Mobil Delvac 1 ESP VOA 4-24-15

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Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5W-40 - VOA, from Blackstone on 4-24-15

Aluminum - 0
Chromium - 0
Iron - 0
Copper - 0
Lead - 0
Tin - 0
Molybdenum - 0
Nickel - 0
Manganese - 0
Silver - 0
Titanium - 0
Potassium - 0
Boron - 98
Silicon - 3
Sodium - 3
Calcium - 1258
Magnesium - 925
Phosphorous - 1100
Zinc - 1287
Barium - 0

SUS Viscosity at 210 *F - 73.8
cSt Viscosity at 100 *C - 13.94
Flashpoint, *F - 430
TBN - 9.4
 
Last edited:
Thanks very much for doing this - we sell ESP 0W-40 version at my store, and I've always been curious what it 'looked' like.

The main difference between it and other M1 oils is the lack of moly...I guess that is what they took out to reduce SA levels.
 
Looks like Mobil is using the same mg/ca combo across their line other than M1 0w40.
 
Thank you very much for sharing this VOA bismic1!

For this specific oil (Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5W-40) what is the likelihood of a NEGATIVE effect (beside to your wallet) by adding Liqui Moly Mos2?

1) High
2) Medium
3) Low

I realize and respect if you do not like oil additives but I am interested in the forum members that can speak with experience and knowledge on this topic. Thank you!
 
I'm curious about this as well.

Originally Posted By: SR1919
Thank you very much for sharing this VOA bismic1!

For this specific oil (Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5W-40) what is the likelihood of a NEGATIVE effect (beside to your wallet) by adding Liqui Moly Mos2?

1) High
2) Medium
3) Low

I realize and respect if you do not like oil additives but I am interested in the forum members that can speak with experience and knowledge on this topic. Thank you!
 
I wouldn't do it. Mobil uses a select type of high quality moly at a specific amount. Adding anything to this could easily upset the balanced formulation.
 
Originally Posted By: buster
I wouldn't do it. Mobil uses a select type of high quality moly at a specific amount. Adding anything to this could easily upset the balanced formulation.


Per this VOA there is no moly but I could be missing something so please correct me if I am wrong or you have additional information from other sources.
 
Originally Posted By: addyguy
I guess that is what they took out to reduce SA levels.

Interesting that the SA level for this oil is 1.0% which is actually higher than your regular garden variety M1 oils such as the 5w-30 (SA level of 0.8%).
 
Originally Posted By: SR1919
I realize and respect if you do not like oil additives but I am interested in the forum members that can speak with experience and knowledge on this topic. Thank you!

Honestly, I wouldn't add anything to it ever. There is a rather complicated chemistry in such a lube with so many builder approvals, falling within various limits of SA while maintaining a high TBN.
 
Originally Posted By: addyguy
Thanks very much for doing this - we sell ESP 0W-40 version at my store, and I've always been curious what it 'looked' like.

The main difference between it and other M1 oils is the lack of moly...I guess that is what they took out to reduce SA levels.


I believe the 0W40 Delvac 1 has a lower TBN, 7.7 I think.
http://www.mobil.ca/canada-english-lcw/h...-esp-0w40.aspx#

Charlie
 
Well, it's a good question and it is about the oil in the thread, after all. What would you be seeking by using the additive? If you're looking for fuel economy, I'd suggest there are better ways to obtain that than dosing a heavy oil. There are plenty of oils, both HDEOs and PCMOs, with lower HTHS and higher VIs if one is chasing fuel economy. There are 30 grade HDEOs for those who need them, and ILSAC rated oils for those who are able to use them.
 
Ok Garak, you make some good suggestions so I need to disclose that I am not interested in a lower HTHS as this oil would be for a specific engine requiring at least 3.5 HTHS (VW Pumpe Duse turbo diesel). Other options might be using a VW507 spec oil (for example Pennzoil Ultra Euro L) but I am not there yet.

I hear loud and clear that majot oil companies have done much R&D and their oils are 'carefully' balanced. I would say then two things:

1) Liqui Moly also has done their R&D, not necessarily 'perfect' but also I would say 'well balanced' to minimize risk of a negative interaction between their oil additives and major motor oils. The key word here is 'minimize' and not 'eliminate'. There is always a risk to some degree in doing trade-offs of various kinds.

2) There is an economic factor here also. Oil companies, on the average, cater to the lowest common denominator when it comes to what base stocks and 'goodies' they put in their motor oils so they can sell as much motor oil as possible to the masses while meeting various automobile manufacturer lubrication requirements.

