Watts vs volt amps, what does power meter count?

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I have a Panasonic NN-SA651S microwave oven that, when not in use, draws 18 volt amps according to my Kill A Watt P3 (but just 1 watt).

Does the power company only count watts drawn, or when volt amps amount to more, are they counted like watts drawn?
 
here in North America: most (not all) utility companies charge residential electrical usage in kilo-watt/hr only.

kilo V-A is mainly applicable towards commercial/industrial electrical usage where reactive loads from large industrial electrical motors can have a more pronounced impact.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volt-ampere_reactive

Lastly: most home (residential) AC devices are not PF=1 (unless you use pure resistive load, such as tungsten filament light bulb, etc.) , so anything less than PF=1 (e.g. PF = 0.7), you'll see the lagging of kW/hr vs kVA/hr.

Q.
 
1 volt x 1 amp = 1 Watt, which is a unit of Power, not energy.
A kilowatt*hour is a unit of energy (such as you consumed one kilowatt of power over a period of one hour), and that's what the power company charges you for.
 
It would be neat to find a way to 'scope what's going on in there. Maybe something "pulses" 1/18 of the time and is triggering your meter in peak mode.

Does it annoy AM radio reception?
 
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
A kilowatt*hour is a unit of energy (such as you consumed one kilowatt of power over a period of one hour), and that's what the power company charges you for.

They should be required to use SI units.
wink.gif
 
Google power factor and then read the rest of the replies. You will know who is smoking and what.
 
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Google power factor and then read the rest of the replies. You will know who is smoking and what.

This. Utilities try to keep power factor close to 1 because they only get paid for real power, not reactive power. To be fair though, it's also to keep the system running efficiently, not just because of the money. They have capacitor banks strategically placed to help correct power factor. I work for an electric utility and I'm in charge of maintaining capacitor banks.
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
A kilowatt*hour is a unit of energy (such as you consumed one kilowatt of power over a period of one hour), and that's what the power company charges you for.

They should be required to use SI units.
wink.gif



Me too!

I want my electric bill each month to read:


12 Jiga Joules
grin2.gif
 
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As indicated above, the older style meters, being inductive devices (coils, etc.) don't really like to generate proper readings for the component of power that emanates from higher-order harmonics in the current waveform.

The devices that generate such are mainly electronics with active components such as transistors, diodes, etc.

When switching from an older-style analog meter to a digital meter, residential customers who are heavy into electronics, particularly poorly engineered devices with significant phantom power requirements (set-top boxes come to mind!), do legitimately see spikes in their bills as the newer style meters are much better at metering power consumption resulting from higher order harmonics.

Power != volts * amps. That computes, at best, volt amperes. The technical formula for computing power in AC involves multiplying the voltage vector by the conjugate of the current vector, ie: S = VI* to generate the 'complex power', and then splitting complex S into its rectangular components, ie: S = P + jQ, where P = real power, and Q = reactive power.
 
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Man, There are some really terrible answers here. Internet experts abound.

Home revenue meters measure real power, not apparent power, not reactive power. It's the product of the voltage and current that are in phase with each other.

The answer is you are being charged for 1 watt. After 1000 hours you will be charged for 1 kilowatt hour. About 25 cents.
 
Originally Posted By: exranger06
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Google power factor and then read the rest of the replies. You will know who is smoking and what.

This. Utilities try to keep power factor close to 1 because they only get paid for real power, not reactive power. To be fair though, it's also to keep the system running efficiently, not just because of the money. They have capacitor banks strategically placed to help correct power factor. I work for an electric utility and I'm in charge of maintaining capacitor banks.
"Power factor correction" capacitors. The company wants their meters to read properly.
 
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: exranger06
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Google power factor and then read the rest of the replies. You will know who is smoking and what.

This. Utilities try to keep power factor close to 1 because they only get paid for real power, not reactive power. To be fair though, it's also to keep the system running efficiently, not just because of the money. They have capacitor banks strategically placed to help correct power factor. I work for an electric utility and I'm in charge of maintaining capacitor banks.
"Power factor correction" capacitors. The company wants their meters to read properly.

Yes, that's what I said. Of course they want the meters to read properly. But maintaining a good power factor is essential to keep the whole system operating properly. They also need to maintain a good power factor to be in compliance with regulatory authorities.
 
Originally Posted By: exranger06
Yes, that's what I said. Of course they want the meters to read properly. But maintaining a good power factor is essential to keep the whole system operating properly. They also need to maintain a good power factor to be in compliance with regulatory authorities.


Inadequate reactive power = voltage collapse, which really, really isn't good for the overall customer experience. The design engineer of a plant (or a utility) needs to consider reactive power requirements over the entire cycle -- winter, summer (ie: AC loads), cold days and hot days.

To top it all off, if there's too many capacitors in a system, under certain conditions, resonance can develop (after all, power systems are full of R, L, and if you add C -- you get a classic resonant RLC filter). In some extreme cases, subsynchronous resonance (ie: resonant modes beneath system frequency) can migrate back to the generators and destroy them. Again, stuff that has to be considered by professionals.

In some cases, where the need for VArs varies quickly/frequently (ie: electric arc furnaces are notorious culprits), machines called "Static Var Compensators" are used. Basically instead of a switch to switch a capacitor on and off, they use a transistor )(called a "thyristor") that can be switched on and off at high speeds using feedback control.
 
Originally Posted By: SrDriver

Some electric devices like electric motors have a poor power factor. This and generating a sign wave that electric companies don't like.


If every load were truly sine-wave, the electric utilities wouldn't have problems with harmonics. As it stands, with the proliferation of rectified power supplies, and the potential of the problem increasing dramatically in severity if electric cars are popularized, there are some pretty significant issues in many areas.

There's a few issues. First, 3 phase AC transformers, with balanced loads, theoretically should have zero neutral current. The design and safety methodology for modern large-scale power systems assume relative balance, hence, neutrals are not implemented significantly (note when you drive by a transmission tower, the big wires are in multiples of 3 -- with either a tiny neutral wire, or even an Earth return system). Harmonics make everything behave differently, and can cause significant neutral current. Additionally, transformer ratings are based on linear sine-wave power. If the power is non-sine-wave (ie: non-linear), then there can be significant heating in the transformer's coils as higher-order harmonics saturate the magnetic capability of the core. This in turn causes a reduction in equipment capability beneath even nameplate capacity.
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Me too!

I want my electric bill each month to read:


12 Jiga Joules
grin2.gif


Make them use just joules and scientific notation. I'm sure that would create loads of fun for manually read meters.
wink.gif
 
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