What's with the newer cars and their 0-20W ****?

[4wheeldog]

Originally Posted By: Carbon12
Is it just me or does it seem like most engines now have a higher sump capacity than say even 10 years ago? It seems like V8s are holding 8 or 9 qts now. My 98 silverado with a 5.7L only held 5qts. Wouldn't the higher volume result in lower oil temps and thus higher viscosity? Maybe xW-20 no thinner under actual conditions of use?


A bigger sump effects the time it takes for the oil to reach operating temperature much more than it does the ultimate running temp.

Larger sumps would seem to be a reaction to the 'Merican public's aversion to use of the dipstick. More oil in the sump, especially with extended OCIs, means it is less likely to run too low before the next change.

 

[Garak]

Well, you know how it goes, Merk. Just because something will flow downhill faster than another doesn't mean it will pump at a higher rate. As for cooling, if I really have to tweak my oil choice to optimize cooling in a daily driver, I've got bigger problems than oil choice.

 

[fdcg27]

These are old arguments that have been gradually debunked in the many thick vs thin threads over the years.
That neither flow nor oil temperature change with grade are pretty well accepted here now.
Much of what the Florida plastic surgeon wrote years ago is no longer accepted by very many here.
It was, though, a departure point from which logical discussion could progress.
It's probably time for a new MOU curriculum that better reflects reality as we have come to recognize it.
After all, medical schools no longer teach bloodletting so maybe we should no longer be teaching newbies that a thinner grade is always the answer, as though if all you have is a hammer, then every problem is a nail.
Maybe the first sentence of this new curriculum should read "Any engine will deliver many miles of reliable performance on a wide range of oil grades".

 

[CT8]

Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: 1200bruce
I have a 2011 Mustang 5.0L, 2008 Miata and a Forester 2013 and they are all suppose to take this "thin stuff", is it just for polution reasons, just to get the engine heated up fast?
Thanks Bruce


CAFE I would think.

Yes it is for CAFE regulations.

 

[CT8]

Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
In the long run, a 30 weight would be more efficient. Engines start losing their efficiency when the cylinder walls and piston rings start wearing out. Not to mention the valve guides, camshaft lobes, and all the various bearings.

This guy says it best:

"Short-term Thinking
As wear increases, the efficiency of an engine declines. Valve train wear slightly changes valve timing and movement. Ring and liner wear affect compression. The wear hurts fuel efficiency and power output by an imperceptible amount at first, but then the difference in fuel economy between an SAE 10W-30 and SAE 5W-20 is hardly noticeable. Efficiency continues to decline as wear progresses. Perhaps optimizing wear protection is the way to reduce fuel consumption over the life of the engine.

Certainly engines that have experienced significant ring and liner wear benefit from thicker oils. Thicker oil use results in compression increases, performance improvements and reduced oil consumption."

LINK


That's an out of date article. It was written when GF-3 was the current spec.
What would make the article out of date? The Lubrication needs haven't changed.

 

[SHOZ]

115k miles on my '08 Hyundai Accent. Been running M1 0w20 AFE for the last 60k at a 7500 OCI. Mileage just keeps getting better. Up to +40 mpg now. EPA average is 29 mpg. Just switched to M1 0w20 EP and am going to a 10k OCI.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Maybe the first sentence of this new curriculum should read "Any engine will deliver many miles of reliable performance on a wide range of oil grades".

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: Garak
In all, this thread is a little far fetched.

Sometimes simple and unscientific is better than far fetched.

Perhaps, but most of the time it's just simple and unscientific, giving a response that means nothing.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
In the 50's 20w-20 was a popular oil. So, 20 weight oils are not really new. Today's 20 weight oils are very good.


I would ask, "Where has the OP been for the last 10 years?"

Younger people tend to forget the history of engine oil technology.

Take for example my dad's 1950's Big Block Buick engines. All speced 20W20s'.

 

[1200bruce]

I asume I'm the "OP", since I'm 61 I've seen it around for sometime now. I'm just new to post this at a site like this one, so I did it to see what the group would point to as the reason it's gotten "thinner". Thanks Bruce

 

[KCJeep]

Correct OP is original poster.

 

[il_signore97]

Originally Posted By: 1200bruce
I asume I'm the "OP", since I'm 61 I've seen it around for sometime now. I'm just new to post this at a site like this one, so I did it to see what the group would point to as the reason it's gotten "thinner". Thanks Bruce



Welcome to the forums Bruce, and to answer your question directly, poster "fdcg27" said it best:

Originally Posted By: fdcg27

Maybe the first sentence of this new curriculum should read "Any engine will deliver many miles of reliable performance on a wide range of oil grades".



And in reality, this is exactly the reason why manufacturers have been going thinner. It's not because of cooling, flow, or other items that sound good on paper but really have no bearing on proper lubrication in an engine... As a manufacturer, if the usage profile of vehicles sold in North America is well suited to a thinner oil, why not use it and reap the benefits of lower tax dollars in the form of CAFE credits (corporate average fuel economy)?

By no means does this mean that your engine will suffer a horrible death on a low HTHS 20 grade oil, but it DOES mean that you can safely move up a grade (or two) without issue as long as your choice is reasonable for the expected weather (i.e. don't use a 15W40 if it's -30 F outside - a 0W40 or 5W40 would be more appropriate in that case for example)...

Basically, there are a few considerations you want to think about prior to departing from the specified grade of oil as per the manufacturer (in your case, a 20 grade oil): Is it under warranty, and is that important to you personally to keep the warranty satisfied, how do you use your car/truck, what is your climate and what challenges does it present (temperate, extreme heat, extreme cold, etc)... The list can go on, but you kind of get the point. For most people, a 20 grade where specified is fine, but other grades (if properly chosen) are also fine!


There is a lot of information on this site, some is excellent, some is bunk. Happy reading and don't hesitate to challenge the group here if you have questions

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
In the 50's 20w-20 was a popular oil. So, 20 weight oils are not really new. Today's 20 weight oils are very good.


I would ask, "Where has the OP been for the last 10 years?"

Younger people tend to forget the history of engine oil technology.

Take for example my dad's 1950's Big Block Buick engines. All speced 20W20s'.


Mola, while I agree with the sentiment, the hths of a 20w20 was likely to be closer to 2.9, the minimum for a modern 30 grade.

It was the temporary shear when multi grades became common that caused hths to be included in j300.