I am ready to learn from all you guys and I accept that for many folks' philosophically' (as opposed to technically) an oil additive is a 'no-no'. Also I accept that for car manufacturers adding an oil additive is a 'no-no' as you will loose configuration control since most (but not all) of the oil additives out there are probably 'snake oils' and nothing else. This is similar to car companies not recommending fuel additives either.

Ok, sorry for the longer message and thanks for reading my 2 cents.


Originally Posted By: Garak
Well, it's a good question and it is about the oil in the thread, after all. What would you be seeking by using the additive? If you're looking for fuel economy, I'd suggest there are better ways to obtain that than dosing a heavy oil. There are plenty of oils, both HDEOs and PCMOs, with lower HTHS and higher VIs if one is chasing fuel economy. There are 30 grade HDEOs for those who need them, and ILSAC rated oils for those who are able to use them.
 
No, that's certainly a good answer. What, then, however, are you looking for with respect to an additive. Also, it's important to note that while all oils are built to a price, point, Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40 is a primarily PAO lubricant, whereas most competing 5w-40 HDEOs are primarily Group III.
 
Good question Garak. My primarily objective would be to be able to demonstrate at least a 1% fuel economy gain without sacrificing engine metal wear and any other negative impacts (as demonstrated by a UOA). This would have to be done via a well maintained spreadsheet on a as consistent as possible route and environment (for example daily drive to work in the same season). We are talking about approximately 50 to 100 data points corresponding to around 10 tankfuls or more. I have a previous baseline of around 93 data points already calculated (while running Schaeffer Supreme 9000 5W-40).

Also good point about Delvac 1 ESP being one of the 'Crème de la Crème' for HDEO fully synthetic oils. So maybe, after all, I will be waisting my money and time :)
 
To be honest, while a 1% fuel economy gain is plausible, I'm going to go on record saying you're going to have an extremely difficult time measuring that, since the error bar itself is more than 1%. I've done the analysis on a lot of miles, and there are just too many variables. Heck, some of my best mileage was in periods running my current Delvac 1 versus an ILSAC rated 30.
wink.gif
Obviously, driving habits have the biggest effect.

I don't think one could realistically measure - in either direction - changes in wear from the additive, either. Unfortunately, all we're going to get is anecdotal evidence, so you may as well see what others' experiences are in similar applications to your own. Plenty of people here have tried the additive, and we don't hear a lot of hate against it. Alternatively, one could ask a formulator here or someone with a lot of experience with this family of lubes, like Doug.

I'm sure there are reasons XOM didn't put moly in this lubricant. I doubt that they were cheaping out, but, then again, this product is an extremely good value in Canada if you go to Imperial Oil, where it is, perplexingly, cheaper than it is in the States.
 
Originally Posted By: m37charlie
Originally Posted By: addyguy
Thanks very much for doing this - we sell ESP 0W-40 version at my store, and I've always been curious what it 'looked' like.

The main difference between it and other M1 oils is the lack of moly...I guess that is what they took out to reduce SA levels.


I believe the 0W40 Delvac 1 has a lower TBN, 7.7 I think.
http://www.mobil.ca/canada-english-lcw/h...-esp-0w40.aspx#

Charlie


You're right, seems to be a completely different product.

ESP 0W-40 and Elite 222 0W-30 are the same, except for viscosity.
 
Yes, the two products you listed also have far fewer builder approvals. For the big list of approvals in the Delvac line (and the higher TBN), it's Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40 and Delvac 1 LE 5w-30.
 
No doubt driving habits are one of the highest variables. In any case this is more of a curiosity/academic trial as data analysis is some of my background. My drive to work is as consistent as it can get so I was thinking that is a good scenario to try and see what happens if I am patient and rely on the central limit theorem.

Besides the small cost of this product It does not seem that using Mos2 has any down effects on the engine based on my research (albeit limited).

Originally Posted By: Garak
To be honest, while a 1% fuel economy gain is plausible, I'm going to go on record saying you're going to have an extremely difficult time measuring that, since the error bar itself is more than 1%. I've done the analysis on a lot of miles, and there are just too many variables. Heck, some of my best mileage was in periods running my current Delvac 1 versus an ILSAC rated 30.
wink.gif
Obviously, driving habits have the biggest effect.

I don't think one could realistically measure - in either direction - changes in wear from the additive, either. Unfortunately, all we're going to get is anecdotal evidence, so you may as well see what others' experiences are in similar applications to your own. Plenty of people here have tried the additive, and we don't hear a lot of hate against it. Alternatively, one could ask a formulator here or someone with a lot of experience with this family of lubes, like Doug.

I'm sure there are reasons XOM didn't put moly in this lubricant. I doubt that they were cheaping out, but, then again, this product is an extremely good value in Canada if you go to Imperial Oil, where it is, perplexingly, cheaper than it is in the States.
 
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