Found ATF in my manual trans...

[IndyIan]

In the last few weeks I've noticed the Focus trans becoming a little balky on the first few shifts in the mornings, which I thought was strange as its getting warmer out.
I did some searching and found that ATF can cause some bushings to stick when moved by the shift forks, bad enough to lock up the shifting completely. Now a couple years ago I bought the fancy XT-M5-QS full syn ford trans fluid for $25/quart and planned to change it myself, but things got busy and I had my wife take the car to a local garage to get the engine oil changed and change the trans fluid as well using the fluid I provided... She came home and the quarts of XT-M5-QS were gone, the car shifted well, so I thought everything was good.
But when I drained the trans this weekend, it was nice red ATF that came out instead of the amber XT-M5-QS... And of course that particular receipt didn't end up in the glove box file either.
The good news is that the ATF had very little darkening, so I think it didn't cause any catastrophic wear, and the trans is shifting quite well now with the proper fluid in it, so I think I'm in the clear.
I guess the lesson is to DIY, or atleast don't send someone else to get work done on the car that's not stupid simple.
I don't know if the mechanic at the garage kept my trans fluid on purpose, or maybe just set it aside and forgot to use it, but without the receipt I'm not going to bother accusing them of anything, but I'm not going back either.
To add some confusion, Ford did initially ship early focus's with ATF in the trans, but it lead to this problem and in 2001 they switched to the current fluid, so maybe they thought it was fine, or perhaps all-data said its OK.

 

[901Memphis]

A lot of manufacturers recommend ATF as a compromise to simplicity. It's not optimal but it usually "works". A dedicated MTL is much better.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Is your transmission a Tremec? They recommend ATF in their manual transmissions.

 

[bdcardinal]

Your Focus should have the XT-M5-QS in it.

 

[IndyIan]

Its a Getrag mtx75, I found it weird though that the people found in the Contours in the 90's that ATF jammed up the shift fork bushings, but Ford still tried ATF in the Focus.
ATF did work pretty well for 30k miles I suppose.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Did you refill with the "tranny honey" this time? Pretty much anything but gear oil seems to work in them. My concern with the ATF would be losing the spiders in a burnout situation (snow, ice).

I am tempted to try T6 or M1 5w-50 in mine. They seem to be popular with Terry Haines, who is the MTX75 authority apparently. If The T6 or M1 works on a turbocharged Focus - I'm sure it will handle my NA not-spirited driving.

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
Did you refill with the "tranny honey" this time? Pretty much anything but gear oil seems to work in them. My concern with the ATF would be losing the spiders in a burnout situation (snow, ice).

I am tempted to try T6 or M1 5w-50 in mine. They seem to be popular with the person who is the MTX75 Authority.

Yep I bought the ford good stuff. I guess if I thought about it, I could've ran some T6 for a few miles to flush out the ATF and then put in the XT-M5-QS.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

The factory stuff to the XT-M5-QS was a good change for mine. All gears (except 2nd) shifted better. That seems to be getting better with age, though. The reason I changed mine out was to see if it helped with 2nd gear

When the car had 20K miles, there was a 9/10 chance that it would NOT go into 2nd gear shifting up or down. Now it's about 1/10.

 

[Whimsey]

I have the same tranny in my 1996 Zetec Contour. Factory spec was ATF. However in 2000-2001 they changed to a Motorcraft 75W-90 trans axle fluid and back spec'd older MTX75's to use it. There was a wear condition with ATF in this tranny. After some back and forth where the dealer refused to use anything but ATF in that tranny. I got some recommended Royal Purple SynchroMax for the Contour and my manual tranny F-150 and had my indie install it. In the Contour the shifting is the same quality as with Mobil 1 ATF but at least it won't cause tranny damage. The truck shifts so much better with the Royal Purple SynchroMax compared to any ATF I used previously.

Whimsey

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Its a Getrag mtx75, I found it weird though that the people found in the Contours in the 90's that ATF jammed up the shift fork bushings, but Ford still tried ATF in the Focus.
ATF did work pretty well for 30k miles I suppose.


It worked fine in the T-5 in the Mustang, Capri and Thunderbird. Just depends on the tranny.

 

[Dyusik]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
Did you refill with the "tranny honey" this time? Pretty much anything but gear oil seems to work in them. My concern with the ATF would be losing the spiders in a burnout situation (snow, ice).

