Hundreds march at McDonald's HQ over low wages

[Mr Nice]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Both my immigrant parents came here in the late 1950's and barely spoke English. They both worked hard and achieved the 'American Dream'. Back then you either worked or starved.
Why can't an American citizen born in the USA do the same ???

So you ARE saying low-wage workers should improve themselves or die?

I know that second part is unpleasant, but I feel like you should at least have the courage to own it. You are suggesting that anyone who can't lift themselves out of a sub-living wage job should be left to die while we all watch. Why not admit it?


I don't want them to die (silly to suggest that)..... I want them to take ownership of THEIR situation and work towards a better future.

At 15 years old i was working on the weekends unloading pallets out of an 18 wheeler. Was it a job I wanted to do the rest of my life?
Of course not, but if I didn't strive for a better future I would still be unloading pallets and killing myself at a dead end low paying job.

An adult can't make excuses for their failures in life.

 

[d00df00d]

Never said you wanted them to die.

I just pointed out that you seem okay with death being the alternative if they can't sort their lives out the way you think they should.

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
All this hate for the McDonald's and Walmart employees...

What happens to all that money if the McDonald's employees don't get their raise? I'll tell you, Corporate America gets to keep the money. And who's Corporate America? Are they people like you and me? Nope, they're the top 1% with 40% of the nation's money supply in their pockets. Think about it: 1% of the population gobbling up 40% of all the money in the United States! Do you think they work hard for it? Do you think they've earned it? Nope, they're kicking back in their cushy office chair while the money stacks up in their bank account. Money that SHOULD be available for you and me. That's right, if the McDonald's employees had a bigger slice of the pie, there would be MORE money in circulation, not less. More money in circulation means more money for you and me instead of the top 1% having it all. You guys that hate the McDonald's and Walmart employee are shooting yourselves in the foot. What you're doing is aiding and abetting that rich man at the top in his cushy office chair raking in six figures a year and keeping all the money for himself.


Yeah...not even close to reality however.

The "rich" don't just sit around collecting money. Those folks worked their butts off to get there. Worked hard, took risks, got educated, worked 70 hour weeks, that sort of thing.

It's rarely just handed out. It has to be earned.

Further, the 1% income bracket varies with age. So a top 1% income for folks in their 20s would be around 150K, while for folks in their 50s, it's closer to 350K. So, the resentment of the top 1% is a resentment of all the professional folks out there, accountants, doctors, lawyers (the good ones) and entrepreneurs who you would look at and say, "that guy is middle class". It's also a resentment of people at their peak earning years. It's YOU, if you work hard at a career that takes education, skill and experience to get to the top.

You create a straw man out of the "evil fat cat in their cushy office chairs" and hate him...but that vision isn't reflected by reality.

At $300k of income, that middle age guy doesn't qualify for tax deductions like mortgage interest, or charitable deductions, that you do, AMT takes away those deductions. He doesn't get financial aid for his kids in college, he pays full price, and he can't deduct that either. But he still gives a higher percentage of his income to charity than those that hate him.

He still pays far more in taxes than everyone else. The top 1% control 40% of the money...and pay over half of the income taxes collected in the U.S....far more than their "fair share". He already funds the Federal programs that you want to expand.

If he's smart, he's still driving his used Toyota, while quietly getting crushed by taxes, because he is saving for his retirement and paying for his kids education and can't swing a new car.

All this hate for your middle class neighbor, the professional that's worked hard their entire life and is only just beginning to reap the rewards of decades of hard work.

All this hate for someone you already know, but choose to unfairly stereotype and misunderstand.

You bought the class warfare hatred hook, line and sinker, because it appealed to emotion, not reality. You're OK with hating, with resentment, of people that exemplify the American Dream: work hard and become a success.

You want to tear down and take what he has because you hate him. Like the grasshopper envied the ant in Aesop's fable. But the lesson Aesop had for us wasn't "hate the guy that works hard and prepared for winter", it wasn't "you're entitled to all that the ant stores up because that's fair"' it wasn't "you should be able to sing and dance all summer then take your neighbor's stores" the lesson was, "work first, play later, and be responsible for yourself".

You can't build up your own house by tearing down you neighbor's. But you've bought into the hate, the resentment, and want to tear it down anyway.

