M855 thoughts

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Who shoots green tips or SS109 often? You think it is worth a little extra $$? Seeing as though ZQI SS109 is $10/30, M855 green tip is $85/150, and both are practically the same round, I am intrigued by the large difference in price. Is M855 superior to M193, etc?
 
They are not the same round.

For plinking and blasting shoot whichever is cheaper. The M855 is meant for the 1:7 twist barrels. M193 for 1:9-1:14

neither are match grade
 
Originally Posted By: LotI
They are not the same round.

For plinking and blasting shoot whichever is cheaper. The M855 is meant for the 1:7 twist barrels. M193 for 1:9-1:14

neither are match grade


+1. M855 and SS109 have a tungsten steel penetrator, with a lead core behind it, which makes it mildly more penetrative through barriers. While not identical, M855 and SS109 are very similar and for all intents and purposes, the same. But M193 is a lighter, with a lead core, and appears to be more damaging to flesh than M855. I wouldn't bother worrying about it...get whichever is less expensive. Avoid PMC (unless buying their newer Xtac) as they are underloaded, and lower velocity that real M193 (or M855) spec...by about 200fps. This lower velocity can be a problem when shooting at distances beyond 200 meters.

I only train and practice with M193.
 
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Originally Posted By: f355spider
+1. M855 and SS109 have a tungsten steel penetrator, with a lead core behind it, which makes it mildly more penetrative through barriers. While not identical, M855 and SS109 are very similar and for all intents and purposes, the same. But M193 is a lighter, with a lead core, and appears to be more damaging to flesh than M855. I wouldn't bother worrying about it...get whichever is less expensive. Avoid PMC (unless buying their newer Xtac) as they are underloaded, and lower velocity that real M193 (or M855) spec...by about 200fps. This lower velocity can be a problem when shooting at distances beyond 200 meters.

I only train and practice with M193.


Everything he said is spot on. M855, SS109, and M193 are all what could be considered plinking rounds. If you are using any of these for defensive use, there are much better options now a days. And if you are paying 65 cents a round for green tip, you are definately doing it wrong. It's plinking ammo, and as such you should be paying under $350ish/1000.

Excellent brass case M193 spec ammo (sold under Wolf Gold, likely made by PMC) $299/case
http://www.sgammo.com/product/223-556mm/...old-ar-15-ammun

M855 for $379/case
http://www.sgammo.com/product/223-556mm/...j-556k-lap-ammo
 
I'm always amazed at how little power the M855 actually has. Shooting concrete blocks, it never goes through. Same with tree stumps.

A typical 308 will blast right through such things.
 
Originally Posted By: Cujet
I'm always amazed at how little power the M855 actually has. Shooting concrete blocks, it never goes through. Same with tree stumps.

A typical 308 will blast right through such things.
Well yeah !!! Costs more too. I sold off all my 308 rifles in the middle 1990s because 223 was so much less in price and paper doesn't matter.
 
Hmm, youtube has a video where a guy shoots 300 yards into cinderblocks and the M855 penetrates both sides cleanly. He used an AR too so it does prove the M855 has plenty of penetration capabilities.
 
Originally Posted By: lawman1909
Hmm, youtube has a video where a guy shoots 300 yards into cinderblocks and the M855 penetrates both sides cleanly. He used an AR too so it does prove the M855 has plenty of penetration capabilities.


If your intent in shooting is to stop cinder blocks with a 5.56mm, well, OK, then M855 is worth the extra cost...

But if you're looking to put holes in paper, then M855 doesn't really matter.

If you're looking to stop people in your house, then there are better choices. One of the issues with M855 in actual combat is that it simply goes right through targets (bad guys) without doing much damage because it doesn't fragment or spread...

If you think you might have to stop people who are hiding behind barriers with your 5.56...then, M855 would be worth the extra cost...

But while I've got a few thousand round of M855, I stock up on, and plink with, M193. It's cheaper. And the range to which I belong doesn't allow the M855...the ammo is constrained just a bit...

