Changing engine oil for dry clutch scooter?

[Dannyyankel94]

Hi.
I currently own a Honda 125cc scooter built specifically for my country so it's not very popular. I plan on changing the engine oil and also the gearbox oil very soon as I have hit 1000km on my odometer. However, choosing the correct oil for my scooter is unbelievably complicated. Honda recommends and sells 10W30 engine oil with JASO MB qualification for my line of scooter. The quality of Honda engine oil is horrifying as they repackage cheap oil made by some local companies and call it high quality engine oil, therefore I want to find a good oil brand for my scooter.
When I do my research, some companies said explicitly that motorcycle engine oil cannot be used interchangeably with car oil, though some argues that they are pretty much the same. Some people in my country actually does not know that an oil is for a car engine or a motorcycle one, they choose the most expensive can of oil and think that the price signifies the quality. So to be sure, i steered away from car oil, and I do not have much choices left as most Oil companies produce car oil.
Then there's the JASO MB standard. Honda demanded JASO MB engine oil to be used with my line of scooter. As I understand, MB means that the oil has very low friction, suitable for dry clutch engine since wet clutch demands some levels of friction while dry clutch does not. They also say that a MB oil will cause less friction, as a result the engine of the scooter will be very well protected.
So please clarify this problem for me. Can I use car oil for my scooter,as some companies said that scooter oils have to work in more extreme conditions and car oil isn't going to cut it? And secondly, can I use scooter oils that do not have JASO MB standard, for example JASO MA, JASO MA2 and no JASO at all?
My scooter has a dry clutch, that is for sure.
Thank you for your help.

 

[Superflan]

Hi,

which Honda scooter is that ?

I will first say keep in line with manufacturer recommandation : use 10W30 JASO MB. JASO MB is essentially friction modified oils that will keep your engine very protected.

JASO MA is mostly non-friction-modified oils, that are designed to work in engines with shared oil for gearbox, clutch, and engine lubrication. They won't be efficient for engine as JASO MB oils.

My little knowledge in oils says that you can run any 10W30, 5W30 or 0W30 car oil meeting API SL rating or ACEA A3/B4. Many even goes on 10W40 API SL oils, but I wouldn't go up in viscosity like that, for the sake of fuel efficiency.

I run 5W30 ACEA C4 level C3 in all my little engines that have no clutch or gearbox in the engine oil, with low sulfur fuel.

Is that some scooter that shares a PCX engine ?

 

[Dannyyankel94]

Hi
Yes it is. The name is Honda Air Blade 125cc. Its engine is 90% similar to that of a PCX. I live in Vietnam where the temperature is always above 35 degrees Celsius, so using the recommended 10W30 oil will be less than optimal, as I know because the oil will lose its viscosity so I tend to shift towards W40 oils which is of course less fuel efficient but my experience is that using a W30 oil in direct mid noon heat will make the engine rattle and as we vietnamese say "scream".
Are there friction modifiers in car oils too (or should I say friction reductions?), if there is then I can use most engine oils being sold on the market in my country right now. Because oil companies are very clear about using car oil for motorcycle oil, although whether it's for genuine concern for the customers or profiting purposes is beyond me.

 

[Dannyyankel94]

And one more thing, can I use Red Line Heavy shockproof gear oil for my scooter gearbox? Is Red Line a good brand? I'm not very familiar with this company and their heavy shockproof gearbox oil seems unbelievably excellent, a viscosity more than 75W250 but flows like a 75W90. If that's true than I can make a fortune importing and selling this stuff.

 

[tc1446]

You can use any auto oil; I'd recommend a good synthetic of 10-40 or 20-50 and the same
in the gear box. You don't have to use a "motorcycle" oil since you don't have a wet clutch.

 

[Superflan]

Honda spec 10W30 JASO MB oil for the trans. I'll let the others on this forum tell if it's suitable to push anything other in the final drive. I had one scooter spec'ed for 85W140 in final drive, I wouldn't put anything than 85W140 EP Geer Oil in that drive. My 2 cents.

What is this rattle thing with W30 oil? One day, I went to 15W40 mineral oil, API SL (Q8 T750 15W40) in a engine where 10W40 were the oil used before. Engine ran poorly, was noisy, lack of power, well... done 1000km with it and flushed right away. Went to 5W30 SL, no problem with it ! The engine ran on this 5W30 oil for the rest of it's life, with 15000km OCI. A conrod bearing went nuts at 100000km, but I think it was "normal" for all the high revs it went through while being turbocharged (stock was NA), 280° cams, etc.

 

[Phishin]

I know a lot about Honda scooters and have had a lot of success with long lived engines.

I currently have a Honda Ruckus (Zoomer) with 49cc carbed engine with 27k miles (45,000km). I also have an older Honda Elite 250 (Spacey) with over 50k miles (83,000km).

Since Honda doesn't use oil filters on their scooters, the most important thing is to change your oil often. It's so easy and quick to do. All my scooter friends are always having issues with valve clearances and bearing wear out. I've never had a single problem. This is the most important aspect of Honda scooter oil. Change your oil often. I change mine every 600 miles in my Ruckus, every 1000 miles on my Elite.

You do NOT need any motorcycle specific oil for your scooter engine. It's a waste of money. NOT NEEDED!!

If you plan to change your oil often, you can run any good quality 10w30 you want. I don't know what's available in Vietnam, but any name brand, well respected oil (synthetic or not) will do. If you plan to run longer on your oil changes, I'd suggest either 10w40, or a diesel oil like any 5w40 or 15w40. The thicker oil is needed because a high revving scooter engine will shear any oil quite quickly into a grade or two lower than when you started.

All my scooters (all 4 of them) all have Mobil 1 75w90 in their final drive. No problems here. You're better off with gear oil than a 30 weight. No reason to go to a 75w250. Red Line or anything synthetic 75w90 will do quite well. Change this oil every 3000-5000 miles.

Change your oil often.

 

[Dannyyankel94]

Thanka a lot phishin. I plan on getting mobil 1 extended performance or Motul 300V. I tend to overkill things but hey, using good oil cannot be harmful, at least to your engine. For my gear oil I use motul, but the product is made locally and the quality is for shat. Will I again overkill to use the heavy shockproof.? Can the red line heavy shockproof actually damage my gearbox? Because My brother has purchased 4 liters of that stuff (heavy shockproof 75W250) and it would be convenient to just use it.
We do not have much choices in Vietnam as manufacturing and selling fake engine oils, fake gearbox oils, fake everying is hugely profitable so I tend to use oils that my brother brought back after his trips abroad. Heck even Motul quality in vietnam is questionable as it is made locally.