Anyone running the Windows 10 Technical Preview?

[TxHeat]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Here's where I'm confused. If you download the trial version, and install it on a machine that had Win XP, Linux, etc. and decide to keep it you will be upgraded free once it is released?

Thanks!


Yes, I mean NO! Er, maybe?

Sorry, too flip.

I don't know, it seems Microsoft has said different things at different times.

They said that all Windows 7, windows 8 and Windows 8.1 installations would get the upgrade to Windows 10 for free.

Then they said only Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 installations would get it for free.

Then they said that was in error, that, again, all Windows 7, Windows 8 and Windows 8.1 installations would get Windows 10 for free.

Someone at Microsoft was quoted fairly early on as saying that pirated copies of Windows 8/8.1 would get a free upgrade to Windows 10 but that was pretty quickly denied. I suppose that will stand until they change their mind.

However, from the very beginning, people were warned to NOT use the Windows 10 Technical Preview as a Primary Operating System on a working home or business pc and one of the reasons, aside from it being a Technical Preview, was that it would not qualify for an upgrade to full version.

Apparently that is no longer true. According to the Forbes article that Hokiefyd linked to those installs WILL be upgraded!

IF that's true then anyone who's running XP, Vista or a pirated copy of any version of Windows, just has to do a clean install of Windows 10 Technical Preview and wait for the upgrade!

Again, I don't know what they're going to do or who they're going to upgrade and frankly, I'd be a little surprised to find out that there's anyone at Microsoft who knows!

 

[demarpaint]

Well I gave it a shot on a Dell 3100 tower running Linux Mint. I booted from the CD got Error: 0x0000005D after staring at a blue 4 pane window for a few minutes. The message said to hold the power button to reboot. I tried a few more times, no cigar. I has something to do with a Pentium 4 chip, maybe fooling with the bios will help. I might try it on another machine, but as of now I don't have the patience for it.

 

[TxHeat]

Here's the thing. I'm just not sure what Windows 10 is bringing to the table that's worth all the fuss. Except that it's FREE!

Ok, DirectX 12. That's not going to make a difference in my life, nor will it in most people's lives.

Spartan, the "new" browser. Guess they finally gave up on trying to fix Internet Explorer. I know I did and Firefox has been my default browser for years. I have NO expectation that it's going to work any better than IE.

Cortana? I REALLY don't like it. I don't want my computer interrupting everything I do to "help" me. yuck!

But, but, it's got a new Start Menu!!!! Big whoop. A feeble attempt, at best, to put it back to a Start Menu. It's ok, but it's not "All That".

And it's FREE!

But what are the upgrades "under the hood" that makes Windows 10 worth the effort? I mean for us, not for Microsoft.

What I'm seeing so far is an effort by Microsoft to show us this Shiney New Bauble that will just be so impressive we have to have it! And it's FREE!

Right now, with the StartIsBack add-in I'm quite happy with Windows 8.1 and it's supported until 2023.

Everything I'm seeing in Windows 10 seems to be to the benefit of Microsoft.

Did I mention that it's FREE!?

Lest anyone think I'm a Microsoft basher, I've been using Microsoft products since 1987, almost since there WAS a Microsoft. I expect I'll be using Microsoft products for the rest of my life, admittedly, at my age, not necessarily a very long time.

I just think I don't want to get in a rush to change my computers over to Windows 10 just because it's "free".

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: bornconfuzd
But what are the upgrades "under the hood" that makes Windows 10 worth the effort? I mean for us, not for Microsoft.


It's all relative. What is your baseline? What OS do you have now?

 

[Saleen0679]

So far I'm not impressed. Like bornconfuzd, I use Win8.1 and a third party start menu. Windows 10 brings nothing to the table that would make me want to upgrade. In fact it's even more bloated with excess baggage.

I have no use for Cortana, IE, Windows Phone support, and all the little apps.

They didn't bring back the Start Menu. They just stuffed the Start Screen into the Start Button.

I also don't appreciate that they buried the local account selection during install. I think a lot of people were 'tricked' (for lack of a better word) into creating a MS account in order to install the TP.

On the plus side like Hokiefyd I found the driver support to be improved over 8.1.

There were features I liked in 9926 that they later took out in 10041 and 100061. I hope the next build is more interesting than these last two.

 

[TxHeat]

As I said, I'm using 8.1 with StartIsBack.

