'01 Jeep 4.0 Mobil 1 10w-30 & Delvac 1

[brian]

10w-30 5w-40 5w-40 5w-40 0w-30 0w-30

8/04 10/04 1/06 5/06 12/06 2/07

6230 mi 9961 mi 11416 16477 8,273 11305

42,283 52,361 79,416 96,974 113,333 124638

K&N FL1a LF3487 LF3487 AmsEAO15 AmsEAO15

Iron 50 41 26 64 28 36

Chromium 2 1 2 3 1 1

Lead 1 1 3 3 2 1

Copper 5 6 10 10 4 5

Tin 1 0 0 0 0 0

Aluminum 4 6 5 7 3 4

Nickel 1 1 2 2 0 0

Silver 0 0 0 0 0 0

Silicon 9 14 15 15 18 19

Boron 168 35 25 26 5 2

Sodium 15 9 12 19 10 12

Potassium 2 4 6 10 2 2

Magnesium 59 439 365 370 182 165

Calcium 2447 2259 1969 2151 2543 2652

Phos. 1056 1210 961 1114 794 700

Zinc 1046 1455 1200 1293 987 924

Moly 85 8 4 5 5 3

Fuel A A A A A A

Water
Visc100C 10.4 15.6 16.7 19.4 12.2 12

TBN 6.29 N/A 4.79 4.11 4.8 1.16

Oxid 34 28 9.00 20 19 19

Nitr 15 15 5.60 10.6 12.50 12.4



Here are the most recent results. The most recent sample is with GC 0w-30 and one of the new Amsoil EaO15 filters. I am running GC 0w-30 but this time with a LF3487 filter instead of the Amsoil EAO15 for comparison.

-brian

 

[brian]

10w-30 5w-40 5w-40 5w-40 0w-30 0w-30

8/04 10/04 1/06 5/06 12/06 2/07

6230 mi 9961 mi 11416 16477 8,273 11305

42,283 52,361 79,416 96,974 113,333 124638

K&N FL1a LF3487 LF3487 AmsEAO15 AmsEAO15

Iron 50 41 26 64 28 36

Chromium 2 1 2 3 1 1

Lead 1 1 3 3 2 1

Copper 5 6 10 10 4 5

Tin 1 0 0 0 0 0

Aluminum 4 6 5 7 3 4

Nickel 1 1 2 2 0 0

Silver 0 0 0 0 0 0

Silicon 9 14 15 15 18 19

Boron 168 35 25 26 5 2

Sodium 15 9 12 19 10 12

Potassium 2 4 6 10 2 2

Magnesium 59 439 365 370 182 165

Calcium 2447 2259 1969 2151 2543 2652

Phos. 1056 1210 961 1114 794 700

Zinc 1046 1455 1200 1293 987 924

Moly 85 8 4 5 5 3

Fuel A A A A A A

Water
Visc100C 10.4 15.6 16.7 19.4 12.2 12

TBN 6.29 N/A 4.79 4.11 4.8 1.16

Oxid 34 28 9.00 20 19 19

Nitr 15 15 5.60 10.6 12.50 12.4

Here are the most recent results. The most recent sample is with GC 0w-30 and one of the new Amsoil EaO15 filters. I am running GC 0w-30 but this time with a LF3487 filter instead of the Amsoil EAO15 for comparison.

-brian

 

[JAG]

Very nice data collection. The last GC run looks great except for the TBN which seems to have dropped so much that I question its accuracy. Or maybe the Lab's technique has changed since the previous oils were tested? I think you should get that question answered since TBN of 1.2 is getting into territory where deposits could start forming. Once they form, it takes a long time using best methods to get rid of them.

 

[Gary Allan]

D1 appears to be the best oil over the long haul. It's unfortunate that it's so expensive. I guess it's no more expensive than GC ...so...

This isn't the first UOA that shows GC as being somewhat weak kneed in the TBN dept. It doesn't occur in every UOA ..but more often than not, it appears to be a 10k MAX oil ..with readings in the 2.x-3.x in the 7500 range.

I really haven't researched it since I don't know how to begin the data filtering, but D1 has some properties that are exclusive of JUST its viscosity that reduces Fe shedding in this/these engines. The speculation is that the Fe is timing chain wear. RTS doesn't appear to deliver the same effect, so I have to reject that the reductions are exclusively due to D1's higher viscosity.

Has anyone else caught the "time span variable" here? Did I figure it correctly

Code:

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10w-30 5w-40 5w-40 5w-40 0w-30 0w-30

8/04 10/04 1/06 5/06 12/06 2/07

6230 mi 9961 mi 11416 16477 8,273 11305

(2months)(15months)(4months)(7months)(3 months)

---

That's a whole lot of time in the seat ...but it obviously isn't consistent/constant.

