Wonderful Toyota battery

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If you're looking for a battery that won't corrode your terminals and live a long life, then I recommend batteries made by East Penn/Deka.

Speaking from several years or shop experience, I can say that at least 70% or more Johnson Controls batteries have acid on their tops and corroded terminals. This includes all the parts house branded ones, OE labeled ones, the batteries from Wal-Mart and Interstate. While I'm sure they're a fine starting battery otherwise, I've seen too many acid covered JCI batteries to recommend them.

On the other hand, a very low percentage of East Penn made batteries will corrode the terminals. I run them in all my personal vehicles and sell them as well. The only East Penn battery that I have ever seen eating up a terminal was my own- and that is because I damaged the post on installation.

They are of course, not immune to premature death from being run too low and not recharged, as we all know that car/truck alternators are not battery chargers... I've found that if you keep them charged, they'll keep starting your car and keep you happy.
 
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
If you're looking for a battery that won't corrode your terminals and live a long life, then I recommend batteries made by East Penn/Deka.

Speaking from several years or shop experience, I can say that at least 70% or more Johnson Controls batteries have acid on their tops and corroded terminals. This includes all the parts house branded ones, OE labeled ones, the batteries from Wal-Mart and Interstate. While I'm sure they're a fine starting battery otherwise, I've seen too many acid covered JCI batteries to recommend them.

On the other hand, a very low percentage of East Penn made batteries will corrode the terminals. I run them in all my personal vehicles and sell them as well. The only East Penn battery that I have ever seen eating up a terminal was my own- and that is because I damaged the post on installation.

They are of course, not immune to premature death from being run too low and not recharged, as we all know that car/truck alternators are not battery chargers... I've found that if you keep them charged, they'll keep starting your car and keep you happy.


Well, I would like to buy the Optima Yellow Top battery, which sounds like it might be similar to your East Penn/Deka battery, but the Optima Yellow Top isn't really an automotive battery, but instead a deep-cycle battery, although that hasn't stopped folks from installing the Yellow Top in their cars. Amazon will be happy to sell you one for about $170. I'd be worried I wouldn't treat this non-automotive battery right (for example, I think it has to be deep-cycled regularly, unlike automotive batteries which I think you never want to deep-cycle). How do you properly care for a deep-cycle battery installed in your car?

Now the Optima Red Top is an automotive battery, not a deep-cycle battery, but I've seen just average reviews for the Red Top.
 
I use Alliance (Freightliner house brand) Size 31 batteries. These East Penn sourced batteries generate some battery terminal corrosion. I have to disconnect the battery terminals once a year and clean up the corrosion.
 
Originally Posted By: George7941
I have to disconnect the battery terminals once a year and clean up the corrosion.


Sounds like maintenance
 
The X2Power AGM at Batteries Plus has brass terminals and a 5 year full warranty. Costs some money, but I'm impressed so far.
 
I keep seeing people still repeating that Walmart and Autozone battery as 3 year free replacement + 2 year prorated. According to the websites of both they only list the 3 year free replacement warranty.

I thought that the prorated warranty is now dead?

Costco gives 3.5 year warranty free replacement so a little better deal than Walmart or Autozone for JCI battery.
 
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Originally Posted By: Built_Well
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
If you're looking for a battery that won't corrode your terminals and live a long life, then I recommend batteries made by East Penn/Deka.

Speaking from several years or shop experience, I can say that at least 70% or more Johnson Controls batteries have acid on their tops and corroded terminals. This includes all the parts house branded ones, OE labeled ones, the batteries from Wal-Mart and Interstate. While I'm sure they're a fine starting battery otherwise, I've seen too many acid covered JCI batteries to recommend them.

On the other hand, a very low percentage of East Penn made batteries will corrode the terminals. I run them in all my personal vehicles and sell them as well. The only East Penn battery that I have ever seen eating up a terminal was my own- and that is because I damaged the post on installation.

They are of course, not immune to premature death from being run too low and not recharged, as we all know that car/truck alternators are not battery chargers... I've found that if you keep them charged, they'll keep starting your car and keep you happy.


