Some possibly dumb questions about Subaru turbos

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I havent finished reading the thread or comprehending what the internet said about turbocharger operation, but, how can a turbo increase the velocity of air as it hits the scroll. It seems to me that it would just freewheel. Barring the use of venturies, i just cannot see how this can happen.

And, ahem. Wwilson, if i offend anyone by not starting a thread on this, please notify me and i will tryto delete it to prevent further scolding.
 
Originally Posted By: skyactiv
I owned an 07' WRX I bought new and sold with 136K on it. I have some UOA's posted on here. The only issue I had with my car was the clutch slave cylinder going out. I went to a Perrin map stage 2 tune around 61K and my car did mid 13's in the 1/4 mile. I ran mostly Valvoline Synpower 5W30 at 4K intervals. There is a guy on Nasioc that needs to swallow a Xanax anytime WRX and 5W30 is mentioned in the same paragraph.


NASIOC is a wealth of knowledge (member since 2001) but also a wealth of FUD.

There certainly have been issues with the 2.5 (ring lands) but for stock or lightly modified cars, the stats don't add up to a conclusion that 30w will destroy your car. I also got a kick out of the panic posts putting down 30w in a scooby.

I ran the EJ207 in my 02 WRX over 150K mostly on wait for it...wait for it...M1 5/30. I used some UOA's in the 2000's to trend up to 7500 mi/annual OCIs. I ran it as a stage 2 for most of its life.

Original turbo and 5sp, still in service with a friend of mine.

The last 2 years of its life I switched to m1 0w40 as a lighter 40w oil that I stocked in my garage since other cars required this. We know its a bit of a 'light' 40w from VOA. Never bothered to UOA it.

I'd have zero issues running longer OCIs but since its a new car, start with 5K, trend with UOA up to 7500 or what not and call it a day.

- b
 
Originally Posted By: bvl
Originally Posted By: skyactiv
I owned an 07' WRX I bought new and sold with 136K on it. I have some UOA's posted on here. The only issue I had with my car was the clutch slave cylinder going out. I went to a Perrin map stage 2 tune around 61K and my car did mid 13's in the 1/4 mile. I ran mostly Valvoline Synpower 5W30 at 4K intervals. There is a guy on Nasioc that needs to swallow a Xanax anytime WRX and 5W30 is mentioned in the same paragraph.


NASIOC is a wealth of knowledge (member since 2001) but also a wealth of FUD.

There certainly have been issues with the 2.5 (ring lands) but for stock or lightly modified cars, the stats don't add up to a conclusion that 30w will destroy your car. I also got a kick out of the panic posts putting down 30w in a scooby.

I ran the EJ207 in my 02 WRX over 150K mostly on wait for it...wait for it...M1 5/30. I used some UOA's in the 2000's to trend up to 7500 mi/annual OCIs. I ran it as a stage 2 for most of its life.

Original turbo and 5sp, still in service with a friend of mine.

The last 2 years of its life I switched to m1 0w40 as a lighter 40w oil that I stocked in my garage since other cars required this. We know its a bit of a 'light' 40w from VOA. Never bothered to UOA it.

I'd have zero issues running longer OCIs but since its a new car, start with 5K, trend with UOA up to 7500 or what not and call it a day.

- b

I would say that the 2.0 is a little easier on oil and less problematic than the 2.5. My friend is lucky as heck that his is still running given all that he's put it through. Not properly keeping track of his OCI, thinking he drained his oil and drained his ATF instead and still added 5 qts to the oil sump, etc.

He is amazed of the amount of turbo and engine work that I've had to do.
 
Originally Posted By: bulwnkl
I found that RLI 5W40HD was significantly superior to everything else, including other RLI fluids. Nothing else resisted fuel as well, nor returned as good mpg, nor could match it for low oil consumption, nor could match its wear rates in my last turbo Subie, an '05 Baja.

Wow! Blast from the past!

Consumption on the 5W40HD was lower than on the 10W30HD?
 
Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Okay, I will.
Turbo Subies are typically fine with synthetic forty weight oils changed on 5K intervals.
The turbo will often last the life of the car.
Subaru has been making these things for decades now.
They know what it takes to make them work.
I currently own two NA Subraus.
You?


1999 subaru forester, replaced the head gaskets, steering rack, amongst other items that i cant recall. she's had it for 3 years and the catalytic converter is starting to plug up but otherwise its fine.

1998 subaru forester for parts, repaired upper vehicle with some of it. scrapped it to a junkyard when i was done with it.

