Frustrating drive train noise - 2001 Accord 4 cyl

[ledslinger]

My 5 speed manual Honda bought new has 272K miles on it. Recently drove it to Florida where it performed excellent. On the way home it started making a constant droning, maybe a mild grinding in the drivetrain left front.

Before I took it apart, I jacked up the left front and ran it in gear, It was fairly noisy and I used a pipe to listen to the hub, and the cv joints. It seemed to be inboard and the cv joint was tight, boots intact. There was a little play in the intermediate shaft bearing so I replaced that.

It was quiet when I test ran with the cv shaft disconnected, but some noise once I installed the cv shaft. I took it out, took the boots off and inspected for wear. On the inner, I could only find one small area of pitting on the tulip cup where the tri bearings ride. The bearings are smooth and the there is no play in any of the shaft. I'm afraid if I replace the shaft the noise will still be there.

I'm wondering if there is a bad bearing on the diff carrier that doesn't make noise without the cv shaft connected. When the shaft is connected turning the joints and rotor adds enough drag to make the bearing make noise. I'm going to try turning the intermediate shaft and seeing if the diff turns smooth. The trans has had regular changes with Honda MTF and has Redline MTF in it now.

Any ideas? Can cv shafts make noise without any apparent wear? The noise is constant and doesn't depend on turning or accel or decel.

 

[OneEyeJack]

You may be on pace for a manual transmission rebuild. Those bearing wear out no matter what you do because they are contact bearings. They will gradually get louder and start to sing. The gears and other parts should be fine. Just make sure the rebuilder does not sell you more than you need. The Honda dealers at the time would only sell me a complete kit that included gears and syncros that I did not need.

When you get your tranny rebuilt use a transmission specific oil like Red Line MTL. Cheaper oils or engine oils shear down too much and loose their ability to effectively lubricate.

I learned my lesson with the Honda in my sig. At 200K the noise got really loud. I pulled it and replaced the bearings, seals, gaskets and some shims. The gears and syncros looked like new. I was using Mobil 1 10W-30 because the manual said use 10w-30 engine oil. Never again. I now use Red Line MTL. I'm at 430K+ and no noise, it shifts like new and appears to have a lot more miles left in it.

 

[Vikas]

why do you believe it could NOT be wheel bearing? that would be most likely cause, especially on a Honda. If I were in your shoes, that would be the first thing I would replace before worrying about the differential.

 

[Lolvoguy]

at that mileage, I'd consider replacing everything to be sure.

Given the cost, it would probably be cheaper to get a new(er) car

 

[ledslinger]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
why do you believe it could NOT be wheel bearing? that would be most likely cause, especially on a Honda. If I were in your shoes, that would be the first thing I would replace before worrying about the differential.


I listened with a pipe and the noise was inboard.

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: ledslinger
Originally Posted By: Vikas
why do you believe it could NOT be wheel bearing? that would be most likely cause, especially on a Honda. If I were in your shoes, that would be the first thing I would replace before worrying about the differential.


I listened with a pipe and the noise was inboard.

The bearing is unloaded though. Maybe try listening on the other side too. You might be hearing normal drivetrain noise through the pipe?

 

[qjohn]

What I did to diagnose trans noise on my '04 Sienna 2WD Open Differential:
Jack both front wheels in air.
Put in gear and confirm noise present (both wheels spinning).
Stop the wheels.
Carefully hold onto passenger side tire with both hands (hold it stationary), have wife slowly accelerate (driver side tire rotating) -- noise was still present, so conclude it is not right CV, not intermediate shaft nor rt wheel bearing.
Repeat on other side. Noise was still present so conclude it is in tranny.

 

[Vikas]

That is an excellent reasoning test but would it catch the noise from the carrier bearing?

 

[ledslinger]

Simplifying for clarity, no noise when run with left cv shaft off and intermediate shaft installed, right wheel on ground.

That would seem to point to left cv shaft or wheel bearing. Noise seems inboard but disassembled shaft shows no looseness and minimal wear.

 

[ledslinger]

Doing the cv shaft and the hub bearing. If that don't do it you'll read about it in the news.

 

[Vikas]

NO; we want to read about it regardless! Do the bearing first. Some of them are stupidly painful to do or to even to watch being done!

The CV joint noise would be different than the droning noise that you are getting. It will also be more pronounced on turns. If the CV joint is good, leave it alone. It is difficult to find an aftermarket chinese shaft as good as OEM.

Carrier bearing would start leaking from the seal if it is bad first before making any kind of noises. Are you losing MTL fluid? Any drops on the floor under transaxle?

If the carrier bearing is actually the culprit, I do not see any realistic fix for that apart from doing a rebuild on transmission. Am I correct?

 

[hsd]

Just to add to this discussion, tires can also create bearing type noises. My 2000 Accord had me convinced it had a bad wheel bearing, but it turned out to be a feathered tire tread.
In this case the OP has eliminated the tire noise possibility by spinning the wheels off the ground and the noise is still present.

 

[ledslinger]

It was the hub bearing. I wish I would have reused the OE CV shaft, but I had already taken it apart to inspect. Its condition was amazing for 272K miles, only minor pitting to one tulip bearing track. The boots were in great condition, and if OEM boots weren't the same price as a new Cardone shaft, I would have replaced them and reused the shaft.

In hindsight the noise not seeming to be outboard while running with the wheel off the ground caused me to replace a few parts I didn't need to. But he intermediate shaft bearing had some play, and likely not smart to reuse a CV shaft with that many miles on it.

The strut wishbone that goes to the lower control arm is known to have the bolt seize to the rubber bushing. Mine did so I had to take the inner boot band off the shaft to get clearance to pass it through.