Well, I would like to buy the Optima Yellow Top battery, which sounds like it might be similar to your East Penn/Deka battery, but the Optima Yellow Top isn't really an automotive battery, but instead a deep-cycle battery, although that hasn't stopped folks from installing the Yellow Top in their cars. Amazon will be happy to sell you one for about $170. I'd be worried I wouldn't treat this non-automotive battery right (for example, I think it has to be deep-cycled regularly, unlike automotive batteries which I think you never want to deep-cycle). How do you properly care for a deep-cycle battery installed in your car?

Now the Optima Red Top is an automotive battery, not a deep-cycle battery, but I've seen just average reviews for the Red Top.


The type of battery I'm referring to is just a standard flooded, wet cell battery. The difference is their vent valving. Not sure what they do different than JCI/Exide, but it works. Now of course, East Penn does make an AGM battery, but that's a different topic.

The Optimas that you mentioned are JCI products now and a quick search here or on the web will reveal that they just aren't what they used to be.





Originally Posted By: George7941
I use Alliance (Freightliner house brand) Size 31 batteries. These East Penn sourced batteries generate some battery terminal corrosion. I have to disconnect the battery terminals once a year and clean up the corrosion.


That could be from a different vent design or over tightening the terminals. I know their auto/light truck batteries are a fine product that almost never leaks.
 
Originally Posted By: spackard
The X2Power AGM at Batteries Plus has brass terminals and a 5 year full warranty. Costs some money, but I'm impressed so far.

In what kind of car do you use the X2power AGM battery? And do you have to treat it differently than a regular car battery? I mean do you have to charge it regularly by connecting it to an external charger or something?

Also to prolong its life, do you need to run down the battery to a low level on a regular basis too--say down to 20 percent regularly.
 
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Originally Posted By: Nate1979
I keep seeing people still repeating that Walmart and Autozone battery as 3 year free replacement + 2 year prorated. According to the websites of both they only list the 3 year free replacement warranty.

I thought that the prorated warranty is now dead?

Costco gives 3.5 year warranty free replacement so a little better deal than Walmart or Autozone for JCI battery.

Some batteries at AutoZone and Walmart have a better warranty than other batteries. It just depends on the batteries' model numbers.
 
Originally Posted By: ThirdeYe
Originally Posted By: Silverado12
Does anyone know if the Advance Auto batteries are American made?


The one we just put in my girlfriend's Civic was. They're made by Johnson Controls, just like the Duralast batteries.

This page ( http://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/battery-information.610857/ ) says that Johnson Controls has moved most of its production to Mexico. I don't mind buying Mexican goods, but for those who strictly prefer buying U.S.-made products, like Silverado12 appears to like, it's a consideration, I guess.
 
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Oh, I just saw this, on the same web page. The author writes:

"Note that the majority, if not all of Johnson Controls lead acid batteries (which include Interstate, Die Hard, Duralast, etc.) are now made in Mexico."

He goes on to write:

"While I personally don't have an issue with foreign products, I do have concerns that there have been articles concerning lead pollution (and the resulting harm to workers and their families) from improper recycling near these plants."

Valid point. I'm going to feel guilty now about possibly buying a Walmart EverStart MAXX-24F if my 9.5-year-old Panasonic battery leaks and corrodes again, even though I just applied vaseline to it yesterday. So far so good.

Save the planet and the Earth's people: buy North Star, I guess. It's a Swedish company. The Swedes probably have better environmental regulations for their factories, right?
 
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On second thought, I may get the Group Size 24F Duracell battery at Sam's Club. This lead acid Duracell battery is made in the U.S.A. by Deka according to my earlier link.

Incidentally, even though the Swedish company North Star makes the x2Power AGM battery (available at Batteries Plus), the x2Power is made in the U.S.A., kind of like U.S.-owned Johnson Controls makes most of its batteries in Mexico:

http://www.batteriesplus.com/t-x2power.aspx
 
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Originally Posted By: Built_Well
Originally Posted By: spackard
The X2Power AGM at Batteries Plus has brass terminals and a 5 year full warranty. Costs some money, but I'm impressed so far.

