Well there be a test on the above?
Any Reason To Change Brands?
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4.2 Deposit Control Additive Requirements. The deposit control additive used to meet the performance Standards described in 4.3 shall meet the substantially similar definition under Section 211(f) of the Clean Air Act. Also, the additive shall be certified to have met the minimum deposit control requirements established by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) in 40 CFR Part 80. Lastly, the additive shall be registered with the EPA in accordance with 40 CFR Part 79.
and:
5.1 Submission of Test Results. A fuel company desiring TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline status shall forward the test results issued by the Independent Laboratory ("Test Results") to the following address:
Jill Cummings
GM Powertrain Fuels & Lubricants
3300 General Motors Road
Bldg. 42A
Milford, MI 48380-3726
Although cutting and pasting an enitre procedural document may have padded out your post, what you've posted undermines any claims for the superiority of top-tier fuel.
In short, 4.2 tells us that the fuel need only meet the minimum additive standards established by EPA while 4.3 details how to measure the test results.
Has anyone here ever experienced a stuck valve on a cold start?
Finally, 5.1 tells us that GM controls the certification process, which seems less than confidence inspiring.
What you've posted makes the whole top-tier thing seem even more bogus.
I suspect that almost all gasoline sold in this country would qualify as top-tier for any brand willing to pay for the testing.
Deposits just aren't much of an issue for any normally operated FI engine, and no fuel can help in controlling valve deposits on a DI engine, unless the maker cheats and injects a little fuel upstream of the intake valves, as is the case with some DI implementations.
If you want to mix oils with wild abandon and think that there are no concerns asociated with doing so, it's your engine and you live in a climate where it probably won't cause any harm.
For six months out of the year here, anything that might compromise the cold performance of the engine oil is of real concern.
and:
5.1 Submission of Test Results. A fuel company desiring TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline status shall forward the test results issued by the Independent Laboratory ("Test Results") to the following address:
Jill Cummings
GM Powertrain Fuels & Lubricants
3300 General Motors Road
Bldg. 42A
Milford, MI 48380-3726
Although cutting and pasting an enitre procedural document may have padded out your post, what you've posted undermines any claims for the superiority of top-tier fuel.
In short, 4.2 tells us that the fuel need only meet the minimum additive standards established by EPA while 4.3 details how to measure the test results.
Has anyone here ever experienced a stuck valve on a cold start?
Finally, 5.1 tells us that GM controls the certification process, which seems less than confidence inspiring.
What you've posted makes the whole top-tier thing seem even more bogus.
I suspect that almost all gasoline sold in this country would qualify as top-tier for any brand willing to pay for the testing.
Deposits just aren't much of an issue for any normally operated FI engine, and no fuel can help in controlling valve deposits on a DI engine, unless the maker cheats and injects a little fuel upstream of the intake valves, as is the case with some DI implementations.
If you want to mix oils with wild abandon and think that there are no concerns asociated with doing so, it's your engine and you live in a climate where it probably won't cause any harm.
For six months out of the year here, anything that might compromise the cold performance of the engine oil is of real concern.
To the OP;
All the vehicles listed in your sig have closed loop running with nock control and 02 sensors, meaning it'll run on just fine on any gas you find.
It's only systems without feedback loops that "need" the "right" fuel..
All the vehicles listed in your sig have closed loop running with nock control and 02 sensors, meaning it'll run on just fine on any gas you find.
It's only systems without feedback loops that "need" the "right" fuel..
wemay
Site Donor 2023
fdcg37,
You misunderstand my stance and point. The comparison i made was not involving the science of the two, it was concerning someone defending their stance by saying "i've been doing this for years and have had no ill effects in doing so." It wouldn't be as if the one time you mix or not use TT, your vehicle would blow-up (another common phrase used [and that i've used in the past]). These are not excuses for doing something that may, in the long run, be less than optimal. Although experience is a strong indicator of future behavior and i understand that argument as well. There are always two sides to every argument. For instance, member Clevy has mixed and points out the vast majority of UOA's showing excellent results. Blackstone Labs has often pointed out that mixing oils does not harm a thing. It all depends on what you as a consumer want to believe... Practical, long-term experience or the lack of testing to certify and probable cold weather issues.
Again, i am not a mixer but would do so if i needed to. If your OEM recommends Top Tier, why not use it? For those folks where the OEM says nothing concerning Top Tier, do as you will. In my area, there is actually no price variance between TT and non-TT fuel....my OEM recommends it as do many others now....i use it ~75% of the time (I sometimes fuel at a Marathon station).