I'm not so sure it is all relative. I mean, either 10 brings something to the table worth making the upgrade, or it doesn't.

8.1 isn't so old, (like XP was when Vista released), that I need to upgrade just for current technology.

Vista brought a really new UI, new security features, enhanced driver tech and really propelled us toward 64 bit computing.

Windows 7 took us even further in all those areas.

Windows 8/8.1, it turns out, is a more stable, faster and more secure O.S. than what went before. The worst problem is the UI, but I'm also not a fan of having my O.S. loaded with Microsoft Apps, (bloatware), out of the box either, all of which want to be connected all the time.

Maybe 10 offers the same advancements/enhancements as 8/8.1, I don't know, and all MS is telling us is, "Hey, Look! A squirrel"! I mean, all we hear about is the new Start Menu, the new browser, how we'll be even MORE connected than before.

I think that in previous versions of Windows, 8.1 would have been SP1. Is 10 SP2? How is it better? What does it offer that would make me say, "I need to install that"?

All I know is, I've been using the Technical Preview right along, I've tried all my old software that's important to me, and it all runs just fine! What's different?

I think I'm disillusioned after using it for a while and listening to all the "It's gonna' be free" stuff.

But I'm also bothered by the, seeming, lack of innovation, reliance on, "It's Free", and otherwise lack of information.

Ahhhh, what do I know? I'm just an old guy bumping around in the dark, doing the best I can!

 

[TxHeat]

Yes, I agree with Saleen, and it helps explain, I think, why I'm having a tough time getting on the bandwagon.

I'm sure I'll upgrade to it at some point, just not right away.

I want to know more about what Microsoft is NOT saying. What 10 offers that makes it worth the effort. What kind of surprises might be coming?

 

[TxHeat]

More BIG news on the Windows 10 front, they've changed the volume slider from vertical to horizontal!

Also, it seems that messing up the Start Menu wasn't enough, we may be losing the Control Panel!

Windows 10 build 10074

This is an article at WinBeta.org. According to this, the New Settings App is to replace Control Panel.

I suppose it will be fine...........sheesh. I mean, between Control Panel and Device Manager we had complete control of Windows.

I'm checking now to see if build 10074 is available to me yet. Will report later if I find anything new.

Anyway, that's the latest I know.

 

[Saleen0679]

Just finished installing 10074.

Volume slider is now horizontal as mentioned.

Control Panel is still fully in place, but they did add more to the Settings panel. Seems like the more common settings are being placed in Settings while 'Advanced' settings sends you to........the Control Panel.

'Sleep' option from the still ill placed Power Button is gone. Now there's only 'Shut Down' and 'Restart'

The 'Search' box doesn't show up every time you click the Start button which is nice since that was really annoying.

The Start Menu showed all the tiles in a wide view when opened initially and had to be manually re-sized.

The Spartan and IE icons are gone from the Taskbar. Spartan is still in the Start panel and there is still a directory and files for IE.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: bornconfuzd
I'm not so sure it is all relative. I mean, either 10 brings something to the table worth making the upgrade, or it doesn't.


To me, that's what relative means: you have a new product, and you have to evaluate whether it brings something to the table compared with what you already have. In other words, is it better than what I'm already using? In that light, it's relative to what OS you're using as a comparison baseline. If you already have 8.1, then 10 doesn't represent much of a performance difference. If you're running 7, however, then 10 represents a fairly sizeable performance improvement. If you have Vista, 10 will be like getting a new computer. I've found that it runs faster than XP even.

To me, the (free) upgrade to 10 is a no-brainer, even if you already have 8.1. Sure, there won't be much of a difference in the look-and-feel, but you'll continue to be on the latest version of the OS for security patches, etc, and it costs you nothing to make that move. Windows 8.1's end of mainstream support of 2018 will be here before you know it, and its end of extended support of 2023 seems far out, but do did XP's at the time, and we know there are a lot of XP machines out there still.

Like you, I've been a Microsoft user since way back. DOS 5.0 is the earliest I can remember using, with DOS Shell. I've often resisted new versions of something I thought worked just fine before, but I've changed my tune as I've observed that time always marches forward, and in the long run, there seemed to me (a home user) to be few benefits to staying with an older version. I'm certainly not saying that my way is the right way and anyone else's is the wrong way...just offering my perspective.