In what kind of car do you use the X2power AGM battery? And do you have to treat it differently than a regular car battery? I mean do you have to charge it regularly by connecting it to an external charger or something?

Also to prolong its life, do you need to run down the battery to a low level on a regular basis too--say down to 20 percent regularly.


I bought it for my '92 Acura Vigor, to replace a 4 year old Costco battery. It sounds like it cranks much faster. The X2power is noticeably heavier than the Costco, though both are the same Group size. It sits in a pretty hot area of the engine compartment.

Only thing I did was charge it overnight before first use, though it took very little charge before indicating full.

I plan on treating it just like any other SLI battery. If I park the car for a few weeks I'll put a float charger on it, otherwise I only have factory accessories and recently I put on a new alternator.

I had a few bad Optima Red tops, so soured on those. The Costco battery lasted well, but around So Cal they seem to have exited or cut back on the battery business.
 
This fellow wrote a dissertation on automotive starting batteries and deep-cycle batteries:

Here are just a couple key excerpts from his very useful site at
http://jgdarden.com/batteryfaq/carfaq7.htm

"For car batteries, select the battery with CCA (Cold Cranking Amps) that will meet (or just exceed the vehicle manufacturer's recommendation), or is best suited for the coldest temperatures encountered in your climate. This is because more CCA requires greater plate surface area and in order to fit more surface area in the same space, this means thinner plates. Thinner plates will normally cause shorter overall service life. Do not substitute CA (Cranking Performance Amps), MCA (Marine Cranking Amps), or HCA (Hot Cranking Amps) for CCA. In hot climates, buying batteries with double or triple your vehicle's cranking amp requirements is usually a waste of money. Unless starting batteries are used in extremely cold climates, increased CCA is required to crank a sluggish engine and over come inefficiency of a cold battery. James W. Douglas' recommendation in his February 2000 article, Battery Selection--A Consumers Guide, in The Battery Man magazine, is:

"The sleek, aerodynamic designs have low cooling airflow through the engine compartment and that small in stature battery with high cold crank [amps] will have many very thin lead plates just to get the necessary surface area to make that big cold crank number. It will have a lower volume of electrolyte to provide the cooling necessary for long life and the greater capacity to run the [electrical] systems on the car. All of those thin plates will corrode away and fail long before expected putting the high performance battery's life below that of the lower CCA rated battery with the lower cost. Your best rule-of-thumb is, if it meets the OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturers) recommendation, buy it. Look for the highest reserve capacity [RC] battery that meet your CCA (Cold Cranking Amps) requirement for your climate."

7.8.4. More Reserve Capacity (RC) or Amp Hours (AH) is a good
thing.

============

AND this excerpt:

"Freshness

Lead-acid batteries are perishable and sulfate in storage due to their natural self discharge, especially in temperatures above 80° F (26.7° C). Please see Section 16 for more information on sulfation.

"Determining the "freshness" of a battery is sometimes difficult. Unless it has been periodically recharged or is "dry charged" (shipped without electrolyte), NEVER buy a wet Standard (Sb/Sb) or Low Maintenance (Sb/Ca) battery that is MORE than three months old or a wet "Maintenance Free" (Ca/Ca) battery that is MORE than six months old. Dry charged batteries are shipped without electrolyte, but usually have "sell by" dates of one to three years. Depending on the temperature, AGM (Ca/Ca) and Gel Cell (Ca/Ca) batteries can be stored six to 18 months before the State-of-Charge drops below 80%. Please see Section 16. for more information on sulfation.

"Dealers will place their older batteries in storage racks so they will sell first and they do not have to maintain them. The fresher batteries generally can be found in the rear of the battery rack or in a storage room. For a wet battery, the date of formation is often stamped on the case or printed on a sticker. If at all possible, have a new battery measured with a digital DC voltmeter or tested. Recharge if necessary, before the battery leaves the store. This can save a lot of time and frustration if the new battery is discharged, sulfated or has a manufacturing defect."

============

And this:

Pick the battery type that matches your charging system, application and driving habits.