1997 subaru legacy 5mt 2.2l, replaced the clutch, used an ozone machine to attempt to get rid of smoke smell, worked somewhat, replaced other various bits on it, sold to a nice local guy.

bought a JDM EJ25D from ebay, replaced the head gaskets, never used it, sold to a guy a couple hundred miles to the south.

2004 subaru forester xt with a blown auto transmission, fixed it, repainted it, sold it to a nice washington state transplant.

2005 subaru legacy gt, blown turbo, replaced it and a few other bits, flipped it to a jerk who had buyers remorse but tough luck pal.

2012 subaru outback cvt, great highway cruiser, sold it after a little over 1 year because i was bored with it.

in my judgement my after quite a bit of amateur research and hands on experience on my part has told me that subaru turbo's explode after 100k. however they are a joy to work on. if your interested in more just google my forum name, you'll see it all over the place asking for humble help. i feel famous now, thanks for asking nicely.



Did you own those turbo's from new or unknown prior owner maintenace? I have had two brand new turbo cars from Subaru(04 wrx sold/05 lgt wagon currnetly) and the turbo's have both done nearly twice the 100k lifespan you suggest with dino 5w30/4k intervals. I have no idea what happens 200k+ though and will find out with our 05 LGT.

Maybe I am lucky(with turbos) or the research you have are the unlucky ones. People who don't have problems don't tend to be attracted to forums.
 
Originally Posted By: rjundi

Did you own those turbo's from new or unknown prior owner maintenace? I have had two brand new turbo cars from Subaru(04 wrx sold/05 lgt wagon currnetly) and the turbo's have both done nearly twice the 100k lifespan you suggest with dino 5w30/4k intervals. I have no idea what happens 200k+ though and will find out with our 05 LGT.

Maybe I am lucky(with turbos) or the research you have are the unlucky ones. People who don't have problems don't tend to be attracted to forums.


No, i flip about 3-4 cars a year. I usually research the heck out of them during that time when doing repairs. i read plenty of horror stories of them grenading the engine block, so much so that when i flip cars i make a point to avoid them from now on. i do not dispute turbochargers going for a long time, but its very well documented when they let go, enough to warn someone when they ask.
 
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Well this is all interesting, but I am not sure what the take-away should be...

Nobody disputes that the various 5w40s are great anywhere it isn't really cold, the various Euro certed 0w30s and 0w40s are also great and that 5w30 synthetic isn't a death sentence for the turbo (I personally would only use a 5w30 with the HTO-06 rating and probably only in "winter" or as a last resort).

I am surprised that nobody has really said ignore that short OCI, are turbo Subies really that tough on oil? If a good 5w30 synthetic is adequate for 3750 miles of not-crazy driving, shouldn't a stouter oil be good for longer? Is the primary concern that banjo bolt screen, and if Subaru stopped doing that doesn't pulling it (at least on the turbo side) make sense? Again, this is largely academic since I don't usually do even 2 oil changes a year and I always get some kind of deal on the oil. I guess I just don't get it, other 4 cylinder turbos seem to be fine with longer OCIs...

Thanks, Doug
 
Originally Posted By: dvancleve
Well this is all interesting, but I am not sure what the take-away should be...

Nobody disputes that the various 5w40s are great anywhere it isn't really cold, the various Euro certed 0w30s and 0w40s are also great and that 5w30 synthetic isn't a death sentence for the turbo (I personally would only use a 5w30 with the HTO-06 rating and probably only in "winter" or as a last resort).

I am surprised that nobody has really said ignore that short OCI, are turbo Subies really that tough on oil? If a good 5w30 synthetic is adequate for 3750 miles of not-crazy driving, shouldn't a stouter oil be good for longer? Is the primary concern that banjo bolt screen, and if Subaru stopped doing that doesn't pulling it (at least on the turbo side) make sense? Again, this is largely academic since I don't usually do even 2 oil changes a year and I always get some kind of deal on the oil. I guess I just don't get it, other 4 cylinder turbos seem to be fine with longer OCIs...

Thanks, Doug


Actually Subies have been traditionally very good and easy going on oil (Save for the recent FB that likes to sip a little bit of the 0w20). Just start looking through some of the UOA reports. If you want to make a oil look good, give it to a Subie, even the turbos. There is at least one recent horror story about a modified WRX drinking oil and dropping metal but the rest seem to be fairly tame. Basically, as long as you are not flogging them like a meth-ed up highschooler, they are not oil/fluid-sensitive.
 
