UOA: M1 AFE 0w20 Honda Accord 2.4 (5,401mi/7mo)

[gregk24]

2006 Honda Accord 2.4 130K, used Mobil 1 AFE 0w20 with a Fram Ultra. In service for 5,104 miles / 7.5 months 20% on the MM. Most of the driving was back and forth to work which is either 1-5 miles depending on which route I take. 1000 miles or so was highway from two separate trips. Two things concern me, the tin and the fuel. I have driven the same way for the past 3.5 years and I have never had fuel in the UOA's, I also never had tin. I am even more a conservative driver now than I was when I got the car so why is tin up? Also, what does tin come from? I did have the air box open twice but silicon stayed nice and low. Overall I am pleased, just not happy about the tin or fuel. What say you BITOGer's?

 

[The Critic]

Have you had a valve adjustment done on this car?

 

[gregk24]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
Have you had a valve adjustment done on this car?
Yes, at 100K

 

[dmiko]

When were spark plugs replaced?

 

[gregk24]

Originally Posted By: dmiko
When were spark plugs replaced?


Yes, they certainly were.

 

[Clevy]

How does the tin compare against your trended data?

Never mind. I just looked at the previous reports.

Greg. It's a couple PPM. Do you seriously believe their equipment is accurate enough to get the exact same results twice if they tested the same sample?
It is possible the tin is residual from an unclean machine.

And a couple ppm is nothing. Like for real,seriously. It's so minute I cannot believe you brought it up,especially since a used oil analysis is in no way an accurate measure of wear.
An anomaly of 30ppm might be worth noting but this is ridiculous.

 

[dernp]

I look at 2ppm like this: take a needle and throw it in a hay stack. Now stand back 100 ft. Do you think you can see the needle now?

 

[gregk24]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
How does the tin compare against your trended data?

Never mind. I just looked at the previous reports.

Greg. It's a couple PPM. Do you seriously believe their equipment is accurate enough to get the exact same results twice if they tested the same sample?
It is possible the tin is residual from an unclean machine.

And a couple ppm is nothing. Like for real,seriously. It's so minute I cannot believe you brought it up,especially since a used oil analysis is in no way an accurate measure of wear.
An anomaly of 30ppm might be worth noting but this is ridiculous.



Well last time they actually tested it 3 times because of the spike of tin, without me asking! First time was 2PPM, next was 0, third was 3. Yet, ALL the other metals remained the exact same.

 

[toneydoc]

I suspect that the fuel in your oil caused some of the metals in your engine to be cleaned more than normal which resulted in the dramatic increase in your tin level. An increase from 1 to 2 is a 100% increase. That is bad news.

I hope you find out where the fuel dilution is coming from so that the motor does not continue to shed the tin.

Has it been running worse lately? Missing a lot? Let us know

 

[gregk24]

Originally Posted By: toneydoc
I suspect that the fuel in your oil caused some of the metals in your engine to be cleaned more than normal which resulted in the dramatic increase in your tin level. An increase from 1 to 2 is a 100% increase. That is bad news.

I hope you find out where the fuel dilution is coming from so that the motor does not continue to shed the tin.

Has it been running worse lately? Missing a lot? Let us know


Hoping this is a joke...

 

[Phishin]

Greg....you worried about 2ppm tin, yet hope toneydoc is joking?? LOL!!

There is ZERO statistical difference between Non-Detected and 2ppm on Blackstone's ICP-OES running UOA's.

They already proved that to you by running it 3 times and getting 0, 2, and 3ppm. This is called NOISE.

 

[deven]

When I used to correspond with Terry Dyson, he used to tell me that if Tin spikes it usually has to do with oil being too thin or having thinned out during an OCI. Take it FWIW.

 

[k24a4]

Yes, Tonydoc was joking.

As for the fuel, was the car fully warmed up before you sampled, "hot", as they say?

At 2ppm I agree that the Tin is noise and nothing to worry about.

Trust me, I have zero doubt that the K24 will outlive the rest of the car. The new DI versions seem to be shedding more metal, but they, too, will outlive the body. Honda is one of the premier engine builders in the world, and they hit this one out of the park.

After running numerous UOA on my car I've learned to take them with a grain of salt. Unless something is way way way out-of-wack I'm not worrying about temporary fluctuations. I'm less concerned about the lubricity of the oil and more concerned about running it low and having the chain tensioner go.

Enjoy the car, and thanks for posting!

 

[bigt61]

Yeah, 2ppm tin is no sweat, but just for fun, try a 5k run of 5W-30 and see what you get. You're in FL, 5W-30 in an old car won't hurt.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/engine-oil-analysis/

 

[zpinch]

Originally Posted By: k24a4
Yes, Tonydoc was joking.

As for the fuel, was the car fully warmed up before you sampled, "hot", as they say?

At 2ppm I agree that the Tin is noise and nothing to worry about.

Trust me, I have zero doubt that the K24 will outlive the rest of the car. The new DI versions seem to be shedding more metal, but they, too, will outlive the body. Honda is one of the premier engine builders in the world, and they hit this one out of the park.

After running numerous UOA on my car I've learned to take them with a grain of salt. Unless something is way way way out-of-wack I'm not worrying about temporary fluctuations. I'm less concerned about the lubricity of the oil and more concerned about running it low and having the chain tensioner go.

Enjoy the car, and thanks for posting!


They have been cheapening the production of the K24 engine over the years, the K24a1 in my CRV is IMO, one of the better units. But still, they are all fantastic engines.

 

[Phishin]

Originally Posted By: zpinch


They have been cheapening the production of the K24 engine over the years, the K24a1 in my CRV is IMO, one of the better units. But still, they are all fantastic engines.



How have they been cheapening the engines?

 

[zpinch]

Well I shouldn't say cheapened per say, trimmed down... the K24a1 is a fully counter balanced engine.

 

[Phishin]

Originally Posted By: zpinch
Well I shouldn't say cheapened per say, trimmed down... the K24a1 is a fully counter balanced engine.


So, what's different about the K24a3 (I think) in my 2010 vs. the K24a1 or vs the K24W (Earth Dream)?

 

[wi11iam]

Originally Posted By: zpinch
Well I shouldn't say cheapened per say, trimmed down... the K24a1 is a fully counter balanced engine.


I think the incremental benefits to each K series motor far outweighs the fact that the k24a1 is counterbalanced...

See below for the engine by engine description and note the improvements to all of them..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_K_engine#K24

 

[gregk24]

Originally Posted By: k24a4
Yes, Tonydoc was joking.

As for the fuel, was the car fully warmed up before you sampled, "hot", as they say?

At 2ppm I agree that the Tin is noise and nothing to worry about.

Trust me, I have zero doubt that the K24 will outlive the rest of the car. The new DI versions seem to be shedding more metal, but they, too, will outlive the body. Honda is one of the premier engine builders in the world, and they hit this one out of the park.

After running numerous UOA on my car I've learned to take them with a grain of salt. Unless something is way way way out-of-wack I'm not worrying about temporary fluctuations. I'm less concerned about the lubricity of the oil and more concerned about running it low and having the chain tensioner go.

Enjoy the car, and thanks for posting!


Sounds good, thanks! I guess Ill keep on with the 5K / 15% MM OCI's. Seems ok even with my driving pattern. Just was concerned with the elevated tin over the past two OCI's. My OCD was kicking in.