I recommend that you read, "The Millionaire Next Door". You would be surprised, as the authors were, at what a real millionaire looks like. I also recommend that you start investing for yourself, and in yourself, so that you can reap the rewards of those "huge corporate profits" by getting an 8 - 10% return every year. And after 40 years of modest investing, the you too will have enough for winter...you too can finally enjoy the fruits of your labor.

Perhaps long enough to keep some of it before the class envy warriors, the haters, are successful in their campaign to rip it from you to give to others in exchange for their vote...

 

[Mr Nice]

d00df00d,

No for death.
Yes for learning a skill.

Did you read my post about my barber cutting my hair in 10 minutes.
I pay him $13 for hair cut and $2 tip. $15 for 10 minutes of this skill set


Barber doesn't need a college degree to make good money.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
All this hate for the McDonald's and Walmart employees...

What happens to all that money if the McDonald's employees don't get their raise? I'll tell you, Corporate America gets to keep the money. And who's Corporate America? Are they people like you and me? Nope, they're the top 1% with 40% of the nation's money supply in their pockets. Think about it: 1% of the population gobbling up 40% of all the money in the United States! Do you think they work hard for it? Do you think they've earned it? Nope, they're kicking back in their cushy office chair while the money stacks up in their bank account. Money that SHOULD be available for you and me. That's right, if the McDonald's employees had a bigger slice of the pie, there would be MORE money in circulation, not less. More money in circulation means more money for you and me instead of the top 1% having it all. You guys that hate the McDonald's and Walmart employee are shooting yourselves in the foot. What you're doing is aiding and abetting that rich man at the top in his cushy office chair raking in six figures a year and keeping all the money for himself.


Yeah...not even close to reality however.

The "rich" don't just sit around collecting money. Those folks worked their butts off to get there. Worked hard, took risks, got educated, worked 70 hour weeks, that sort of thing.

It's rarely just handed out. It has to be earned.

Further, the 1% income bracket varies with age. So a top 1% income for folks in their 20s would be around 150K, while for folks in their 50s, it's closer to 350K. So, the resentment of the top 1% is a resentment of all the professional folks out there, accountants, doctors, lawyers (the good ones) and entrepreneurs who you would look at and say, "that guy is middle class". It's also a resentment of people at their peak earning years. It's YOU, if you work hard at a career that takes education, skill and experience to get to the top.

You create a straw man out of the "evil fat cat in their cushy office chairs" and hate him...but that vision isn't reflected by reality.

At $300k of income, that middle age guy doesn't qualify for tax deductions like mortgage interest, or charitable deductions, that you do, AMT takes away those deductions. He doesn't get financial aid for his kids in college, he pays full price, and he can't deduct that either. But he still gives a higher percentage of his income to charity than those that hate him.

He still pays far more in taxes than everyone else. The top 1% control 40% of the money...and pay over half of the income taxes collected in the U.S....far more than their "fair share". He already funds the Federal programs that you want to expand.

If he's smart, he's still driving his used Toyota, while quietly getting crushed by taxes, because he is saving for his retirement and paying for his kids education and can't swing a new car.

All this hate for your middle class neighbor, the professional that's worked hard their entire life and is only just beginning to reap the rewards of decades of hard work.

All this hate for someone you already know, but choose to unfairly stereotype and misunderstand.

You bought the class warfare hatred hook, line and sinker, because it appealed to emotion, not reality. You're OK with hating, with resentment, of people that exemplify the American Dream: work hard and become a success.

You want to tear down and take what he has because you hate him. Like the grasshopper envied the ant in Aesop's fable. But the lesson Aesop had for us wasn't "hate the guy that works hard and prepared for winter", it wasn't "you're entitled to all that the ant stores up because that's fair"' it wasn't "you should be able to sing and dance all summer then take your neighbor's stores" the lesson was, "work first, play later, and be responsible for yourself".

You can't build up your own house by tearing down you neighbor's. But you've bought into the hate, the resentment, and want to tear it down anyway.

I recommend that you read, "The Millionaire Next Door". You would be surprised, as the authors were, at what a real millionaire looks like. I also recommend that you start investing for yourself, and in yourself, so that you can reap the rewards of those "huge corporate profits" by getting an 8 - 10% return every year. And after 40 years of modest investing, the you too will have enough for winter...you too can finally enjoy the fruits of your labor.