I don't like everything about 10. The Spartan browser is odd to me. It seems like a half-baked re-boot of Internet Explorer. They're still moving some stuff around...the Start Menu is there, in various forms. Having used it for a while now, I'm fairly certain that I'll install an aftermarket Start Menu, just as I have on my 8.1 desktop.

What excites me about 10, though, is how fast it runs on older hardware, and how accessible Microsoft has made it to everybody, and how they appear committed to continuing to do so. As of today, with the current version of Windows (8.1), wanting to upgrade to the latest version (except for the 8-to-8.1 upgrade) comes with a hefty price tag. Windows has always been expensive, and Microsoft seemed slow to change that model. I'm excited that this OS will be available to everybody for free; it gives users who can't or don't want to spend $99 on an OS another choice. I've used Mac OS X before (had an iMac for about two years) and I've used a ton of different Linux flavors before. I really wanted to like the Linux distros I tried: I have some older machines that I'd like to keep running and I thought they'd be good for older hardware.

Neither Mac OS X or Linux worked for our family as well as Windows does; that Microsoft is now aligning its pricing model with those other options (free) really pleases me. They're making the option that works best for me, free for me.

 

[TxHeat]

There's the rub. Your perspective is that it will remain free. Mine is that it will not.

The initial release is free, for the first year, as that is what they've said, "Free for 1 year after release to Windows 7 and Windows 8/8.1 users". So, it's not free to everyone, though it may work out that way if they're going to upgrade Technical Preview users. But it is my understanding that I cannot do a bare metal install with Windows 10 as I can with a Linux distro.

I also believe that at the end of the first year we're probably going to be presented with a bill for the second year, a subscription bill. As I've said before, I hope I'm wrong.

Or, they'll do what they did with Windows 8. I bought a half dozen copies of Windows 8 Pro, full version, for $39.95 when it first released. But it was only for a limited time and then the price went to @ $100.00.

In any case, Microsoft is not Linux or Apple. It's a commercial enterprise that must monetize it's products or die. HOW they do that is the question. They can do it by selling their products, or by generating advertising revenue or by subscription model, or by some combination of those choices. But, they cannot just give it away.

I believe they're going to use the subscription model with ad revenue thrown in. Why else embed Bing in your local search box? Why else all the Microsoft apps throughout Windows, some of which cannot be uninstalled or turned off?

By the way, Linux isn't free. It's supported by donations and by ad revenue. Install a Linux Distro, you'll find that you have to hunt for and add in Google Search. It's not presented as a default because Google doesn't share it's search revenue like Yahoo and a few others do.

OS X SURE isn't free, it's supported by the outrageous markup Apple maintains on it's hardware.

So, as far as relativity goes, your statement, "you have to evaluate whether it brings something to the table compared with what you already have.", is true, to a point.

But when we compare we also do it from our individual standards, preconceived notions, expectations and desires. I might say that a painting is beautiful while you find it ugly.

A surface comparison of Windows 10 to Windows 8.1 might show Windows 10 to be a much more attractive and more user friendly Operating System to you but I might find it just the opposite.

For the life of me, I STILL can't fathom why people preferred to stay with Windows XP when Vista was a much better, and better looking, OS relative to XP but tens of millions of people did just that.

Same thing happened with Windows 7 when Windows 8 released.

Windows 8/8.1 is a very good OS, maybe the best Microsoft has ever released but it got panned. It is so disliked that Microsoft just skipped 9 and went to Windows 10 to get as far away as they could. Why? People don't like the interface. Nothing to do with how well it works, they just hate the interface.

You might say they hate it relative to Windows 7. I say they just don't like it, relative to anything else.

I'm also not sure I agree that Windows 10 is a new product. It's a redesigned old product. It's Windows 8 with some changes, which was Windows 7 with some changes, etc.

What I'm saying is that I don't like the changes. That's not relative to the changes made in Windows 8, I just don't like the changes or what I perceive to be the direction Microsoft is taking for monetizing it.

I've always been eager for the "next update" or "latest release" of whatever software I was using, anxious to see what new features and benefits it would bring, sort of an eager early adopter.

I felt the same way about Windows 10 until recently.

While I'm still certain I will be a Windows 10 user, I'm now starting to think I'll hold back, at least for a while, to see what shakes out.

Like Paul Harvey used to say, I want to know, "The Rest of the Story"!

 

[Triple_Se7en]

So the new, free Windows 10 is not going to be free after one year. The biggest turn-off for me is there's nothing on "10" that I need and don't currently have.