 

[mdocod]

just looking at these UOAs... nice compilation you have going here.. I've been looking for a good 4.0 set like this.. have some friends with that engine.

Interesting trends.. the D1 definitely proves it's robustness in the TBN department, probably capable of running over 20k if it weren't for it thickening...

Noticing that the GC seems to deliver better copper results, while D1 seems to give better iron results... and then the GC seems to stay in grade better, while the D1 holds TBN better...

leads me to wonder.... what if you mixed the 2 50%/50%. maybe the GC could hold the viscosity in check, while the D1 could hold the TBN in check, lol.

 

[brian]

Gary,

The driving cycle has changed some. The gaps are from a time or two I forgot to sample the oil. For example, I meant to take one 5/05. I believe I ran Delvac 1 to 10-12Kmi those times. Also this summer I did an Auto-RX treatment at 100Kmi. I am currently running GC 0w-30 with a Fleetguard LF3487 filer to see how it may be different from the Amsoil filters (which seem superior). I am glad you mentioned the RTS deficiency. As far as cost goes, with Chevron Delo 15w-40 at $10.88/gal at Wal Mart, the synthetic is getting to be a better and better deal.

Brian

 

[brian]

Gary,

I am not satisfied with the TBN retention values of GC 0w-30 as compared to the Delvac 1. However, I am satisfied with the Iron levels and viscosity of GC 0w-30 and the Amsoil filters. That is one of the reasons I am running the LF3487 as a comparison filter.

I am probably going to test Amsoil ACD 10w-30 and/or AME 15w-40 to see how these perform in the Jeep 4.0 with regards to thickening, iron level, and TBN retention.

Brian

 

[Gary Allan]

I'll be looking forward to your results. I'm dismayed with RTS ..and (cough-cough) will be switching everything over to Amsoil as needed and practical after a few side bar experiments are out of the way. I really wanted RTS to be a panacea for the 4.0/2.5 Fe shedding ..like D1 was. Unfortunately, there were fuel issues in the testing that clouded the results ...so, another run on RTS to see what's the real cause here. In my 2.5's case, there may be no solution due to the, almost exclusive, short trip service that it sees. When my daughter goes to college in the Fall, then my wife can put some long mileage on it for a while to see if this alters the results. RTS, itself, is robust enough and endures the service without issues. The Pb was ZERO over 6k+/- ..but the Fe was rather high, even for this engine group.

I'm working with Terry on this ...so I'll hopefully get it locked down to tolerable levels.

 

[brian]

Date Miles On Miles On Filter Oil Brand Model Vis. Vis. TBN Fe Cr Pb Cu Sn Al Ni Si B Na Mg Ca P Zn Mo GLYCOL % H20 %FUEL %SOLIDS %SOOT %OXD %NOX
Unit Oil 100C Tin Nickel Silicon Boron Mag Calcium Moly Potassium

01 JEEP CHEROKEE
Mobil 1 Castrol GC Syntec 0w-30
11/24/07 144204 11066 Mobil 1 Castrol GC Syntec 0w-30 12.4 4.73 33 1 1 4 0 4 1 16 1 7 171 2706 819 973 2 3 N 7/20/07 133138 8500 LF3487 Castrol GC Syntec 0w-30 12 4.43 21 1 2 4 0 3 1 9 2 11 183 2664 798 996 2 3 N 2/28/07 124638 11305 EAO15 Castrol GC Syntec 0w-30 12 1.16 36 1 1 5 0 4 0 19 2 12 165 2652 700 924 3 2 N 12/19/06 113333 8273 EAO15 Castrol GC Syntec 0w-30 12.2 4.8 28 1 2 4 0 3 0 18 5 10 182 2543 794 987 5 2 N 5/26/06 96764 16477 LF3487 Mobil Delvac 1 5w-40 19.7 4.11 64 3 3 10 0 7 2 15 26 19 370 2151 1114 1293 5 10 N 1/25/06 79415 11416 LF3487 Mobil Delvac 1 5w-40 16.7 4.79 26 2 3 10 0 5 2 15 25 12 365 1969 961 1200 4 6 N 10/10/04 52316 9961 FL1a Mobil Delvac 1 5w-40 15.6 NT 41 1 1 6 0 6 1 14 35 9 439 2259 1210 1455 8 4 N 8/2/04 42283 6230 K&N Mobil 1 SuperSyn 10w-30 10.4 6.29 50 2 1 5 1 4 1 9 168 15 59 2447 1056 1046 85 2 N

 

[brian]

Here are 2 more samples with GC Syntec 0w-30. I've used it with the Amsoil EAO15, Fleetguard Microglass LF3487, and most recently the Mobil 1 Extended Performance filters. It may be a 10-11Kmi oil for me, at least outside the winter months. Only one sample showed a very low TBN, otherwise its been pretty consistent.