Perhaps long enough to keep some of it before the class envy warriors, the haters, are successful in their campaign to rip it from you to give to others in exchange for their vote...



BRAVO!!!!!!!!!

 

[Mr Nice]

Yep. Agree 10000 %

But some people, especially politicians will pander this income inequality argument towards young impressionable folks.... which only leads to Occupy Wall Street protests.

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: rjundi
EBT and welfare check is a patch until a better solution comes around. However taking it away has dire consequences with the stability of our country.

Is not 4 generations enough??? Its come to that in many many cases. As far as stability of the country?? There are solutions to that but Liberals wouldn't go along with them. Liberals (as mentioned) think there are no Bad people..everyone is honerable and everyone can sit around the campfire singing Kumbaya

Originally Posted By: Astro14

You create a straw man out of the "evil fat cat in their cushy office chairs" and hate him...but that vision isn't reflected by reality.

Totally great post but liberals really can't deal with reality.

 

[02SE]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
All this hate for the McDonald's and Walmart employees...

What happens to all that money if the McDonald's employees don't get their raise? I'll tell you, Corporate America gets to keep the money. And who's Corporate America? Are they people like you and me? Nope, they're the top 1% with 40% of the nation's money supply in their pockets. Think about it: 1% of the population gobbling up 40% of all the money in the United States! Do you think they work hard for it? Do you think they've earned it? Nope, they're kicking back in their cushy office chair while the money stacks up in their bank account. Money that SHOULD be available for you and me. That's right, if the McDonald's employees had a bigger slice of the pie, there would be MORE money in circulation, not less. More money in circulation means more money for you and me instead of the top 1% having it all. You guys that hate the McDonald's and Walmart employee are shooting yourselves in the foot. What you're doing is aiding and abetting that rich man at the top in his cushy office chair raking in six figures a year and keeping all the money for himself.


Yeah...not even close to reality however.

The "rich" don't just sit around collecting money. Those folks worked their butts off to get there. Worked hard, took risks, got educated, worked 70 hour weeks, that sort of thing.

It's rarely just handed out. It has to be earned.

Further, the 1% income bracket varies with age. So a top 1% income for folks in their 20s would be around 150K, while for folks in their 50s, it's closer to 350K. So, the resentment of the top 1% is a resentment of all the professional folks out there, accountants, doctors, lawyers (the good ones) and entrepreneurs who you would look at and say, "that guy is middle class". It's also a resentment of people at their peak earning years. It's YOU, if you work hard at a career that takes education, skill and experience to get to the top.

You create a straw man out of the "evil fat cat in their cushy office chairs" and hate him...but that vision isn't reflected by reality.

At $300k of income, that middle age guy doesn't qualify for tax deductions like mortgage interest, or charitable deductions, that you do, AMT takes away those deductions. He doesn't get financial aid for his kids in college, he pays full price, and he can't deduct that either. But he still gives a higher percentage of his income to charity than those that hate him.

He still pays far more in taxes than everyone else. The top 1% control 40% of the money...and pay over half of the income taxes collected in the U.S....far more than their "fair share". He already funds the Federal programs that you want to expand.

If he's smart, he's still driving his used Toyota, while quietly getting crushed by taxes, because he is saving for his retirement and paying for his kids education and can't swing a new car.

All this hate for your middle class neighbor, the professional that's worked hard their entire life and is only just beginning to reap the rewards of decades of hard work.

All this hate for someone you already know, but choose to unfairly stereotype and misunderstand.

You bought the class warfare hatred hook, line and sinker, because it appealed to emotion, not reality. You're OK with hating, with resentment, of people that exemplify the American Dream: work hard and become a success.

You want to tear down and take what he has because you hate him. Like the grasshopper envied the ant in Aesop's fable. But the lesson Aesop had for us wasn't "hate the guy that works hard and prepared for winter", it wasn't "you're entitled to all that the ant stores up because that's fair"' it wasn't "you should be able to sing and dance all summer then take your neighbor's stores" the lesson was, "work first, play later, and be responsible for yourself".

You can't build up your own house by tearing down you neighbor's. But you've bought into the hate, the resentment, and want to tear it down anyway.

