The ailerons make the aircraft roll about its longitudinal axis. The elevators make the aircraft pitch up or down. The rudder makes the aircraft turn about its vertical axis. When you're making a turn, how do you know how much rudder to use in relation to the ailerons?
Rudder to Aileron Ratio
- Thread starter Merkava_4
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The principle is this: When any aileron that goes down, creates a drag that brakes the airplane from its wing, making its wing initially to go back. And since that that movement is contrary to the place you're trying to point the airplane you should compensate with a little left rudder. In other word, when you make a left turn, the right aileron makes a drag. That very drag makes the nose of the airplane to go to the right! This tendency is just in initial act and just a little tendency in very good projects.
So you use rudder every time you:
Turn the airplane to compensate aileron drag in the air and to maneuver at terrafirm, and also when you're doing two other maneuvers in the air called slip and crab to land with a crosswind.
The ratio is dependant on the bank, g force, speed. You have to negotiate there ...
So you use rudder every time you:
Turn the airplane to compensate aileron drag in the air and to maneuver at terrafirm, and also when you're doing two other maneuvers in the air called slip and crab to land with a crosswind.
The ratio is dependant on the bank, g force, speed. You have to negotiate there ...
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Originally Posted By: clarkflower
Keep the ball in the middle
http://www.flightlearnings.com/2013/03/0...eedle-and-ball/
Good explaination...
It's like riding a bike, you just learn how to make well coordinated turns - then you relearn when you make inverted turns...
Keep the ball in the middle
http://www.flightlearnings.com/2013/03/0...eedle-and-ball/
Good explaination...
It's like riding a bike, you just learn how to make well coordinated turns - then you relearn when you make inverted turns...
It's often more comlex than simply "aileron goes down and creates more drag, so you get adverse yaw". Adverse yaw is the actual term for why you need rudder to "coordinate" a turn. At normal speeds, in a slow airplane with a thick wing, you'll need a fair amount of rudder. If we're talking Cessnas and other piston singles, that is...
But more complex airplanes have varying relationships between rudder and aileron. The effects of adverse yaw vary with wing thickness, sweep, speed, and angle of attack. In big jet airplanes with Yaw dampers, no rudder is needed. In fast jet airplanes that use stabilators, there is no adverse yaw, until you get to very high angles of attack, and even then, you can get to a place in the flight envelope where the Yaw is proverse...
I would recommend "Stick and Rudder" by William Langewische. A truly great book, written over 80 years ago, that presents the basics of flying in clear, concise, terms. You can get the Kindle version for relatively little.
Additionally, for more complex aerodynamics, I would recommend "Aerodynamics for Naval Aviators". Written in the 60s, it remains a great technical primer. You can get it on Amazon, or simply download it for free from the FAA:
http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/media/00-80t-80.pdf
But more complex airplanes have varying relationships between rudder and aileron. The effects of adverse yaw vary with wing thickness, sweep, speed, and angle of attack. In big jet airplanes with Yaw dampers, no rudder is needed. In fast jet airplanes that use stabilators, there is no adverse yaw, until you get to very high angles of attack, and even then, you can get to a place in the flight envelope where the Yaw is proverse...
I would recommend "Stick and Rudder" by William Langewische. A truly great book, written over 80 years ago, that presents the basics of flying in clear, concise, terms. You can get the Kindle version for relatively little.
Additionally, for more complex aerodynamics, I would recommend "Aerodynamics for Naval Aviators". Written in the 60s, it remains a great technical primer. You can get it on Amazon, or simply download it for free from the FAA:
http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/media/00-80t-80.pdf
Practice?
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Practice?
Yup. Student pilot drill is to do "Dutch rolls", which are quick rolls back and forth, imitating the beginnings of turns in both directions, while keeping the ball centered.
You have the equivalent to the ball, in your stomach, and if you do this wrong, you tend to make your passngers sick.
Practice?
Yup. Student pilot drill is to do "Dutch rolls", which are quick rolls back and forth, imitating the beginnings of turns in both directions, while keeping the ball centered.
You have the equivalent to the ball, in your stomach, and if you do this wrong, you tend to make your passngers sick.
Originally Posted By: clarkflower
Keep the ball in the middle
http://www.flightlearnings.com/2013/03/0...eedle-and-ball/
Yes, but, there are perfectly fine maneuvers that the ball isn't centered at all. Like entering "the Crab" to align with landing centerline and "the Slip" made to loose height quickly.
Keep the ball in the middle
http://www.flightlearnings.com/2013/03/0...eedle-and-ball/
Yes, but, there are perfectly fine maneuvers that the ball isn't centered at all. Like entering "the Crab" to align with landing centerline and "the Slip" made to loose height quickly.
Originally Posted By: Pontual
Originally Posted By: clarkflower
Keep the ball in the middle
http://www.flightlearnings.com/2013/03/0...eedle-and-ball/
Yes, but, there are perfectly fine maneuvers that the ball isn't centered at all. Like entering "the Crab" to align with landing centerline and "the Slip" made to loose height quickly.
That is true but I learned fast (in a C-118/ DC6) after doing it you don't "slip" a big airplane. I was torn a new B hole...lol
Originally Posted By: clarkflower
Keep the ball in the middle
http://www.flightlearnings.com/2013/03/0...eedle-and-ball/
Yes, but, there are perfectly fine maneuvers that the ball isn't centered at all. Like entering "the Crab" to align with landing centerline and "the Slip" made to loose height quickly.
