2016 Toyota Tacoma Diesel

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Originally Posted By: CELICA_XX
Despite the fact that GM’s new midsize pickup trucks are about to get a diesel engine option, Toyota‘s all-new Tacoma will not.

Speaking during a live chat, Tacoma and Tundra chief engineer Mike Sweers was unequivocal. “We will not be offering a diesel engine,” he said. “We’ve looked at diesels, and diesel is a difficult topic right now because of the new Tier 3 emission regulations.”

Those Tier 3 regulations, set in place by the Environmental Protection Agency, are set to take effect in 2017, further reducing tailpipe emissions and, as a result, making diesel-powered light vehicles harder to pass, not to mention more expensive to build.

Sweers is aware of the obvious advantages of a diesel engine. “Diesel, from a fuel economy standpoint, is about a 30 percent improvement right out of the box,” he said.

However, that’s not enough to offset the negative aspects of diesel engines.

“The downside to diesel is the emissions has to be certified at the same level as a gas engine,” said Sweers. “So the way to do that is you have to put on an after-treatment system.” That system, he claims, would add as much as $3,000 to the cost of a vehicle.

“So if we consider that cost, versus the fuel economy improvement, and the fact that diesel is $1 more per gallon more than gasoline, is there a return on the investment?” asks Sweers rhetorically.

Even if the answer is yes, Sweers wouldn’t bet on diesel tech for the future, pointing to further emissions regulations taking effect in 2019 that could then shelve certain engines. “Can you make that diesel survive? Is it a two-year engine? Is it a four-year engine? That’s the question,” said Sweers. “It’s very difficult to show a return on that investment.”

Instead, Toyota will continue to focus on gasoline engine options for the Tacoma, with a 2.7-liter 4-cylinder as well as a new 3.5-liter V6.

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2015/...f-engineer.html


That engineer is spot on, diesel is done in light duty vehicles in the US.
 
Even if they sold a diesel engine in the US, i dont think it would be very well accepted by the general public. Toyota in house diesels are VERY, VERY noisy, clattery and vibrate like [censored]. Trust me, i've driven lots of them and currently own one. It's the most unrefined engine i've ever driven.

Leaving it on in your garage would slowly destroy your house and its foundations. /Sarcasm
 
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Originally Posted By: CELICA_XX
Despite the fact that GM’s new midsize pickup trucks are about to get a diesel engine option, Toyota‘s all-new Tacoma will not.

Speaking during a live chat, Tacoma and Tundra chief engineer Mike Sweers was unequivocal. “We will not be offering a diesel engine,” he said. “We’ve looked at diesels, and diesel is a difficult topic right now because of the new Tier 3 emission regulations.”

Those Tier 3 regulations, set in place by the Environmental Protection Agency, are set to take effect in 2017, further reducing tailpipe emissions and, as a result, making diesel-powered light vehicles harder to pass, not to mention more expensive to build.

Sweers is aware of the obvious advantages of a diesel engine. “Diesel, from a fuel economy standpoint, is about a 30 percent improvement right out of the box,” he said.

However, that’s not enough to offset the negative aspects of diesel engines.

“The downside to diesel is the emissions has to be certified at the same level as a gas engine,” said Sweers. “So the way to do that is you have to put on an after-treatment system.” That system, he claims, would add as much as $3,000 to the cost of a vehicle.

“So if we consider that cost, versus the fuel economy improvement, and the fact that diesel is $1 more per gallon more than gasoline, is there a return on the investment?” asks Sweers rhetorically.

Even if the answer is yes, Sweers wouldn’t bet on diesel tech for the future, pointing to further emissions regulations taking effect in 2019 that could then shelve certain engines. “Can you make that diesel survive? Is it a two-year engine? Is it a four-year engine? That’s the question,” said Sweers. “It’s very difficult to show a return on that investment.”

Instead, Toyota will continue to focus on gasoline engine options for the Tacoma, with a 2.7-liter 4-cylinder as well as a new 3.5-liter V6.

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2015/...f-engineer.html


That engineer is spot on, diesel is done in light duty vehicles in the US.


Sure it is, just ask Ram who filled 8000
Orders in 3 days for the Ecodiesel. The OEMs have really gotten a grasp on diesel emissions in the last 2 years. Internally they are running cleaner than ever (no plugged up intakes and VGTs) and the fuel mileage just keeps getting better and better.
Gas engines are as complex and costly as ever, and they're only getting worse. Variable valve timing, direct injection, compound turbochargers, cylinder deactivation, theyre just not as simple as they used to be, and a diesel still gets substantially better mileage regardless of the technology and complexity of gas. As the 2025 Cafe standards near we will continue to see more and more diesels. GM is next, not only with the Colorado/Canyon but the Silvarado 1/2 ton as well.


BTW,tier III emissions is ancient news. tier IV was phased in beginning in 2008 and finalized in 2015. The new emissions Sweers was referring to in 2017 are the GHG regulations and while it will take some new technology to pass the standards, the major players aren't going anywhere. Cummins has been successfully running test engines below the GHG standards for over a year now.
Mr Sweers is just a little behind the times and rather uninformed.
 