I recommend that you read, "The Millionaire Next Door". You would be surprised, as the authors were, at what a real millionaire looks like. I also recommend that you start investing for yourself, and in yourself, so that you can reap the rewards of those "huge corporate profits" by getting an 8 - 10% return every year. And after 40 years of modest investing, the you too will have enough for winter...you too can finally enjoy the fruits of your labor.

Perhaps long enough to keep some of it before the class envy warriors, the haters, are successful in their campaign to rip it from you to give to others in exchange for their vote...

 

[dishdude]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
All this hate for the McDonald's and Walmart employees...

What happens to all that money if the McDonald's employees don't get their raise? I'll tell you, Corporate America gets to keep the money. And who's Corporate America? Are they people like you and me? Nope, they're the top 1% with 40% of the nation's money supply in their pockets. Think about it: 1% of the population gobbling up 40% of all the money in the United States! Do you think they work hard for it? Do you think they've earned it? Nope, they're kicking back in their cushy office chair while the money stacks up in their bank account. Money that SHOULD be available for you and me. That's right, if the McDonald's employees had a bigger slice of the pie, there would be MORE money in circulation, not less. More money in circulation means more money for you and me instead of the top 1% having it all. You guys that hate the McDonald's and Walmart employee are shooting yourselves in the foot. What you're doing is aiding and abetting that rich man at the top in his cushy office chair raking in six figures a year and keeping all the money for himself.


Yeah...not even close to reality however.

The "rich" don't just sit around collecting money. Those folks worked their butts off to get there. Worked hard, took risks, got educated, worked 70 hour weeks, that sort of thing.

It's rarely just handed out. It has to be earned.

Further, the 1% income bracket varies with age. So a top 1% income for folks in their 20s would be around 150K, while for folks in their 50s, it's closer to 350K. So, the resentment of the top 1% is a resentment of all the professional folks out there, accountants, doctors, lawyers (the good ones) and entrepreneurs who you would look at and say, "that guy is middle class". It's also a resentment of people at their peak earning years. It's YOU, if you work hard at a career that takes education, skill and experience to get to the top.

You create a straw man out of the "evil fat cat in their cushy office chairs" and hate him...but that vision isn't reflected by reality.

At $300k of income, that middle age guy doesn't qualify for tax deductions like mortgage interest, or charitable deductions, that you do, AMT takes away those deductions. He doesn't get financial aid for his kids in college, he pays full price, and he can't deduct that either. But he still gives a higher percentage of his income to charity than those that hate him.

He still pays far more in taxes than everyone else. The top 1% control 40% of the money...and pay over half of the income taxes collected in the U.S....far more than their "fair share". He already funds the Federal programs that you want to expand.

If he's smart, he's still driving his used Toyota, while quietly getting crushed by taxes, because he is saving for his retirement and paying for his kids education and can't swing a new car.

All this hate for your middle class neighbor, the professional that's worked hard their entire life and is only just beginning to reap the rewards of decades of hard work.

All this hate for someone you already know, but choose to unfairly stereotype and misunderstand.

You bought the class warfare hatred hook, line and sinker, because it appealed to emotion, not reality. You're OK with hating, with resentment, of people that exemplify the American Dream: work hard and become a success.

You want to tear down and take what he has because you hate him. Like the grasshopper envied the ant in Aesop's fable. But the lesson Aesop had for us wasn't "hate the guy that works hard and prepared for winter", it wasn't "you're entitled to all that the ant stores up because that's fair"' it wasn't "you should be able to sing and dance all summer then take your neighbor's stores" the lesson was, "work first, play later, and be responsible for yourself".

You can't build up your own house by tearing down you neighbor's. But you've bought into the hate, the resentment, and want to tear it down anyway.

I recommend that you read, "The Millionaire Next Door". You would be surprised, as the authors were, at what a real millionaire looks like. I also recommend that you start investing for yourself, and in yourself, so that you can reap the rewards of those "huge corporate profits" by getting an 8 - 10% return every year. And after 40 years of modest investing, the you too will have enough for winter...you too can finally enjoy the fruits of your labor.

Perhaps long enough to keep some of it before the class envy warriors, the haters, are successful in their campaign to rip it from you to give to others in exchange for their vote...