Regards,
Brian

 

[Gary Allan]

Fe 33/21/36/26/64/26/41/50
CR 1/1/1/1/3/2/1/2
PB 1/2/1/2/3/3/1/1
CU 4/4/5/4/10/10/6/5
SN 0/0/0/0/0/0/0/1
Al 4/3/4/3/7/5/6/4
Ni 1/1/0/0/2/2/1/1
Si 16/9/19/18/15/15/14/9
B 1/2/2/5/26/25/35/168
Na 7/11/12/10/19/12/9/15
Mg 171/183/165/182/370/365/439/59
Ca 2706/2664/2652/2543/2151/1969/2259/2447
P 819/798/700/794/1114/961/1210/1056
Z 973/996/924/987/1293/1200/1455/1046
Mo 2/2/3/5/5/4/8/65
? 3/3/2/2/10/6/4/2

Where did I screw up?

 

[brian]

Not sure what you mean Gary?

Brian

 

[Gary Allan]

I tried to align up all the numbers to the elements/additives/contaminants ..but I ended up with the last row being (?). I even pasted the numbers into notepad or wordpad ..put spaces in between them ..used a straight edge to align them vertically and then typed them in. I was left with one set of data numbers that had no header.

I was pretty tired and I was sure that there was an easier way to make it viewable ..but darned if I could figure it out. Anyway, what's the last set of readings? 3/3/2/2/etc./etc/etc/

 

[brian]

Potassium.

I have it in an excel spreadsheet and try to use "code" to format it but I have difficulties. Any suggestions?

Brian

 

[Gary Allan]

I don't see anything too out of whack mileagewise. Delvac 1 appears to be all that I ever considered it...which is just about the best oil out there for those who can use the weight and afford the price. I'd almost put no limit on it mileagewise in a year's time, assuming fuel and other stuff is in order. The Fe looks great ..all the other stuff, like sodium and silicon ..in my novice cursory scan looks acceptable. It may be improved upon ..but doesn't seem to be doing much.

I didn't see flash points. That's kinda a good barometer. Your Oxidation and Nitration numbers should be below 25 and 20 respectively. I haven't really figured out the full scope of their meaning yet, but above those levels is considered too high.

Good series of tests. GC's weakness, appears to be in the TBN dept. Otherwise, I think it did pretty good.

Given the length of service that you're getting out of these oils, I don't think that there's much to improve upon.

Good work!

 

[brian]

Hey Gary,

I am somewhat surprised the GC 0w-30 is working this well in the Jeep especially since they are known to like the 5w-40/10w-40/15w-40 viscosities better. Although the TBN was low one time, the other three times it was satisfactory. I've got enough GC 0w-30 from 2005 for a few more oil changes. I've also been using the GC 0-30 in the Getrag 360 5-speed manual transmission of my 1993 Dodge Cummins W250. After that will probably be back to Delvac 1 or AME 15w-40. With 147 Kmi this Jeep still does not drip or burn any oil. It had Mobil 1 10w-30 installed at 300 miles by the first owner through 42,000. From 42,000 to roughly 100,000 I used Delvac 1. At 100,000 I used Mobil 1 15w-40 and Auto-RX and started using the GC 0w-30.

Regards,
Brian

 

[Gary Allan]

Although I had my best UOA's with D1, I don't know if I attribute it to the viscosity. Way too many other 4.0 owners have had stellar UOA with conventional 10w-30. It's hard to divine (as in divining rod) just what unique property that it contains in formulation that distinguishes it from other products ..but there is no denying that it works well and for very long OCIs ..without skipping a beat.

GC appears to be a very good product, but not as "bulletproof" as D1. You're right about it only showing its weak knee in the TBN dept once.

Quote:
I've also been using the GC 0-30 in the Getrag 360 5-speed manual transmission of my 1993 Dodge Cummins W250.


I thought that this used an NV4500

These engines have an incredibly long lifespan in terms of miles. My wife's has had no appreciable consumption (some transitional consumption when switched to RTS) over its entire 130k+ life. I can't see it not making it well beyond 300k if the thing doesn't get cracked up. Fuel will be in short supply before it expires from fatigue.

Good luck!

 

[oilyriser]

The nickel was zero when you used the eao filter. I'm not sure if the filter was removing some of the wear, or wear causing particles. They now carry one that fits the subarus, for 15 bucks, which is not bad considering it'll be good for a whole year, saving the mess of two filter changes. I wonder if I can find one in Canada for that price.