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Originally Posted By: Noobie
Even if they sold a diesel engine in the US, i dont think it would be very well accepted by the general public. Toyota in house diesels are VERY, VERY noisy, clattery and vibrate like [censored]. Trust me, i've driven lots of them and currently own one. It's the most unrefined engine i've ever driven.


You need to get rid of that Prado and get a 200 Series 'Cruiser - that twin turbo V8 diesel is one smooth, awesome engine!
 
I'd rather have an (sure to be) affordable, full size, gasoline hybrid truck with V8, automatic transmission, triple electric motor-generators and an enormous nickel metal hydride battery pack filling the bed. Sounds like a much more environmentally friendly way to achieve good MPG, all while creating less capacity, less capability, more complexity and more weight.

Because EPA.
 
Originally Posted By: jrmason
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Originally Posted By: CELICA_XX
Despite the fact that GM’s new midsize pickup trucks are about to get a diesel engine option, Toyota‘s all-new Tacoma will not.

Speaking during a live chat, Tacoma and Tundra chief engineer Mike Sweers was unequivocal. “We will not be offering a diesel engine,” he said. “We’ve looked at diesels, and diesel is a difficult topic right now because of the new Tier 3 emission regulations.”

Those Tier 3 regulations, set in place by the Environmental Protection Agency, are set to take effect in 2017, further reducing tailpipe emissions and, as a result, making diesel-powered light vehicles harder to pass, not to mention more expensive to build.

Sweers is aware of the obvious advantages of a diesel engine. “Diesel, from a fuel economy standpoint, is about a 30 percent improvement right out of the box,” he said.

However, that’s not enough to offset the negative aspects of diesel engines.

“The downside to diesel is the emissions has to be certified at the same level as a gas engine,” said Sweers. “So the way to do that is you have to put on an after-treatment system.” That system, he claims, would add as much as $3,000 to the cost of a vehicle.

“So if we consider that cost, versus the fuel economy improvement, and the fact that diesel is $1 more per gallon more than gasoline, is there a return on the investment?” asks Sweers rhetorically.

Even if the answer is yes, Sweers wouldn’t bet on diesel tech for the future, pointing to further emissions regulations taking effect in 2019 that could then shelve certain engines. “Can you make that diesel survive? Is it a two-year engine? Is it a four-year engine? That’s the question,” said Sweers. “It’s very difficult to show a return on that investment.”

Instead, Toyota will continue to focus on gasoline engine options for the Tacoma, with a 2.7-liter 4-cylinder as well as a new 3.5-liter V6.

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2015/...f-engineer.html


That engineer is spot on, diesel is done in light duty vehicles in the US.


Sure it is, just ask Ram who filled 8000
Orders in 3 days for the Ecodiesel. The OEMs have really gotten a grasp on diesel emissions in the last 2 years. Internally they are running cleaner than ever (no plugged up intakes and VGTs) and the fuel mileage just keeps getting better and better.
Gas engines are as complex and costly as ever, and they're only getting worse. Variable valve timing, direct injection, compound turbochargers, cylinder deactivation, theyre just not as simple as they used to be, and a diesel still gets substantially better mileage regardless of the technology and complexity of gas. As the 2025 Cafe standards near we will continue to see more and more diesels. GM is next, not only with the Colorado/Canyon but the Silvarado 1/2 ton as well.


BTW,tier III emissions is ancient news. tier IV was phased in beginning in 2008 and finalized in 2015. The new emissions Sweers was referring to in 2017 are the GHG regulations and while it will take some new technology to pass the standards, the major players aren't going anywhere. Cummins has been successfully running test engines below the GHG standards for over a year now.
Mr Sweers is just a little behind the times and rather uninformed.


Yeah 8k out of how many trucks?

They are having a number of problems with that engine as well.

When I ordered my truck I told the dealer no thanks I rather keep the $4k in my pocket.
 
While petrol remains ridiculously cheap in the US, a diesel "ute" makes no sense, but here, diesel and petrol are basically the same price, making the diesel engine an attractive proposition. But apart from the reduced running costs, a modern turbo diesel is a really nice engine - torquey, and well suited to towing. Modern 6 speed automatics make the most of them too, keeping them in that sweet spot between 1500 and 2500 rpm.
 
Please describe "a number of problems" this engine has been having. Just because you chose not to order one means...absolutely nothing.
Diesel is less than .30 a gallon more here than gasoline. Its cheaper than premium that some engines require. Even if you use your truck as a grocery getter the extra 8-10 mpg the VM gets over a Hemi is an advantage. Use your truck like a truck is supposed to be used and the advantage grows even more. Upfront cost is a wash to me when you always get it on the back end of ownership.
 
The diesel makes a poor towing platform because your limited to a low payload and as a result tongue weight.