Both of those posts are ridiculous! Both contain silly straw man arguments and regurgitated talking points from talk radio. This is a complex issue with many causes for why people are unable to sustain themselves and find opportunities. Some self inflicted, some not.

 

[eljefino]

So, my first job, foot-in-the-door type thing, paid 35 cents over minimum. I was fighting section 8 tenants over apartments. Whatever minimum wage is, make it substantially better than welfare, please. Make welfare worse, or wages better. Whatever.

If we have 11 people with equal qualifications and a willingness to work fighting for 10 jobs, do we as a society let them squabble into the dust of supply and demand? I don't even know these rhetorical people personally, but expect they send kids to my schools, pay real estate taxes, patronize my business, etc.

This country was founded on petitioning for better conditions, now some folks are grumbling in that direction and we act like it's 19th century France. Maybe it is.

 

[Lawn_Care]

There are two kinds of people in this world.

1. - Those that sit around, gripe, whine, and wait for something to happen.

and

2. - Those that get out there and make things happen for themselves.

It's that simple. I did it, no reason on God's Green Earth that others can't to. If someone is legitamately disabled, that's a completely different story. But I see quite a few 'disabled' people locally that are just as able, if not more so, to work as I.

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: dishdude

Both of those posts are ridiculous! Both contain silly straw man arguments and regurgitated talking points from talk radio. This is a complex issue with many causes for why people are unable to sustain themselves and find opportunities. Some self inflicted, some not.


Wrong again, Dishdude.

No strawman in my post whatsoever. My 1% "guy" is real, the 1% line drawn from facts, his situation drawn from a personal understanding of the tax code and how it applies at that income level. I know, very personally, what it takes to succeed.

You can choose to ignore my post, claim it's a strawman, enabling your political position to align with your emotional sense about things, but that ignores the reality of the situation.

That convenient rationalization allows you to ignore facts, and keep playing into the hands of those that appeal to your emotion.

But the economic, statistical, truth about people with wealth remains. Rant against them all you like, but it doesn't change who they are, how you've stereotyped them, or how they're treated in this country and others.

You just keep on hatin'...keep on believing that the "rich" deserve your hate, keep supporting politicians who feed your envy...it's a lot easier on your ego than the reality of people's failure to seize the opportunities that they've been presented.

Let me give you a real example. Not a strawman. Not a fake. She went to public school. She worked hard, very hard, in that public school.

For her entire high school experience, she played an instrument, volunteered at the local fire department, played sports, and studied...her AP class schedule, and labs, meant that she couldn't do any homework during school hours. It was all done after school, at home.

On Thursday evenings, she had field hockey practice, got a quick bite to eat, then 4 hours of fire-fighting training. She would get home at 10:00 at night, or later, and then begin her homework, finishing at 2 in the morning, or later.

Then she would get up at 6 On Friday to go to school.

Year after year. Studying, playing, practicing, training. She never quit, never took time off, never gave up.

She graduated Valedictorian in her high school class. Last week, she graduated from Yale. She starts medical school this fall.

Nothing was ever handed to her. Nothing was ever done for her.

She earned that spot all on her own, through discipline, hard work, focus and perseverance. She worked harder than any other kid in her class. No special favors, no "breaks" for who she knew. Pure determination on her part.

She embodies the American dream.

And you want to tear her down to help yourself. Take what she's earned. She's already going to pay half her income in taxes...how much more would satisfy your envy?

And that disgusts me...

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: chiefsfan1
so these marchers think they actually work FOR McDonalds? Do they not realize most McDonald's are franchises? Owned my ordinary people?

http://franchises.about.com/od/mostpopularfranchises/a/mcdonaldscosts.htm

An initial down payment is required when you purchase a new restaurant (40% of the total cost) or an existing restaurant (25% of the total cost). The down payment must come from non-borrowed personal resources, which include cash on hand; securities, bonds, and debentures; vested profit sharing (net of taxes); and business or real estate equity, exclusive of your personal residence.

Generally, you need a minimum of $300,000 of non-borrowed personal resources to be considered to open a McDonald's franchise. Individuals with additional funds may be better prepared for additional or multi-restaurant opportunities which McDOnald's encourages.

