pulling the trigger on HID's in the Milan.

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I retrofit my Silverado in 2008 and retrofit my Honda in 2011. Last fall I retrofit my fathers Lincoln. My Milan is the first car that came with Projectors. I installed a Ultra Kit this weekend. To my naked eye (and every person ive showed to to for opinions) I discern absolutely no difference from a halogen projector to a HID projector. It came out amazing. My newest setup is a 35w Ultra kit and it is very sharp and clean. I know that not everyone on here regardless agrees with retrofitting and earlier in this thread I gave my opinion on that as well. Im glad the most recent install came out so well, and was so simple. There is no glare, other than the color of the light changing from dim yellow to a crisp white. Im pleased.
 
Here is a quote from the link I posted in my previous post.


 Re: What's wrong with projector retrofits?
 Originally Posted by splew 
So what exactly makes HID projector retrofits so bad? The projector is basically a self contained unit, so as long as one places it in a clear lens headlamp, in a position reasonably close to what it would have been in on the donor vehicle, then it should perform just fine, no?
No. In just your two sentences here, you've explicitly skated right past three major problems, and that's not even the complete list. One at a time:

The projector is basically a self contained unit
Most projectors aren't self-contained. None of the ones found in original equipment headlamp assemblies are self-contained (that is, they're not sealed from water/dirt entry and they're unshrouded so they emit stray light in directions other than through the condenser lens; for these reasons they require being inside a housing. If the housing's not designed to hold a particular projector, in most cases the "alien" projector cannot be acceptably mounted in the "surrogate" housing. Certainly this is the case whenever the housing must be hacked in any way (cut, drilled, lens removed, etc); once that's done an acceptable environmental seal is never re-achieved. More about this alien/surrogate mounting issue below.

There is such a thing as a self-contained projector. Hella, for example, has an extensive range of 50mm, 60mm, 90mm, and 120mm units. Low beams, high beams, low/high beams, fog beams...halogen, HID, LED...Right-traffic, left-traffic, etc. However, these don't erase the problems, they just change to a different set of problems. A headlamp is type-approved or certified to the applicable regulations in the form it's produced. Putting a projector, self-contained or not, behind a lens it wasn't specifically designed to be behind (as in an aerodynamic composite front light assembly from whatever vehicle you have in mind) means you no longer have a certified/type-approved lamp, you have an assemblage of parts that very likely does not perform the way the regulations require. This is not intuitive, but those lenses are not 100% transparent, and their surfaces are reflective. It is a very, very common occurrence during the design and engineering phase of an OEM headlamp that changes must be made (and remade multiple times) because while the optical package -- projector or reflector -- meets the requirements without the front lens, when the optical pacakge is put into the housing package including that front lens, the lamp doesn't comply. And an optics package that complies in one housing doesn't necessarily (often doesn't!) comply in another housing package, just because of differences in the size, shape, angles, and distance of the front lens and other elements of the housing. Typically the problems are insufficient intensity in the low-intensity zones (above the cutoff) due to less-than-full transmission through the front lens, and reflections within the headlamp bouncing stray light all over the place where it doesn't belong and isn't allowed. Highly trained and very well (and expensively) equipped engineers spend a lot of hours fixing these problems on each and every new project, because that is the nature of the job. It is not something that can successfully be tackled in a homeowner's garage, on a hobbyist's workbench, or behind the Retrofitz-R-Us website.

in a position reasonably close to what it would have been in on the donor vehicle
"Reasonably close" doesn't even begin to cut the mustard. Not only are there beam alignment issues (the high beam must be properly placed with respect to the low beam, and either it's right or it's wrong -- there is no such thing as "reasonably close"), but there are also center-of-mass/center-of-gravity issues. It is a lot harder than it might seem to devise a mount for a projector so that it stays put, doesn't shake, doesn't lose its aim, doesn't detach from its mounts. This, too, is something that practically cannot be done on a by-guess/by-gosh basis.

it should perform just fine

Headlamps are life-safety equipment. All aspects of their performance -- not just the beam patterns they produce, but also their mechanical and environmental robustness and, with HIDs and LEDs, electrical and thermal safety -- are specified in detail, objectively, by the applicable technical regulations. A wide range of performance and design are permitted, but the basic requirements are stringent and exacting. None of it can be assessed by eye. "Gosh, it looks good to me!" or "Wow, look at that sharp cutoff!" or "Nobody ever flashes me at night" or "I drive past cops every day and I never get tickets" just are not relevant responses to the real safety and reliability issues involved.

It takes an enormous amount of money and a long time to design, engineer, tool, and test/approve/certify a legitimate headlamp. It's not because the people doing the work are slow-paced or lazy!

Also read more information on "LED conversions" this, and here.
 
For what it's worth, "retrofitting" in this context can mean two different things, and I've seen it used both ways in this thread, so I thought that I'd highlight the difference.

Definition 1 of retrofit: installing a re-based HID bulb into a halogen unit (projector, reflector, etc).

Definition 2 of retrofit: opening the headlamp assembly, removing the halogen projector, and installing a projector designed and intended for an HID bulb.

Both are problematic for reasons posted previous.
 
There are some projectors that are closed off:
(the ones I know of)
S2000
TSX (1st gen)
Q45
FX (1st gen)
RX350 AFS (low beam only)
TL bixenon
 
other factor to consider is that LED headlights are out and getting cheaper so getting the super long life HID may result in a working light that might be better replaced with a new technology.- it may be a replacement for LED, such as laser beam variable intensity. Although, anybody used LED yet?
 
Originally Posted By: bmwjohn
Although, anybody used LED yet?