Originally Posted By: dvancleve
Well this is all interesting, but I am not sure what the take-away should be...

Nobody disputes that the various 5w40s are great anywhere it isn't really cold, the various Euro certed 0w30s and 0w40s are also great and that 5w30 synthetic isn't a death sentence for the turbo (I personally would only use a 5w30 with the HTO-06 rating and probably only in "winter" or as a last resort).

I am surprised that nobody has really said ignore that short OCI, are turbo Subies really that tough on oil? If a good 5w30 synthetic is adequate for 3750 miles of not-crazy driving, shouldn't a stouter oil be good for longer? Is the primary concern that banjo bolt screen, and if Subaru stopped doing that doesn't pulling it (at least on the turbo side) make sense? Again, this is largely academic since I don't usually do even 2 oil changes a year and I always get some kind of deal on the oil. I guess I just don't get it, other 4 cylinder turbos seem to be fine with longer OCIs...

Thanks, Doug

Yes, Subaru turbos are that hard on oil. Especially the early 2.5's. If you use a typical 5W30 and you still have the banjo bolt screens, I would definitely follow Subaru's 3,750 mile OCI recommendation.

Stouter oils are good for longer, but nobody here is going to put up money for your turbo replacement to back up that claim. I can give you 2000 rea$on$ not to take the chance. And don't be misguided thinking that a good uoa will be confirmation that all is well.

Even Amsoil does not recommend exceeding Subaru's OCI because of the banjo bolt issues. THAT is saying something, IMO.

Plug in your car on Amsoil's product lookup guide and you get this:

Quote:
Subaru has published Service Bulletin # 02-103-07 that identifies a factory design related problem with premature clogging of the oil mesh screen located inside the oiling system that supplies the turbo charger on all model turbo charged cars. A clogged screen will result in oil starvation and turbo charger failure.

Subaru has since published Service Bulletin #02-110-10R indicating that 2010 MY and prior turbocharged engines continue to require oil and filter change intervals of 3,750 miles (6,000 km) or 3 3/4 months, while all 2011 MY turbocharged engines have returned to the original requirement of 7,500 miles (12,000 km) or 7 1/2 months, and they are required to use synthetic oil. Due to the issues outlined in this document, AMSOIL recommends following Subaru drain interval recommendations.
 
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Originally Posted By: bluesubie
Yes, Subaru turbos are that hard on oil. Especially the early 2.5's. If you use a typical 5W30 and you still have the banjo bolt screens, I would definitely follow Subaru's 3,750 mile OCI recommendation.

Stouter oils are good for longer, but nobody here is going to put up money for your turbo replacement to back up that claim. I can give you 2000 rea$on$ not to take the chance. And don't be misguided thinking that a good uoa will be confirmation that all is well.

Even Amsoil does not recommend exceeding Subaru's OCI because of the banjo bolt issues. THAT is saying something, IMO.

Plug in your car on Amsoil's product lookup guide and you get this:

Subaru has published Service Bulletin # 02-103-07 that identifies a factory design related problem with premature clogging of the oil mesh screen located inside the oiling system that supplies the turbo charger on all model turbo charged cars. A clogged screen will result in oil starvation and turbo charger failure.

Subaru has since published Service Bulletin #02-110-10R indicating that 2010 MY and prior turbocharged engines continue to require oil and filter change intervals of 3,750 miles (6,000 km) or 3 3/4 months, while all 2011 MY turbocharged engines have returned to the original requirement of 7,500 miles (12,000 km) or 7 1/2 months, and they are required to use synthetic oil. Due to the issues outlined in this document, AMSOIL recommends following Subaru drain interval recommendations.


Thanks bluesubie
smile.gif


So do you take this to mean the banjo bolt screen is the primary concern? I see 3 issues leading to the short OCIs: the banjo bolt screens, the 5w30 specification/recommendation and apparently they are just hard on oil. It seems to me that at least the turbo side screen should be removed (not terribly difficult) and it is still probably best to go with stouter oil than 5w30. If those are both done, do you think the OCI should still stay short?

Doug
 
Originally Posted By: bluesubie
Even Amsoil does not recommend exceeding Subaru's OCI because of the banjo bolt issues. THAT is saying something, IMO.

Plug in your car on Amsoil's product lookup guide and you get this:

"Subaru has published Service Bulletin # 02-103-07 that identifies a factory design related problem with premature clogging of the oil mesh screen located inside the oiling system that supplies the turbo charger on all model turbo charged cars. A clogged screen will result in oil starvation and turbo charger failure.

