Well, time is nothing for opinions
... Unless there is another thread with better conclusions, that google didn't found!
Is this guy really stating facts about POE's?
- Thread starter tekmoe
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Originally Posted By: Pontual
Ok, but what if using just a 10% jet oil (100% POE) in a groupII to improve detergency? Seals won't suffer neither viscosity will be dramatically lowered, since I run 10w40 oils and majority like 0w20 oils.
is jet-oil non-additized?
Ok, but what if using just a 10% jet oil (100% POE) in a groupII to improve detergency? Seals won't suffer neither viscosity will be dramatically lowered, since I run 10w40 oils and majority like 0w20 oils.
is jet-oil non-additized?
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Pontual
Ok, but what if using just a 10% jet oil (100% POE) in a groupII to improve detergency? Seals won't suffer neither viscosity will be dramatically lowered, since I run 10w40 oils and majority like 0w20 oils.
You just revived a 10 year old thread..........
A friendly reminder that anything we post on the internet is never dead..it can be found in over 3 million BITOG posts and brought to life lol
Originally Posted By: Pontual
Ok, but what if using just a 10% jet oil (100% POE) in a groupII to improve detergency? Seals won't suffer neither viscosity will be dramatically lowered, since I run 10w40 oils and majority like 0w20 oils.
You just revived a 10 year old thread..........
A friendly reminder that anything we post on the internet is never dead..it can be found in over 3 million BITOG posts and brought to life lol
MolaKule
Staff member
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
Originally Posted By: Pontual
Ok, but what if using just a 10% jet oil (100% POE) in a groupII to improve detergency? Seals won't suffer neither viscosity will be dramatically lowered, since I run 10w40 oils and majority like 0w20 oils.
is jet-oil non-additized?
If you are referring to jet turbine oils, yes.
Thy use about a 5.5 cSt pentaerythritol ester with super-duper AW, AO, and AC additives, all ashless.
Originally Posted By: Pontual
Ok, but what if using just a 10% jet oil (100% POE) in a groupII to improve detergency? Seals won't suffer neither viscosity will be dramatically lowered, since I run 10w40 oils and majority like 0w20 oils.
is jet-oil non-additized?
If you are referring to jet turbine oils, yes.
Thy use about a 5.5 cSt pentaerythritol ester with super-duper AW, AO, and AC additives, all ashless.
Last edited:
As Mola said, jet turbine engine oils are about 95% polyol ester and contain anti-wear, anti-oxidant, and anti-corrosion additives. They do not contain any ZDDP, detergents, or dispersants, so using them in a car engine will dilute these vital additives. 10% is likely not an issue, especially if balanced with some HD diesel engine oil having higher concentrations of these additives, but I wouldn't expect much of a benefit at that level either.
Also keep in mind that the anti-wear additive used in all jet engine oils is TCP which contains phosphorus. The typical jet oil will have about 1800 to 2400 ppm of phosphorus, which is well above the 800 ppm max limit to protect catalytic convertors. Again probably not an issue at 10% dosage, but the risk/reward ratio is a bit more than I would venture.
Tom NJ
Also keep in mind that the anti-wear additive used in all jet engine oils is TCP which contains phosphorus. The typical jet oil will have about 1800 to 2400 ppm of phosphorus, which is well above the 800 ppm max limit to protect catalytic convertors. Again probably not an issue at 10% dosage, but the risk/reward ratio is a bit more than I would venture.
Tom NJ
Originally Posted By: tekmoe
"Can anyone shed any light on this?
Quote:
"Ester based products are chemically produced in a non-refining environment, thus depending on type can be cheaper to produce.
The cost to produce a polyol ester is far greater than producing a refined mineral oil, in fact greater than the retail price of a finished and packaged motor oil.
Quote:
"By that I mean in an automotive application if there was a problem with an engine (such as excess fuel or water ingress) the oil could not cope and would seperate causing damage to the inner components.
A polyol ester will not "separate" from excess fuel or water ingress. Fuel is fully miscible in POEs, and while water separates from polyol esters, the detergents and dispersants would hold any water in a suspension or emulsion.
Quote:
"Their inability to be mixed with a mineral product is a major handicap in the automotive world because if you needed to top up with oil you could not mix them.
Polyol esters are fully miscible with mineral oils. Based on his water and immiscibility comments I wonder if he is confusing POEs with PAGs.
Quote:
"Their viscosity range is also limited compared to an advanced PAO based product, meaning they do not have the ability to operate on a very wide range of temperatures reliably.
POEs are available from 2 cSt to 30+ cSt @ 100°C, and have a wider operating temperature range than comparable PAOs. PAOs have an advantage at the low temperature end, but POEs have a much greater advantage at the high temperature end. This is why all jet engine oils in the world, commercial and military, fly exclusively on fully POE based oils.
Quote:
"The confusion with all this is not what is classed as a "Fully Synthetic" oil but what is classed as a "Semi Synthetic" as only a small amount of additives can classify an oil as such."
The use of the terms "Fully Synthetic" and "Semi Synthetic" are based on the base oils used, not the additives.
For further information on esters, see: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/esters-in-synthetic-lubricants/
Tom NJ
"Can anyone shed any light on this?
Quote:
"Ester based products are chemically produced in a non-refining environment, thus depending on type can be cheaper to produce.
The cost to produce a polyol ester is far greater than producing a refined mineral oil, in fact greater than the retail price of a finished and packaged motor oil.
Quote:
"By that I mean in an automotive application if there was a problem with an engine (such as excess fuel or water ingress) the oil could not cope and would seperate causing damage to the inner components.
A polyol ester will not "separate" from excess fuel or water ingress. Fuel is fully miscible in POEs, and while water separates from polyol esters, the detergents and dispersants would hold any water in a suspension or emulsion.
Quote:
"Their inability to be mixed with a mineral product is a major handicap in the automotive world because if you needed to top up with oil you could not mix them.
Polyol esters are fully miscible with mineral oils. Based on his water and immiscibility comments I wonder if he is confusing POEs with PAGs.
Quote:
"Their viscosity range is also limited compared to an advanced PAO based product, meaning they do not have the ability to operate on a very wide range of temperatures reliably.
POEs are available from 2 cSt to 30+ cSt @ 100°C, and have a wider operating temperature range than comparable PAOs. PAOs have an advantage at the low temperature end, but POEs have a much greater advantage at the high temperature end. This is why all jet engine oils in the world, commercial and military, fly exclusively on fully POE based oils.
Quote:
"The confusion with all this is not what is classed as a "Fully Synthetic" oil but what is classed as a "Semi Synthetic" as only a small amount of additives can classify an oil as such."
The use of the terms "Fully Synthetic" and "Semi Synthetic" are based on the base oils used, not the additives.
For further information on esters, see: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/esters-in-synthetic-lubricants/
Tom NJ
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