That is true but I learned fast (in a C-118/ DC6) after doing it you don't "slip" a big airplane. I was torn a new B hole...lol
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Originally Posted By: clarkflower
Originally Posted By: Pontual
Originally Posted By: clarkflower
Keep the ball in the middle
http://www.flightlearnings.com/2013/03/0...eedle-and-ball/
Yes, but, there are perfectly fine maneuvers that the ball isn't centered at all. Like entering "the Crab" to align with landing centerline and "the Slip" made to loose height quickly.
That is true but I learned fast (in a C-118/ DC6) after doing it you don't "slip" a big airplane. I was torn a new B hole...lol
Which relates to my earlier point about people having their own individual coordination instrument installed in their gut......Slipping a large passenger aircraft makes the people aboard queezy, and can increase the work load of the cleanup crew.
Originally Posted By: Pontual
Originally Posted By: clarkflower
Keep the ball in the middle
http://www.flightlearnings.com/2013/03/0...eedle-and-ball/
Yes, but, there are perfectly fine maneuvers that the ball isn't centered at all. Like entering "the Crab" to align with landing centerline and "the Slip" made to loose height quickly.
That is true but I learned fast (in a C-118/ DC6) after doing it you don't "slip" a big airplane. I was torn a new B hole...lol
Which relates to my earlier point about people having their own individual coordination instrument installed in their gut......Slipping a large passenger aircraft makes the people aboard queezy, and can increase the work load of the cleanup crew.
I fly a glider out of an airport that almost always has a lot of crosswind. When landing you have to turn just over the tops of some tall eucalyptus trees into dead air and then back into the crosswind to touch down. The most elegant way to do this is to flat turn or skid by crossing up the controls keeping the crosswind from taking you off your line and then get onto the runway. You just have to be careful that you continue to hear the sound of air rushing by. If it suddenly becomes silent then you're not flying, anymore. It's really a lot of fun to try to make the perfect landing. A coordinated turn would either put you in the trees to the left on the inside of the landing pattern or in the cow pasture on the right on the other side of the highway.
The earliest aviators at first always turned flat because they were in the words of Louis Bleriot the fist person to fly a heavier than air craft across the English Channel, afraid of tipping over.
The earliest aviators at first always turned flat because they were in the words of Louis Bleriot the fist person to fly a heavier than air craft across the English Channel, afraid of tipping over.
We slip large airplanes all the time. Every time we do a crosswind landing.
Landing a Boeing, or Airbus, in a crab makes for a rough touchdown. So, you always "de crab" by aligning the fuselage with rudder and controlling downwind drift with wing down (aileron).
In other words, a slip.
But it's usually done, quickly, artfully, in the flare. Not held for minutes on final like little airplanes are flown...
Landing a Boeing, or Airbus, in a crab makes for a rough touchdown. So, you always "de crab" by aligning the fuselage with rudder and controlling downwind drift with wing down (aileron).
In other words, a slip.
But it's usually done, quickly, artfully, in the flare. Not held for minutes on final like little airplanes are flown...
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Originally Posted By: Astro14
We slip large airplanes all the time. Every time we do a crosswind landing.
But it's usually done, quickly, artfully, in the flare. Not held for minutes on final like little airplanes are flown...
I slipped my 177RG down from 9500 feet today (to sea level) . Good thing I did not have any pax.
I'm working on my glider rating today (did 9 flights today) . Rolling a glider rapidly into a 45 degree bank with full span ailerons requires quite a bit of rudder (about 3/4) . It's a heck of a lot of fun. And, the glider has differential ailerons to help reduce the adverse yaw.
We slip large airplanes all the time. Every time we do a crosswind landing.
But it's usually done, quickly, artfully, in the flare. Not held for minutes on final like little airplanes are flown...
I slipped my 177RG down from 9500 feet today (to sea level) . Good thing I did not have any pax.
I'm working on my glider rating today (did 9 flights today) . Rolling a glider rapidly into a 45 degree bank with full span ailerons requires quite a bit of rudder (about 3/4) . It's a heck of a lot of fun. And, the glider has differential ailerons to help reduce the adverse yaw.
Pontual wrote:
Yes, but, there are perfectly fine maneuvers that the ball isn't centered at all. Like entering "the Crab" to align with landing centerline and "the Slip" made to loose height quickly.
A "crab" is simply flying a heading a given number of degrees into the wind in order to compensate for said wind, allowing you to fly a track along the ground, such as a runway centerline. It is done with the ball centered.
Yes, but, there are perfectly fine maneuvers that the ball isn't centered at all. Like entering "the Crab" to align with landing centerline and "the Slip" made to loose height quickly.
A "crab" is simply flying a heading a given number of degrees into the wind in order to compensate for said wind, allowing you to fly a track along the ground, such as a runway centerline. It is done with the ball centered.
Originally Posted By: Astro14
We slip large airplanes all the time. Every time we do a crosswind landing.
But it's usually done, quickly, artfully, in the flare.
Yep. You can see about 50 feet AGL he tries to kick her back. Man, I'd love to land at BHX a few times.
We slip large airplanes all the time. Every time we do a crosswind landing.
But it's usually done, quickly, artfully, in the flare.
Yep. You can see about 50 feet AGL he tries to kick her back. Man, I'd love to land at BHX a few times.
Wow, nice stick and rudder skills.
Nice to discover an aviation area at BITOG. I had managed to overlook it till now. Slip vs. Crab. Like many I was uncomfortable with the slip in landing. I admit I stayed that way so wuss I am I guess. I just never had much trouble with the crab. Carry a little extra airspeed, kick it out in ground effect while bringing in a touch of aileron against the wind, hold the ailerons through rollout. I have always thought the key to it was the extra 5-7 knots. I remember it as being a bone of contention with various instructors/check pilots.
When... when the helo begins to rotate around the rotor mast rather than pointing in the direction you want to fly.
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