Also, I dislike Bing Search, which is mandatory with Windows 10. Google Search is so much better.

The Spartan browser is not something I will use anyways. I've been running Firefox for several years now.

Another reason I will not download Windows 10 is because it appears I will lose my Menu Bar at the top of of the page, which lists things like File, Edit, View, History, Bookmarks, Tools, Help, Print, New Window, Downloads, Zoom, Adblock Plus Icon, Private Browsing Icon, Refresh.....etc.

That's not only a bummer, it's what definitely turned my Yes into a No.

 

[TxHeat]

So, who remembers these really irritating and useless Microsoft Windows "enhancements"?

[img:left][/img] [img:right][/img]

That's right! Microsoft Bob and Clippy the Office Assistant! Bob only lasted about a year before embarrassment forced MS to get rid of him, but Clippy lived on for years in Office.

Well last night I was thinking about this "New" Windows 10 "Assistant" Cortana when all of a sudden it hit me, "That's not new!"

A quick Google search turned these two idiot ideas up.

Then I came across an article that quickly extinguished any idea I might have had that I was the first to realize this.

The article is here; Bill Gates says Microsoft Bob will make a comeback by Dan Farber on Cnet July 15, 2013

The reason I'm finding this "Assistant" Cortana a nuisance is because it's a direct descendant of Microsoft Bob!

Oh and I mustn't leave out Rover, Windows XP's search dog, well at LEAST he did tricks if you praised him!

[img:left][/img]

 

[Hokiefyd]

I believe Microsoft's financial motive to get folks on Windows 10 is the standardization of the OS used for the sale of apps through their Windows Marketplace, or whatever their app store is called. Similar to how Apple and Google's model operates. The rumors of 10 being subscription-based have been denounced repeatedly in the past few months.

Relevant Link

Could Microsoft change course down the road? I suppose they could. I think their revenue stream is switching from selling software to selling services. Again, much more akin to Google's and Apple's model. I see their OS as simply a vehicle to those services. If you, like me, choose not to participate in the paid services, then you get a really good deal on the vehicle.

Just like the ink jet printer model. You buy the printer really cheap, and HP or Epson or Canon counts on you go buy their ink. But if you fill your own ink, or buy aftermarket ink, then you generally make out better, not participating in their model.

I won't use Cortana. I won't even use Spartan. I won't buy any apps through the Windows store. But sure, I'll take advantage of the free OS upgrade to keep my systems current (and to return my one XP machine to current).

 

[TxHeat]

I stand corrected.

However, the article also makes clear that Windows 10 will not be the beginning of a new "Free Model". It will be free for 1 year after release to Windows 7 and 8 users. Oh, and maybe some others. Or, maybe to .... well, we just don't know yet.

From the article, at the end of that first year after release, "It will no longer be a free upgrade." "Myerson said the price will likely be comparable to past versions of Windows. Windows 8 costs $120 on Amazon, for instance."

Of course, they could change their mind later and continue to make it free if, say, ad revenue and app sales made up the revenue losses from the sale of Windows.

But then, as you said, if they can change their mind on making it free they could also change their mind on charging an annual fee.

Fact is, they've been pushing for years to get folks to embrace a subscription model for Office.

Sure, you can still buy Office. But you'll pay between $100.00 and $300.00 per installation! Depending on whether you need Outlook and a couple other applications.

OR, you can subscribe to Office 365 for "only" $75.00 per year and get FIVE installations! That's the tactic they're using to force people to shift from the paid model to the subscription model.

The prices above are from Amazon.com, it's more if you buy directly from Microsoft of course.

I'm not convinced, Mr. Myerson's comments notwithstanding, that the same kind of thing won't happen with Windows.

Hey! No more keeping track of those pesky installation disks! No more having to use the same old version for years! You'll get all the new versions as soon as they're released! Whether you want them or not! But wait! There's more!

Look, I'm not saying I won't use Windows 10. I'm just saying I want to hold off for a bit and see what happens because, well, frankly, after what's happened over the last couple of years with Office and now this "Windows 10 for free" business, I just don't trust them anymore.

Like you, I've been trying Linux, the Mint flavor, for the last couple of years. It does fall short, but it's workable. I've had it as a dual boot with Windows and as the primary os on several machines.

I've also been using Thunderbird as my mail handler on both Windows and Linux and I like it. Same with Libre Office, it works well on both Windows and Linux.