Subaru has since published Service Bulletin #02-110-10R indicating that 2010 MY and prior turbocharged engines continue to require oil and filter change intervals of 3,750 miles (6,000 km) or 3 3/4 months, while all 2011 MY turbocharged engines have returned to the original requirement of 7,500 miles (12,000 km) or 7 1/2 months, and they are required to use synthetic oil. Due to the issues outlined in this document, AMSOIL recommends following Subaru drain interval recommendations."


Re-reading this, it seems to me that if the turbo side banjo screen is removed and sythetic oil is used, the longer OCI should be fine. The 2.5turbo hasn't really changed much over the years. It looks to me like Subaru stuck with the 3750 OCI for the older cars so dino oil could still be used...

Thanks again, Doug

P.S. I would have edited my earlier response to include this revelation, if I could have
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: bluesubie

Wow! Blast from the past!

Consumption on the 5W40HD was lower than on the 10W30HD?


Yep. The 5W40HD was the best in all ways.

For others' benefit: I was in SE Idaho at that time. That's a COLD climate.
 
Back in the day 20 years ago any one of my friends that had turbo motors ran only Mobil 1 15w50. No matter what the owners manual would say that's what they ran and never had a problem.
 
Originally Posted By: dvancleve
Originally Posted By: bluesubie
Even Amsoil does not recommend exceeding Subaru's OCI because of the banjo bolt issues. THAT is saying something, IMO.

Plug in your car on Amsoil's product lookup guide and you get this:

"Subaru has published Service Bulletin # 02-103-07 that identifies a factory design related problem with premature clogging of the oil mesh screen located inside the oiling system that supplies the turbo charger on all model turbo charged cars. A clogged screen will result in oil starvation and turbo charger failure.

Subaru has since published Service Bulletin #02-110-10R indicating that 2010 MY and prior turbocharged engines continue to require oil and filter change intervals of 3,750 miles (6,000 km) or 3 3/4 months, while all 2011 MY turbocharged engines have returned to the original requirement of 7,500 miles (12,000 km) or 7 1/2 months, and they are required to use synthetic oil. Due to the issues outlined in this document, AMSOIL recommends following Subaru drain interval recommendations."


Re-reading this, it seems to me that if the turbo side banjo screen is removed and sythetic oil is used, the longer OCI should be fine. The 2.5turbo hasn't really changed much over the years. It looks to me like Subaru stuck with the 3750 OCI for the older cars so dino oil could still be used...

Thanks again, Doug

P.S. I would have edited my earlier response to include this revelation, if I could have
wink.gif


If the banjo bolt filter is removed, and if you use a robust synthetic, yes you can probably get away with a longer OCI's. How long do you want to go? I know there is someone on legacygt.com running 15k intervals on Amsoil with a bypass filter set up in a Legacy turbo.

This is an interesting article in Drive that appeared after Subaru mandated the 3,750 OCI for turbos.

http://drive2.subaru.com/Sum08/Sum08_Turbo.htm
 
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Pretty eye opening...

"....Under normal driving conditions, the recommended oil and oil filter change interval for turbo vehicles is every 3,750 miles or four months, whichever comes first.
However, for vehicles driven in conditions beyond normal, such as racing conditions, the oil and oil filter may require more frequent changes."

Hyundai is pretty conservative too with a 5000 mile max on our 2.0T.
 
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Here's an example of why it's tough to recommend an extended interval in this engine.

Quote:
I was driving home from a concert about 200 miles from home and the turbo let loose. Getting it home was a treat (it took 11 hours to get home). ...First off the oil was very clean, the car has always ran synthetic as I have records from the original owner and I use Rotella T6 oil and a wix filter and change it every 4k miles. I was about 500 miles from an oil change. The oil was still clean and dropped it in a clean pan.

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.ph...tal-241252.html

Looks like a new oil return line is also a good idea.

That reminds me that my failure happened about 3 hours into a trip from NJ to SC. I left a trail of smoke down I95 and back adding various oil along the way for top up (mainly Delo 15W40). One guy approached me at a rest area and told me that it smelled like gunpowder.
57.gif
 
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Run Mobil one synthetic and drive it till it dies.I actually have never heard of this happening.Except for people who modify the turbo and like run mega amounts of boost.
 
Originally Posted By: ron17571
Run Mobil one synthetic and drive it till it dies.I actually have never heard of this happening.Except for people who modify the turbo and like run mega amounts of boost.


You've never heard of what happening? Turbo failure? Mine happened when I was stock and there have been many others on stock 2.5T's.
 
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