Great place, by the way...

http://www.colonialshooting.com/vab/
 
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Originally Posted By: Cujet
I'm always amazed at how little power the M855 actually has. Shooting concrete blocks, it never goes through. Same with tree stumps.

A typical 308 will blast right through such things.


It's not because of the M-855 ammunition. People forget it's a .223. It will always be a .223 regardless of how cool and bad a$$ of a rifle they wrap around it. The little .223 cartridge is ILLEGAL to shoot deer with in many states. This is because it does not have adequate energy to kill such large game reliably and consistently. Now some will of course argue this, but the facts don't lie. It is mainly a varmint, and or MEDIUM range target cartridge, and is used as such. Works great on Prairie Dogs.
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
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It's not because of the M-855 ammunition. People forget it's a .223. It will always be a .223 regardless of how cool and bad a$$ of a rifle they wrap around it. The little .223 cartridge is ILLEGAL to shoot deer with in many states. This is because it does not have adequate energy to kill such large game reliably and consistently. Now some will of course argue this, but the facts don't lie. It is mainly a varmint, and or MEDIUM range target cartridge, and is used as such. Works great on Prairie Dogs.
With quality bullets and common hunting distances a .223 will anchor deer as well as anything else. Thems the facts. Of course the .223 performs poorly on big game with varmint or [censored] .mil bullets.
 
Originally Posted By: hatt
Of course the .223 performs poorly on big game with varmint or [censored] .mil bullets.


The .223 performs poorly on big game PERIOD. It is NOT a big game cartridge. It is a .22 caliber varmint cartridge. Always was, is now, and always will be. I don't care what kind of bullets you shoot in it, or what "operator" recommends it.
 
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Originally Posted By: lawman1909
Hmm, youtube has a video where a guy shoots 300 yards into cinderblocks and the M855 penetrates both sides cleanly. He used an AR too so it does prove the M855 has plenty of penetration capabilities.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBDYXW2gUlo

This video? It certainly penetrates the first side, and impacts the second side. But it does not come out the second side. That matches my experience with M855. As mentioned above, it's 223 ammo. It does not carry enough energy to do much penetration.

Here is a 50 Beowulf:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0z3ltsxpDTY

and 308:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AXE_nBs2gw
 
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The ss109 is just the NATO designation. M855 is the U.S. Military designation for the 62gr enhanced penetration round.

If you have an old 1 in 12 A1 barrel like I do, I have to shoot the older M193 55gr ammo.
 
The reason M855 costs more now is due to the recent leak that ATF wanted to ban them. Before the rumor mill, price differential was there, but minimal.

As to the other point of contention, one of the most prolific white tail hunters I ever encountered used a Remington 600 chambered in 222. She never took a bad shot, I never saw an attempt over 100 yards. She and her husband hunted for meat, and they had plenty. If you use the right bullet, and respect the limitations, a 222 or a 223 is a more than adequate cartridge.
 
Originally Posted By: billt460


The .223 performs poorly on big game PERIOD. It is NOT a big game cartridge. It is a .22 caliber varmint cartridge. Always was, is now, and always will be. I don't care what kind of bullets you shoot in it, or what "operator" recommends it.
I was in the same camp not that long ago. Times change. .223 is plenty good for a skilled and sensible hunter. It doesn't have tons of headroom for just anyone however. Those folks should just stick with .300 WinMag to shoot 100 lb deer at 40 yards.
 
Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: billt460


The .223 performs poorly on big game PERIOD. It is NOT a big game cartridge. It is a .22 caliber varmint cartridge. Always was, is now, and always will be. I don't care what kind of bullets you shoot in it, or what "operator" recommends it.
I was in the same camp not that long ago. Times change. .223 is plenty good for a skilled and sensible hunter. It doesn't have tons of headroom for just anyone however. Those folks should just stick with .300 WinMag to shoot 100 lb deer at 40 yards.


Not to mention laws in many states don't allow it, especially were the deer tend to be a big better fed and bigger. In that case a 243 winchester tends to be the small caliber high velocity cartridge of choice.
 
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