"For starting an engine, using a car or starting battery is normally a better choice than a deep cycle battery because it is specifically designed for shallow (1%-5%) discharges. The battery type MUST match the vehicle's charging system or the new battery or charging system could be damaged. The easiest way to accomplish this is to replace your battery with the same or compatible type of battery that was originally installed by the vehicle's manufacturer. The exception to this is in hot climates, using a non-sealed wet "Maintenance Free" car battery (with filler caps) is highly encouraged because lost water can be easily replaced. For batteries with side terminals commonly found in General Motors vehicles, check the terminal bolt length and do not over-tighten because you might crack the battery case and cause a leak. Driving habits also is a consideration. Non-use over a week or especially in the winter, short trips of less than a mile, will not keep the battery fully recharged. This could cause a gradual accumulation of lead sulfate which can prematurely reduce the performance and capacity or a frozen battery.

"For a deep cycle application, using a deep cycle battery is a much better alternative than using a starting battery because the deep cycle battery will have a much longer service life when deeply (50% to 80%) discharged because the plates are thicker."

=======

Again, here's his helpful web site with lots, lots more information (about 50 pages worth):

http://jgdarden.com/batteryfaq/carfaq7.htm
 
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Great quotes, Built_Well. I've been harping in another thread about considering the Reserve Capacity when buying a battery.

Lots of smaller batteries can make a high CCA but have a small RC because they use very thin plates... which means a shorter life.

Since the pro-rated warranty is useless (since it is based on some bogus high list price) and the thin plate battery will usually make it through the Replacement Warranty period of 1 or 2 years, they don't care.

So when selecting a battery:
-Get matching CCA or just a little more
-Get the most RC available in that group size
-Get the longest Replacement Warranty
 
Optima has either been phenomenal for my family or awful. No in between. I can't tell you how many have lasted 15 years and how many have been returned within a year for a new one. I swear their quality control is a binary 0 or 1. I quit buying and have had my last 3 genuine Honda. Been happy with those,
 
Originally Posted By: Yup
Optima has either been phenomenal for my family or awful. No in between. I can't tell you how many have lasted 15 years and how many have been returned within a year for a new one. I swear their quality control is a binary 0 or 1. I quit buying and have had my last 3 genuine Honda. Been happy with those,

Too bad Optima was bought by one of the big companies. They used to be a small Colorado company that made incredibly good batteries before the buy-out, from what I've read online.
I didn't know Honda makes, or at least puts its name on batteries made by someone else. I've never heard of a Toyota branded battery. How long did your 3 Honda batteries last?
 
Originally Posted By: HangFire
Since the pro-rated warranty is useless (since it is based on some bogus high list price) and the thin plate battery will usually make it through the Replacement Warranty period of 1 or 2 years, they don't care.

The nice thing about the Duracell 24F and 35 batteries at Sam's Club and other retailers is they come with a 3-year replacement warranty, not just 2 years like my dealer's Interstate model for the Camry. And like The_Eric said, the Duracell battery is made by East Penn/Deka. I think I'm going to buy the Duracell (not to be confused with AutoZone's Duralast) when the time comes, but low and behold, my battery appears to not be leaking by the negative terminal anymore! No more corrosion for 4 days!

Maybe the vaseline I applied to the negative terminal's metal contacts 4 days ago and the battery kit pad placed on the terminal 6 days ago did the trick! I hope so. Usually just 2 or 3 days is enough to start seeing corrosion with my battery after a cleaning.

All looks well now, but if the problem returns, I'm going to Sam's and picking up a Duracell. Not sure if I will get the Group 24F size ("F" stands for reverse polarity from what I've read online) or if I'm going to get the smaller Group 35 size. Both fit and are appropriate for the car.

The OEM Panasonic must be a Group 24F because its dimensions are identical to 24F, but the Duracell Group 35 is smaller, has about 100 to 150 fewer CCA (an advantage for longer life probably), and is $2 less at Sam's: $97 versus the 24F's $99 price. Both sizes carry the 3-year replacement warranty. Would folks here select 24F or 35 for a Camry?
 
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