I'm almost to the point of using Linux as my main OS and running Windows in a virtual machine for the few Windows applications I don't want to give up and that won't run on Linux.

While my preference is to continue using Microsoft Windows and Microsoft Office, and I'm willing to compromise to some extent to do that, at some point I'm going to make the switch.

That's why I want to hold off changing to Windows 10. As long as I still have my 8.1 installations I'm good, but once I've upgraded them that's it, I'm stuck with 10, and I've got a year plus to decide.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: bornconfuzd
However, the article also makes clear that Windows 10 will not be the beginning of a new "Free Model". It will be free for 1 year after release to Windows 7 and 8 users.


Yes, that's correct. The upgrade offer is free for the first year. After the first year, it looks like folks will have to pay to upgrade. They went the interesting additional route and announced that any Technical Previews will convert to full 10 licenses. Whether that happens or not, we'll see. I have put the Technical Preview only on my one XP machine, to "lock in" that upgrade assuming they stay true to their word. (I did test it on my 7 laptop, but only temporarily, and that was a number of builds ago.)

Like you, I will wait until after the release has been live for a while before putting it on any of my "main" computers (an 8.1 desktop, an 8.1 laptop, and a 7 laptop).

But, if they stay true to their promise, and by the end of the first year, every one of my computers will have the latest version of Windows, with support presumably out to well into the 2020s, for $0 out of pocket.

 

[TxHeat]

I agree completely.

On the XP machine, you've nothing to lose and if I had one I'd go for it too!

But waiting to upgrade the others seems a good idea and I don't see where there's any downside.

Hoping for the best!

Larry

 

[Saleen0679]

Originally Posted By: Triple_Se7en
Another reason I will not download Windows 10 is because it appears I will lose my Menu Bar at the top of of the page, which lists things like File, Edit, View, History, Bookmarks, Tools, Help, Print, New Window, Downloads, Zoom, Adblock Plus Icon, Private Browsing Icon, Refresh.....etc.

That's not only a bummer, it's what definitely turned my Yes into a No.


You don't lose any of those features with Windows 10.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Saleen0679
Originally Posted By: Triple_Se7en
Another reason I will not download Windows 10 is because it appears I will lose my Menu Bar at the top of of the page, which lists things like File, Edit, View, History, Bookmarks, Tools, Help, Print, New Window, Downloads, Zoom, Adblock Plus Icon, Private Browsing Icon, Refresh.....etc.

That's not only a bummer, it's what definitely turned my Yes into a No.


You don't lose any of those features with Windows 10.


Agreed. I like 10 and have it both at work and home.

 

[sleddriver]

Originally Posted By: bornconfuzd
There's the rub. Your perspective is that it will remain free. Mine is that it will not.

The initial release is free, for the first year, as that is what they've said, "Free for 1 year after release to Windows 7 and Windows 8/8.1 users". So, it's not free to everyone, though it may work out that way if they're going to upgrade Technical Preview users. But it is my understanding that I cannot do a bare metal install with Windows 10 as I can with a Linux distro.

At this point, it's all pure speculation. Who knows?

Quote:
Or, they'll do what they did with Windows 8. I bought a half dozen copies of Windows 8 Pro, full version, for $39.95 when it first released. But it was only for a limited time and then the price went to @ $100.00.

That was a wise move! Wish I would have acted on that. I haven't used W8 enough to know, but I've used enough OS's over my time to understand and accept that things will change and there's always a learning curve. So I adapt, learn it, and move on. Old-school computer users know this. The public hates it.

Quote:
For the life of me, I STILL can't fathom why people preferred to stay with Windows XP when Vista was a much better, and better looking, OS relative to XP but tens of millions of people did just that.

At the time, I didn't own anything compatible with it, thus I stayed with WXP. Still have and use it. Vista, from what I heard, had lots of incompatibility issues upon arrival. History has now shown many avoided it, even if they later fixed it.

With that said, WXP IS getting quite old. What really bugs me is that it won't remember how I set up folders...any folders it seems. Some folders I like 'thumbnails' displayed, other 'details'. It won't remember any changes I make. Even 45sec ago. Period. How stupid is that? It also wouldn't burn any disk without external SW. WTH??? Apple beats the daylights out of MS in this regard (and many others).

I may go back to Apple (I have two machines given to me for free that were broken and I fixed). However, I now have enough engineering and acoustical SW that I'll have to keep a Win-box, new or old, alive to continue to use it.