Diesel is $1 over RUG in my area, dealers also got a lot more for oil changes and services on the diesel.

http://www.ramforumz.com/showthread.php?t=198605

http://www.ramforumz.com/showthread.php?t=198877

The only threads you see on the Ram forums about any sort of engine issue whatsoever are related to the VM diesel and the emissions [censored] on the Cummins.

Unlike you I actually bought a new truck so my opinion on the engine options does matter, I'm a customer, in a few years I'll probably buy another one. So when are you ordering a 2016 Ecodiesel 1500 Ram?
 
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Half tons aren't enough truck for me. Ive got a 13 3500 SRW HO.

Diesel probably doesn't make sense for a guy that uses it as a grocery getter and trades it in every few years. For those that USE a truck as it is intended for and keeps his truck long term there's no question diesel is superior. Pound for pound that little 3.0 VM will out tow a Hemi twice its size in displacement, regardless of tow ratings, which are overly conservative.

After rereading your post, what makes you think your so special that your opinion matters more than the next? Because you bought a new truck? Congratulations, join the club of a few hundred thousand strong.
I think your sitting a little too high on your horse.
 
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You linked threads in which the same guys having issues. He either got water in his fuel or he pumped DEF into the WRONG NOZZLE. Notice how there was never any closure in either thread? Perhaps he realized the critical mistake he made and was too embarrassed to admit it on a public forum?
Please explain how either of those threads have anything to do with anything other than owner neglect. I'd love to hear your diesel expertise.
I will even give you a clue: the second thread is very much related to the mistake he made in the first thread.
Between your fuzzy math on oil changes and the above links its quite obvious your trying hard to make a case where it doesn't exist. Try again.
 
Originally Posted By: hpb
You need to get rid of that Prado and get a 200 Series 'Cruiser - that twin turbo V8 diesel is one smooth, awesome engine!

Wish i could but its way out of my budget.
A 4Runner would also be a good choice, same frame, same suspension setup but with a better drivetrain. (Uber smooth V6 and much more powerful)
Costs almost the same but the interior is slightly worst.
I wonder why they dont bring the V6 Prado and choose to sell the diesel as their top of the line engine in most markets, it doesnt makes sense when its so unrefined and underpowered. (Also requires a LOT more maintenance, according to the maintenance schedule in the user manual)

I really do think the 4Runner would have been a better choice. I've driven both and my Prado has a slight rattle coming from the drivers side. (Not sure where)
I have a friend that owns a really abused 5th Gen 4Runner that is driven on extremely [censored] roads frequently and has over 130K kilometers, feels like a tank and theres not a single rattle or squeak unlike my brand new Prado with a couple thousand K's.
 
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Sounds like the Prado will not be in your fleet for much longer...

I'm not sure where you're from, but in Australia, Prado is available with either 4 litre petrol V6, or 3 litre turbo diesel. I don't know exact numbers, but I'd estimate 75% of them would be optioned with the diesel.
 
Originally Posted By: Noobie
Originally Posted By: hpb
You need to get rid of that Prado and get a 200 Series 'Cruiser - that twin turbo V8 diesel is one smooth, awesome engine!

Wish i could but its way out of my budget.
A 4Runner would also be a good choice, same frame, same suspension setup but with a better drivetrain. (Uber smooth V6 and much more powerful)
Costs almost the same but the interior is slightly worst.
I wonder why they dont bring the V6 Prado and choose to sell the diesel as their top of the line engine in most markets, it doesnt makes sense when its so unrefined and underpowered. (Also requires a LOT more maintenance, according to the maintenance schedule in the user manual)

I really do think the 4Runner would have been a better choice. I've driven both and my Prado has a slight rattle coming from the drivers side. (Not sure where)
I have a friend that owns a really abused 5th Gen 4Runner that is driven on extremely [censored] roads frequently and has over 130K kilometers, feels like a tank and theres not a single rattle or squeak unlike my brand new Prado with a couple thousand K's.


Interesting that your Prado has more rattles and squeaks than a 4Runner. In the US, the Prado is a premium vehicle over the 4Runner, sold as the Lexus GX. Our model gets a gas V8.
 
Originally Posted By: hpb
Sounds like the Prado will not be in your fleet for much longer...

I'm not sure where you're from, but in Australia, Prado is available with either 4 litre petrol V6, or 3 litre turbo diesel. I don't know exact numbers, but I'd estimate 75% of them would be optioned with the diesel.

Here they only sell the Prado with a puny 4-cyl 2.7L 2TR-FE gas engine or the 4-cyl 3.0L 1KD-FTV D-4D. At the end of the day, i think i'll just get used to its downsides and keep it. Not really considering changing it anytime soon that would not be a wise decision financially. Hahahaha

Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
Interesting that your Prado has more rattles and squeaks than a 4Runner. In the US, the Prado is a premium vehicle over the 4Runner, sold as the Lexus GX. Our model gets a gas V8.

They also sell the Lexus GX here, its quite a bit more expensive. The facelifted Lexus GX looks pretty good IMO.
 
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