So how many ordinary people have that?

http://www.franchisedirect.com/foodfranchises/mcdonalds-franchise-07030/ufoc/

Yeah, sure. Ordinary people have that......

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: Trajan

Generally, you need a minimum of $300,000 of non-borrowed personal resources to be considered to open a McDonald's franchise. Individuals with additional funds may be better prepared for additional or multi-restaurant opportunities which McDOnald's encourages.

So how many ordinary people have that?


http://www.franchisedirect.com/foodfranchises/mcdonalds-franchise-07030/ufoc/

Yeah, sure. Ordinary people have that......


My electrician, who graduated high school, didn't go to college, and started his own business, has far more than that.

Pretty ordinary guy, who took the initiative, built the business, and has defined his own future.

It took him a couple decades to do it.

But yes, ordinary people can do it. They do it all the time.

And tearing them down, out of envy, jealousy, or just plain covetousness of your neighbor's success, is wrong...even if politicians continue to promise that tearing them down is just ensuring that they "pay their fair share".

The point that's missing is this: the debate pits those who have worked for decades and built something (a career, a life, a business) against those who haven't.

It pits the young against the old. It takes time to accomplish any of those things.

The girl in my example above will finish her residency when she is 32 years old. She will have over $200,000 in debt and only then will she make an income. An income that others will envy, and that politicians and protesters will use to label her as "rich" and " top 1%"...but it will have taken her decades to get there...

Your argument fails to account for all that work, all that time...and that's a completely unfair perspective.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: rjundi
EBT and welfare check is a patch until a better solution comes around. However taking it away has dire consequences with the stability of our country.

I think nothing wrong with using EBT or welfare to get yourself through a patch or educate your kids or self to better. I think people look really down upon this but I know good examples of working the system temporarily and achieving great things.

One case is a single mum(combat veteran too) with ability to make $50/hr as Speech Pathologist but chose to collect for great good of kids. She home schools, gets health insurance free for kids from state, and her daughter attended a $30k/year/private academy(#1) for free. The older is now attending Dartmouth and youngest in the academy too. She has since starting working again.

Working and sending her kids to terrible education locally would have not yielded great results.


No one said we should not take care of those who cannot work, thats a lot different than those who choose not to work (some for 3 generations like we have here in MA). If you are able to work and have the skills and choose not to use them to support yourself and family thats your problem no the taxpayers, they should get nothing!

The Woman you mention is taking advantage of the system, she should never have been allowed to rip the taxpayer off this way.
I call B.S. to collecting for the good of the kids, veteran or not. Look, you just admitted she could make $50 an hour, are you saying on 96K a year she couldn't sent he kids to a decent school?
On 96K a year she could have moved to a place where the schools are better, she was ripping off the system "for the good of the children" and your making it sound like she did a good thing.

 

[demarpaint]

I worked at five different car dealerships over a short time span. In one of the dealerships there was a salesman who started as a lot boy. He got in good with a manager who gave him a shot at sales, when I left that dealership that guy was making about $75K a year selling cars. Not bad for someone with a HS diploma, starting at minimum wage who was washing and moving cars around and keeping the lot clean. He had a lot of spunk, and wanted to better himself. It happens all the time, to those who actually try and not cry.

 

[dishdude]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: dishdude

Both of those posts are ridiculous! Both contain silly straw man arguments and regurgitated talking points from talk radio. This is a complex issue with many causes for why people are unable to sustain themselves and find opportunities. Some self inflicted, some not.


Wrong again, Dishdude.

No strawman in my post whatsoever. My 1% "guy" is real, the 1% line drawn from facts, his situation drawn from a personal understanding of the tax code and how it applies at that income level. I know, very personally, what it takes to succeed.

You can choose to ignore my post, claim it's a strawman, enabling your political position to align with your emotional sense about things, but that ignores the reality of the situation.

That convenient rationalization allows you to ignore facts, and keep playing into the hands of those that appeal to your emotion.

But the economic, statistical, truth about people with wealth remains. Rant against them all you like, but it doesn't change who they are, how you've stereotyped them, or how they're treated in this country and others.

You just keep on hatin'...keep on believing that the "rich" deserve your hate, keep supporting politicians who feed your envy...it's a lot easier on your ego than the reality of people's failure to seize the opportunities that they've been presented.