I am tempted to try T6 or M1 5w-50 in mine. They seem to be popular with Terry Haines, who is the MTX75 authority apparently. If The T6 or M1 works on a turbocharged Focus - I'm sure it will handle my NA not-spirited driving.


I used T6 for my Jeep's AX-15. Nothing different than what was in it before. I have used a mix of oils that came out like 75 degree honey would out of a jar, and did not notice any difference either. Maybe the transmission isn't picky, or it doesn't make a difference what you put in there. T6 worked great in my bike, though the awesome smooth shifting was short lived.

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
The factory stuff to the XT-M5-QS was a good change for mine. All gears (except 2nd) shifted better. That seems to be getting better with age, though. The reason I changed mine out was to see if it helped with 2nd gear

When the car had 20K miles, there was a 9/10 chance that it would NOT go into 2nd gear shifting up or down. Now it's about 1/10.

With the ATF, mine was actually have trouble going into 1st, particularly from N while sitting at a stoplight. I had to touch 2nd and then it would easily go into 1st, but then it started having issues last week going into any gear from N if it sat for a while with the clutch out when it was cold.
Now sometimes it has a little resistance going into 1st from N when stopped but easily goes into any other gear regardless of trans temperature.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Is your transmission a Tremec? They recommend ATF in their manual transmissions.
AS did Volvo in the RWD days. But, your fluid ended up in someone's "wicked good" oil collection.

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Is your transmission a Tremec? They recommend ATF in their manual transmissions.
AS did Volvo in the RWD days. But, your fluid ended up in someone's "wicked good" oil collection.

They did have a semi serious rwd drag car kicking around, but I doubt it had a manual trans. Everything else there was a dark GM, truck, grand prix, and a Sunfire.... Maybe the XT-M5-QS went into it?
Oh well, I haven't been back in the last two years anyways, as its not that handy to leave a car there when I'm working.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: Miller88
The factory stuff to the XT-M5-QS was a good change for mine. All gears (except 2nd) shifted better. That seems to be getting better with age, though. The reason I changed mine out was to see if it helped with 2nd gear

When the car had 20K miles, there was a 9/10 chance that it would NOT go into 2nd gear shifting up or down. Now it's about 1/10.

With the ATF, mine was actually have trouble going into 1st, particularly from N while sitting at a stoplight. I had to touch 2nd and then it would easily go into 1st, but then it started having issues last week going into any gear from N if it sat for a while with the clutch out when it was cold.
Now sometimes it has a little resistance going into 1st from N when stopped but easily goes into any other gear regardless of trans temperature.


Interesting! With it in neutral (assuming clutch out), it is spinning the input shaft and the gears attached to that - to get it in to gear, the synchros would be used. I wonder if the ATF wasn't able to properly lubricate the synchros or act as a "brake" to the input shaft well enough to get it to go in to gear.




Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Is your transmission a Tremec? They recommend ATF in their manual transmissions.
AS did Volvo in the RWD days. But, your fluid ended up in someone's "wicked good" oil collection.


Remember - some manual transmissions have pumps in them that can not pump anything thicker than AT fluid or light motor oil. Filled with AT Fluid and have a pump; they can't properly lubricate with gear oil.


Originally Posted By: Dyusik
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Did you refill with the "tranny honey" this time? Pretty much anything but gear oil seems to work in them. My concern with the ATF would be losing the spiders in a burnout situation (snow, ice).

I am tempted to try T6 or M1 5w-50 in mine. They seem to be popular with Terry Haines, who is the MTX75 authority apparently. If The T6 or M1 works on a turbocharged Focus - I'm sure it will handle my NA not-spirited driving.


I used T6 for my Jeep's AX-15. Nothing different than what was in it before. I have used a mix of oils that came out like 75 degree honey would out of a jar, and did not notice any difference either. Maybe the transmission isn't picky, or it doesn't make a difference what you put in there. T6 worked great in my bike, though the awesome smooth shifting was short lived.


My only concern with the transaxle is differential and shearing forces that happen in a differential. It wouldn't be as bad in a transmission. What is the AX-15 supposed to have? I never played with fluid on that, but I remember that we had a NV3550 on a 04 TJ that had AT Fluid from the factory. It was leaking when it was delivered to us.

 

[Dyusik]

AX15 specs 10w30 since GL3 became an endangered species. GL3 originally in a 75w90 weight, I think.