You misunderstand my stance and point. The comparison i made was not involving the science of the two, it was concerning someone defending their stance by saying "i've been doing this for years and have had no ill effects in doing so." It wouldn't be as if the one time you mix or not use TT, your vehicle would blow-up (another common phrase used [and that i've used in the past]). These are not excuses for doing something that may, in the long run, be less than optimal. Although experience is a strong indicator of future behavior and i understand that argument as well. There are always two sides to every argument. For instance, member Clevy has mixed and points out the vast majority of UOA's showing excellent results. Blackstone Labs has often pointed out that mixing oils does not harm a thing. It all depends on what you as a consumer want to believe... Practical, long-term experience or the lack of testing to certify and probable cold weather issues.
Again, i am not a mixer but would do so if i needed to. If your OEM recommends Top Tier, why not use it? For those folks where the OEM says nothing concerning Top Tier, do as you will. In my area, there is actually no price variance between TT and non-TT fuel....my OEM recommends it as do many others now....i use it ~75% of the time (I sometimes fuel at a Marathon station).
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I try to do 3-4 tankfulls continuously between Shell and Caltex.
Shell have V-Power, a (in their words) high density high additive premium (the supercharged 6 needs premium), Caltex have "Vortex", a PEA.
In diesel, Shell is Diesel, Caltex has a couple percent biodiesel.
My logic is that I'm getting a number of tanks of additive A, then a number of tanks of additive B...
Importantly, when using Shell, I get 4c/L off, and if I buy $20 of toilet paper, I get another 10c/L off the fuel...4 tanks on, 4 tanks off and we don't stockpile too much toilet paper
Shell have V-Power, a (in their words) high density high additive premium (the supercharged 6 needs premium), Caltex have "Vortex", a PEA.
In diesel, Shell is Diesel, Caltex has a couple percent biodiesel.
My logic is that I'm getting a number of tanks of additive A, then a number of tanks of additive B...
Importantly, when using Shell, I get 4c/L off, and if I buy $20 of toilet paper, I get another 10c/L off the fuel...4 tanks on, 4 tanks off and we don't stockpile too much toilet paper
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Originally Posted By: Shannow
I try to do 3-4 tankfulls continuously between Shell and Caltex.
Shell have V-Power, a (in their words) high density high additive premium (the supercharged 6 needs premium), Caltex have "Vortex", a PEA.
In diesel, Shell is Diesel, Caltex has a couple percent biodiesel.
My logic is that I'm getting a number of tanks of additive A, then a number of tanks of additive B...
Importantly, when using Shell, I get 4c/L off, and if I buy $20 of toilet paper, I get another 10c/L off the fuel...4 tanks on, 4 tanks off and we don't stockpile too much toilet paper
I try to vary as well. Mostly using Costco, Shell and BP. No toilet paper deals though
I try to do 3-4 tankfulls continuously between Shell and Caltex.
Shell have V-Power, a (in their words) high density high additive premium (the supercharged 6 needs premium), Caltex have "Vortex", a PEA.
In diesel, Shell is Diesel, Caltex has a couple percent biodiesel.
My logic is that I'm getting a number of tanks of additive A, then a number of tanks of additive B...
Importantly, when using Shell, I get 4c/L off, and if I buy $20 of toilet paper, I get another 10c/L off the fuel...4 tanks on, 4 tanks off and we don't stockpile too much toilet paper
I try to vary as well. Mostly using Costco, Shell and BP. No toilet paper deals though
I will be out on the fantail, smoke'em if you got'em
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Originally Posted By: Brigadier
The only thing that keeps me from burning top tier Shell/Chevron/Costco gas is E0 gas at my local Cenex. Add a dose of Lucas UCL/SI-1 mix for good measure, and my Colorado is happy.
I wish we still had E0 around here...
The only thing that keeps me from burning top tier Shell/Chevron/Costco gas is E0 gas at my local Cenex. Add a dose of Lucas UCL/SI-1 mix for good measure, and my Colorado is happy.
I wish we still had E0 around here...
Originally Posted By: Olas
To the OP;
All the vehicles listed in your sig have closed loop running with nock control and 02 sensors, meaning it'll run on just fine on any gas you find.
It's only systems without feedback loops that "need" the "right" fuel..
Thanks Olas... Excellent feedback
I'm cracking up about the toilet paper... I know there's a [censored] joke in there somewhere
To the OP;
All the vehicles listed in your sig have closed loop running with nock control and 02 sensors, meaning it'll run on just fine on any gas you find.
It's only systems without feedback loops that "need" the "right" fuel..
Thanks Olas... Excellent feedback
I'm cracking up about the toilet paper... I know there's a [censored] joke in there somewhere
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