005/Article/20388/

Some pipelines operate a fungible batch system and some operate a segregated batch system. A shipper on a segregated batch system receives the batch that it tendered at the origin point. The pipeline has the responsibility to maintain batch quality while the batch is in its custody. If the pipeline delivers to third party tankage, the terminal operator is responsible for segregating interface and delivering to tankage. It is unclear where the pipeline's responsibility begins and where it ends, which could drastically affect the pipeline's sampling and testing program. (How is responsibility divided under the current 500 ppm program?)

Pipelines are carriers under the regulations and as such have responsibility to ensure the product meets the standards while the pipeline has custody or title, and to provide appropriate product transfer documents to any downstream parties to whom it transfers custody. The responsibility to account for downgrade is a function of the point at which custody of the fuel is deemed to take place. This point is a function of contracts between the different entities. Each entity is responsible for all downgrading that occurs when it has custody.

However, I'm wondering what incentive a company like Shell would have to ensure that their fuel only comes from their refinery or even a preferred local supplier. As far as I can tell, Shell's only California refinery making California RFG is in Martinez. What are they likely to do? Maybe make sure that they order a segregated pipeline delivery all they way to their terminal in Carson, and only have their branded gas stations for hundreds of miles get their fuel via this one distribution center (along with their remote terminals)? Or will they just go to their pipeline operator and tell them "We're going to put in 200,000 gallons of Phase 3 California RFG from Martinez, and just deliver 200,000 gallons of the equivalent to our terminal in Carson"? There's a certain geographical constraint to shipping fuel. Shell doesn't have a refinery in Southern California, but their marketing operation still needs fuel there and will buy and/or effectively trade fuel deliveries.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: y_p_w
I don't believe they even specify where the fuel comes from. They just want the fuel to meet the requirements and rely on their pipeline operators to ensure that what they get is what asked for (and test it when it gets to the terminal).

Some will tell us, since they'll know. Having a refinery in this city and the nearest other refinery a substantial distance away means almost every drop comes from the local, and the oil companies will say so. What we have here is used locally (I'm sure a relatively tiny percentage) and the rest is sent out of here, be it through pipelines or other means.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
I don't believe they even specify where the fuel comes from. They just want the fuel to meet the requirements and rely on their pipeline operators to ensure that what they get is what asked for (and test it when it gets to the terminal).

Some will tell us, since they'll know. Having a refinery in this city and the nearest other refinery a substantial distance away means almost every drop comes from the local, and the oil companies will say so. What we have here is used locally (I'm sure a relatively tiny percentage) and the rest is sent out of here, be it through pipelines or other means.

That certainly makes sense from a logistical standpoint, but there are always factors affecting deliveries. When the Chevron Richmond refinery has to cut its output because of a shutdown or accident, the nearby fuel depot is going to be piping in fuel from another source. From what I understand they probably mix fuel in anyways. The description of the Shell Carson distribution center is that they get their fuel from all over Southern California, even though the Tesoro refinery is less than a mile away. Often it's the pipeline operator who controls the deliveries, and the customer just doesn't care as long as they get the correct commodity product.

That being said, every refiner is making fuel particular standards, and they're going to be sending that fuel all over. There's really no incentive to cheat or to make a "better" product for yourself. There are going to be differences in fuel batches (I hear mostly from the crude oil source), but not necessarily fully controlled by refineries.

Everything is accounted for similar to a bank. You might deposit a specific wad of cash, but when you withdraw it's likely to be a different set of bills.

Southern California is swarming with refineries. Near where I live we have five major refineries located in just two counties. One recently shut down due to a work stoppage. Another had an accident and had to cut output. They always have to deal with these contingencies, and as a result there's no guarantee of where the fuel comes from, and in any case it's unlikely that one refinery is consistently going to produce a better product than another. There are no big secrets when it comes to refining fuel. We're talking about close proximity to the point where I don't think it's unreasonable to believe that refinery A may be sending fuel to the depot next to refinery B on a regular basis, even when all are fully operational.

 

[Garak]

Oh certainly, there are accidents that do happen. We had diesel supply problems a few years back thanks to some catastrophic equipment failures at the refinery. Besides, there are plenty of parts of this province that very likely get served by Alberta, at least on occasion.

This image is from 2007, showing the location of Canadian refineries, from Government of Canada figures. The picture doesn't seem to show asphalt refineries, nor does it show heavy oil upgraders.

 

[engineer20]

how is Sam's club gas? I heard that was bad gas and it was the same as walmart gas (walmarts around my area don't have gas) but is sam's club gas bad? it's also cheap but costco gas is good/top tier whereas sams is like kroger gas (bad) right, or not really? any experiences on sams' club gas and i know you can wipe protectant for your interior to clean it, but what about just using a microfiber to dust your dashboard/interior? will it scratch your dashboard, or do you need protecttant or special sprays? what about using windex and a microfiber (i know this was unrelated but i was wondering about this)