Have you tried a paper air filter to see if the iron wear goes down a bit more?

 

[brian]

10w-30 5w-40 5w-40 5w-40 0w-30 0w-30 0w-30 0w-30 0w-30
8/04 10/04 1/06 5/06 12/06 2/07 7/07 11/07 2/08
6230 mi 9961 mi 11416 16477 8,273 11305 8500 11066 12286
42,283 52,361 79,416 96,974 113,333 124638 133138 144204 156290
K&N FL1a LF3487 LF3487 AmsEAO15 AmsEAO15LF3487 M1-301EP M1-301EP
Iron 50 41 26 64 28 36 21 33 73
Chromium 2 1 2 3 1 1 1 1 1
Lead 1 1 3 3 2 1 1 2 1
Copper 5 6 10 10 4 5 4 4 3
Tin 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Aluminum 4 6 5 7 3 4 3 4 4
Nickel 1 1 2 2 0 0 1 1 1
Silver 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Silicon 9 14 15 15 18 19 9 16 14
Boron 168 35 25 26 5 2 2 1 1
Sodium 15 9 12 19 10 12 11 7 6
Potassium 2 4 6 10 2 2 3 3 5
Magnesium 59 439 365 370 182 165 183 171 174
Calcium 2447 2259 1969 2151 2543 2652 2665 2706 2809
Phos. 1056 1210 961 1114 794 700 798 819 955
Zinc 1046 1455 1200 1293 987 924 996 973 972
Moly 85 8 4 5 5 3 2 2 3
Fuel A A A A A A A A A
Water Visc100C 10.4 15.6 16.7 19.4 12.2 12 12 12.4 12.72
TBN 6.29 N/A 4.79 4.11 4.8 1.16 4.43 4.73 4.9
Oxid 34 28 9.00 20 19 19 17 20 13
Nitr 15 15 5.60 10.6 12.50 12.4 11.1 12.9 8.8

Del DelESP DelESP DelESP DelESP DelESP MT&SUV AMO1040 AMO1040
2/09 5/09 7/09 10/09 12/09 11/10 7/11 1/13 8/13
11538 12210 10412 15254 13569 12906 13375 19491 14299
174100 186310 196722 211976 225545 238451 251826 283846 298145
LF3487 FL1A FL1A M1301EP FL1A FL1A FL1A FL1A M1301EP
Iron 55 43 26 48 77 78 109 123 113
Chromium 5 3 2 2 3 4 5 4 3
Lead 2 0 0 3 3 2 3 2 1
Copper 8 4 4 5 5 4 5 7 5
Tin 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 0 0
Aluminum 8 5 3 5 9 8 11 8 7
Nickel 1 1 1 1 0 2 2 3 2
Silver 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Silicon 41 10 9 13 13 15 14 13 20
Boron 26 23 23 26 21 24 24 6 4
Sodium 26 32 16 13 12 14 24 29 23
Potassium 25 9 5 4 4 5 5 19 21
Magnesium 280 9 5 708 642 687 5 123 5
Calcium 1978 520 680 1046 993 1067 1092 3526 3322
Phos. 974 1014 981 962 1005 990 1145 1034 1164
Zinc 1111 1014 981 1064 1088 1121 1169 1483 1420
Moly 6 2 2 3 4 4 5 6 6
Fuel A A A A A A A A A
Water Visc100C 13.77 11.79 15.57 16.13 15.83 16.12 17.08 15.02 14.69
TBN 1.54 2.75 4.46 2.83 2.82 2.77 2.09 2.93 4.6AN
Oxid 18 15 21 23 28 24 10 61 54
Nitr 12 9.6 12.4 13 17 13.8 5.9 16.2 13.2

AMO RTS540
2/14 1/15
12129 8327
310274 330541
FL1A NG1515
Iron 63 35
Chromium 2 2
Lead 0 4
Copper 4 4
Tin 0 1
Aluminum 6 7
Nickel 2 1
Silver 0 0
Silicon 9 18
Boron 4 37
Sodium 34 14
Potassium 43 3
Magnesium 24 973
Calcium 3803 513
Phos. 1260 982
Zinc 1476 1121
Moly 3 57
Fuel A A
Water Visc100C 15.14 14.35
TBN 2.65 5.32
Oxid 45 11.3
Nitr 11.3 13.9

Hey All,

I thought I'd update my oil analysis. Almost 300,000 miles of UOA's here. A couple of notes:

* Between 2/08 and 2/09 the factory head came off and was redone
* Around 180,000 miles I started leaking some oil
* Thermostat failed shut between 7/11 and 1/13 sample
* Between 2/14 and 1/15 the factory head came off again was replaced because it was cracked