They are impressive with proper optics. My folks' 2014 Acura MDX has LED lamps and they are nice.
 
well, im pulling the whole system out, The computer in my car is not liking the new kit, sad as its such a nice setup. Ive installed error code, resistors, a harness.. I keep getting error codes.. As much as I like this setup, its coming out. I believe the Osram nightbreakers are going in.
 
Originally Posted By: bmwjohn
other factor to consider is that LED headlights are out and getting cheaper so getting the super long life HID may result in a working light that might be better replaced with a new technology.- it may be a replacement for LED, such as laser beam variable intensity. Although, anybody used LED yet?


I quit HID lights already. LED's in everything. Side by side, they make the factory HID's look kind of sorry.

No warmup, brighter, no issues.
 
Originally Posted By: OtisBlkR1
Ive always measured where the center of a halogen beam is on a wall, marked it, done my retrofit, then measured the top line (top of the beam) off of that wall marking. If anything my beams may be a little low !

*Side note* it amazes me that done correctly that still so many people are against this lighting setup. I agree that fitting standard HID's in a reflector housing is not only wrong but very inconsiderate to other drivers. however using projectors and measuring for proper height, when complete its a far superior lighting system to conventional "bulb n bucket" setups and I have had great success with retrofitting headlights.


There are always going to be those who are going to tell you that a government and a computer knows better than you do what your naked eyes see.

It's your car and your vision. Do what works best for your vision, so long as you are not inconvenient toward other drivers. You've already done that, so carry on.
 
The standard "its evil, its awful, you will go blind" routine. Yes, those things CAN happpen, but most of what has been said is just quoting dogma. There are plenty of retrofit lights with better beam control than factory HIDs. I'm not saying it WILL work, but a blanket statement that it won't isn't correct either.

As far as lights go, ditch the h11's and put in H9's. No legal h11 will have the output of h9. The beauty is the h9 has the exact same specs and just uses a brighter burning fillament to get nearly 1k lumens more light. The tradeoff, they burnout faster.
 
Originally Posted By: Snoman002
There are plenty of retrofit lights with better beam control than factory HIDs.

Those retrofit HID headlights using better projector bowls such as S2000, LS460 ... are better than some factory HID's is more accurate description.
 
I don't know if this is retrofit or not, my E430 had HID option from factory, if I buy complete OEM HID assembly to replace the halogen is this legal or illegal ?

Same for some newer cars with HID option, if owner buys OEM HID projectors to replace halogen projectors, is it illegal ?
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: Snoman002
There are plenty of retrofit lights with better beam control than factory HIDs.

Those retrofit HID headlights using better projector bowls such as S2000, LS460 ... are better than some factory HID's is more accurate description.



You mistook my comment, although it was my fault for using the common term for replacing the projector with a HID projector. In this case it was only to describe fitting HID burners in halogen projectors.

As far as LED goes, its not there yet. Factory stuff is good, but the replacement bulbs are not capable of beating HID.

And as far as legality, well then get some silverstars or go to the dealer, because ANYTHING beyond that is illegal. Then again large soda's are illegal in some states while weed is legal in others...but clearly legality is a perfect measurement.
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
I don't know if this is retrofit or not, my E430 had HID option from factory, if I buy complete OEM HID assembly to replace the halogen is this legal or illegal ?

Same for some newer cars with HID option, if owner buys OEM HID projectors to replace halogen projectors, is it illegal ?


If the car had it as an option and you convert it with oem parts it's technically legal.
 
Originally Posted By: Snoman002
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: Snoman002
There are plenty of retrofit lights with better beam control than factory HIDs.

Those retrofit HID headlights using better projector bowls such as S2000, LS460 ... are better than some factory HID's is more accurate description.



You mistook my comment, although it was my fault for using the common term for replacing the projector with a HID projector. In this case it was only to describe fitting HID burners in halogen projectors.

As far as LED goes, its not there yet. Factory stuff is good, but the replacement bulbs are not capable of beating HID.

And as far as legality, well then get some silverstars or go to the dealer, because ANYTHING beyond that is illegal. Then again large soda's are illegal in some states while weed is legal in others...but clearly legality is a perfect measurement.


Silverstars are not the best option, usually the best halogen options for many vehicles are Phillips Xtreme vision or Xtreme power bulbs or Phillips HIR2 bulbs if you use 9006. Clear colorless glass always beats blue coated.

As you see the Silverstars recently removed some of their blue coating around the filament to get more light on the road and also there was the class action lawsuit still not paid out for false claims of output.
 
Originally Posted By: Snoman002
Phillips HIR2 would be illegal in a car that uses 9006...


Yes they would be but if you have good condition oem housings that are properly aimed, at least you won't be blinding anyone else.
 
An HID retrofit is often a viable solution for a underperforming halogen projector headlight.

Low beams projectors mechanically have a touch less than 1/2 the bulb output "cut off" due to internal configuration. In other words, there is a "cut off plate" that blocks more than half the reflected light. Couple that with poor reflector and lens efficiency (due to small size) and the total output lumens, once retrofit with a quality 4300K, 3000+ lumen HID setup is around 1000 lumens. Just about right for a nice set of low beams.

In addition, it's completely legal "IF" the output meets federal guidelines. Which, in this case, it probably will. Candela output at specified positions (yes the federal specification is very specific) Check it out:

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2004-title49-vol5/xml/CFR-2004-title49-vol5-sec571-108.xml

Since we already know that a 3200 lumen HID bulb in a projector housing meets federal guidelines for maximum candela output, the rest is simply meeting the minimum and maximum candela per measurement zone.

To answer the original question, I've had the best success with the mid range kits. It's sometimes obvious when someone is selling an "el-cheapo" kit, and trying to pass it off as good quality. The way I can tell, is by looking at the pictures carefully, then asking if the picture shown is exactly what I'm purchasing.
 
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