Let me give you a real example. Not a strawman. Not a fake. She went to public school. She worked hard, very hard, in that public school.

For her entire high school experience, she played an instrument, volunteered at the local fire department, played sports, and studied...her AP class schedule, and labs, meant that she couldn't do any homework during school hours. It was all done after school, at home.

On Thursday evenings, she had field hockey practice, got a quick bite to eat, then 4 hours of fire-fighting training. She would get home at 10:00 at night, or later, and then begin her homework, finishing at 2 in the morning, or later.

Then she would get up at 6 On Friday to go to school.

Year after year. Studying, playing, practicing, training. She never quit, never took time off, never gave up.

She graduated Valedictorian in her high school class. Last week, she graduated from Yale. She starts medical school this fall.

Nothing was ever handed to her. Nothing was ever done for her.

She earned that spot all on her own, through discipline, hard work, focus and perseverance. She worked harder than any other kid in her class. No special favors, no "breaks" for who she knew. Pure determination on her part.

She embodies the American dream.

And you want to tear her down to help yourself. Take what she's earned. She's already going to pay half her income in taxes...how much more would satisfy your envy?

And that disgusts me...


Where did I ever say I hated "rich" people or resented them? Where did I ever discuss taxation? I don't even know what a rich person would be considered. Where did I ever even bring up any type of class warfare? Thank you for projecting and putting words in my mouth, that disgusts me.

And thank you for that person's story. I can tell you a story about someone that bought a lottery ticket once in their life and won $250 million but neither story is getting to the root of the problem.

For the record, anyone working is probably paying half of their income to taxes, I know I am. What about all the waste in the defense spending? Other useless government programs? Your friend's income is being taken and sent out of the country, not taken and given to the poor in this country.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
now some folks are grumbling in that direction and we act like it's 19th century France. Maybe it is.

more like 20th century East Germany. Seriously!

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: dishdude
Where did I ever say I hated "rich" people or resented them? Where did I ever discuss taxation? I don't even know what a rich person would be considered. Where did I ever even bring up any type of class warfare? Thank you for projecting and putting words in my mouth, that disgusts me.

And thank you for that person's story. I can tell you a story about someone that bought a lottery ticket once in their life and won $250 million but neither story is getting to the root of the problem.

For the record, anyone working is probably paying half of their income to taxes, I know I am. What about all the waste in the defense spending? Other useless government programs? Your friend's income is being taken and sent out of the country, not taken and given to the poor in this country.

Sigh...

You called my post ridiculous and claimed I had a strawman. I had neither, but I did discuss taxes. So, I bring that up.

If you're paying one half of your income in income taxes, then YOU'RE IN THE TOP 5%!! You're the very thing that you rail against.

Or, perhaps, you really don't understand taxes. You pay a bit in FICA, a bit in SS, a bit to local, and state....and it sucks, I get that, so, perhaps your tax burden seems high to you, but unless you're over $250K, you're not paying anywhere near half of your income in taxes.

It's quite clear that you don't understand the federal budget. The military, including overseas operations, consumes 19% of the total. Most of that stays here: salaries, construction, procurement, and other $$ plowed back into our economy. About 3% of the federal budget is spent on overseas operations, but even that doesn't all go overseas, it's paid to US companies to supply our forces overseas.

Most of our federal budget, over half, is paid to people, in the form of federal programs and entitlements. That's where most of the money goes right now, even if it doesn't seem like enough for you...

Finally, my story was one of hard work.

Your lottery story was one of luck.

And that's the critical difference, the difference that you refuse to see.

 

[Win]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Instead of protesting how about they get a real job?


Uh they show up for work, have a boss, take [censored] from customers, and get a (meager) paycheck. It is a real job, I respect it, and I demand you do the same.


It is a real job, and many people here do not respect it ( I don't fancy myself as one of them, btw ), but so what? Disrespecting the job doesn't make the proposed solution into a viable one.

The way to ease the plight of the working class stiff is to build a robust economy where labor is in demand and the people at the bottom end of the economy have a wider selection of jobs to apply themselves to.

For decades, we've pursued policies of job destruction, vilification of job creators, and added adulteration of the labor force with massive quantities of illegals to add insult to the injury.

The death spiral will continue until corrective control inputs are applied.