Critic Blend 0w20

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Dallas69
There's some armchair experts on here who disagree.


I find it somewhat amusing that you are slighting the guy that designs bearings for turbines as an "armchair expert" (Shannow) in order to marginalize his opinion because it is inconvenient relative to your own.

Does the use of the term "armchair expert" also extend to those who advocate mixing based solely on anecdotes and the fact that something didn't blow up?

Shannow brings data and charts from recognized sources like the SAE to back-up why he's not a fan of mixing. Your lot bring anecdotes and insults. Bravo.

Though I'm curious as to the point of acknowledging Shannow's position with this statement:
Originally Posted By: Dallas69
With warm weather and a hot summer on the way,I think mixing is ok.
The only problem I have heard about is in very cold temperatures.
if your opinion of him is so low.....

Of course it is possible I've misconstrued the demeanour of your post, and if that is the case I certainly apologize. But at this point the above is my take away from it. Feel free to correct me if that was not your intent.

 

[Garak]

Shannow is against mixing because of data. I'm against mixing because of a phobia, probably from old wives' tales about oil in my youth. Does that make me a rocking chair expert?

 

[Dallas69]

My reply was to no one in particular.
From what I have read about mixing,my take is that the oil companies say all oils are ok to mix and I have had zero problems doing it for years.I have talked to many people who mix and guess what,no issues either.
I have read some of the data on mixing and the main reason given is severe cold weather start up issues.
I dont live in these temps so I don't think this applies to me.
If the oil companies say ok then anyone on a forum that says that they know more than the oil companies is an armchair expert.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Dallas69

From what I have read about mixing,my take is that the oil companies say all oils are ok to mix


*snip*

Originally Posted By: Dallas69
If the oil companies say ok then anyone on a forum that says that they know more than the oil companies is an armchair expert.


The oil companies say it won't cause harm and that oils are compatible.

Many of them have also said that mixing is not optimal.

Both of those are valid yet independent statements.

"OK" and "won't cause harm" are qualified by the miscibility test Shannow has discussed at length.

Not optimal can be qualified by contaminating the fully formulated and tested product with something else.

Nobody has said they know more than the oil companies. What has been said, several times, is that it is not ideal to mix oils because you don't know the performance of the end product. This is fact. And it in no way contradicts the statements the oil companies have made regarding product compatibility.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Dallas69
My reply was to no one in particular.
From what I have read about mixing,my take is that the oil companies say all oils are ok to mix and I have had zero problems doing it for years.

"Ok" is not a synonym for optimal. Miscibility standards are designed to ensure someone can top up without having to have the exact brand, product line, viscosity, and lot number on hand.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: Dallas69
My reply was to no one in particular.
From what I have read about mixing,my take is that the oil companies say all oils are ok to mix and I have had zero problems doing it for years.I have talked to many people who mix and guess what,no issues either.
I have read some of the data on mixing and the main reason given is severe cold weather start up issues.

I agree with you.
Mixing is a total none issue with the auto manufacturers and the oil companies, and this applies to extreme cold performance as well.
It's just that some members believe it's not "ideal" to do so and you're not going to change their minds.

As a point of interest, if you ask any synthetic oil formulator if mixing their oil with any companies premium conventional would improve it, I'm sure all would agree that it would; Castrol for one is on record claiming so. In which case mixing would seem to be more than "ideal".

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

Mixing is a total none issue with the auto manufacturers and the oil companies, and this applies to extreme cold performance as well.


What evidence do you base this total non issues, including the "W" performance on CATERHAM ?

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
As a point of interest, if you ask any synthetic oil formulator if mixing their oil with any companies premium conventional would improve it, I'm sure all would agree that it would; Castrol for one is on record claiming so. In which case mixing would seem to be more than "ideal".

That's certainly true, but mixing Castrol Edge with GTX doesn't do the Edge any favours, particularly with respect to wanting to extend OCIs. Remember, I don't say too much against reasoned blending. You certainly could improve some characteristics of a conventional by blending in some synthetic. I don't think anyone doubts that. But, there is more than one viewpoint in every blend.

Also, as for what the oil companies think, ask Imperial Oil what kind of mileage warranty they'll provide for a 50/50 mix of M1 and M1 EP, and ask SOPUS if they'll give you a prorated end of term payout on Quaker State blended with "something else."

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
As a point of interest, if you ask any synthetic oil formulator if mixing their oil with any companies premium conventional would improve it, I'm sure all would agree that it would; Castrol for one is on record claiming so. In which case mixing would seem to be more than "ideal".

That's certainly true, but mixing Castrol Edge with GTX doesn't do the Edge any favours, particularly with respect to wanting to extend OCIs. Remember, I don't say too much against reasoned blending. You certainly could improve some characteristics of a conventional by blending in some synthetic. I don't think anyone doubts that. But, there is more than one viewpoint in every blend.


Even if Castrol took SN GTX and SN Edge, and blended them 50:50, Castrol couldn't put it in a bottle and claim that the brew met API SN without redoing a bunch of the tests.

That's what I mean about it being a wildcard...you just don't know.

 

[Garak]

Caterham and Shannow, next time I get some Delvac 1 from Imperial Oil, I'm going to make them hunt in the warehouse to see if I can get the same lot number as what I have now.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: Garak
That's certainly true, but mixing Castrol Edge with GTX doesn't do the Edge any favours, particularly with respect to wanting to extend OCIs. Remember, I don't say too much against reasoned blending. You certainly could improve some characteristics of a conventional by blending in some synthetic. I don't think anyone doubts that. But, there is more than one viewpoint in every blend.

Mixing conventional with synthetic of the same brand will lower performance of syn oil but improve conventional.

Mixing different grades of the same synthetic brand such as M1 EP 0W20 and M1 0W40 with a ratio to get 3.3-3.4 HTHS for my S2000 will do any harm ? There is no xW30 with 3.3-3.4 HTHS available on the shelf at local stores, without mixing I have no choice other than using 10W30.

Since the weather in So Cal almost never drops below 32F(0C) during the day, cold performance/flow is not an issue. Both M1 EP 0W20 and M1 0W40 are extended OCI oil, so I can also use the mix(with different ratio) to use in my E430.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Mixing different grades of the same synthetic brand such as M1 EP 0W20 and M1 0W40 with a ratio to get 3.3-3.4 HTHS for my S2000 will do any harm ? There is no xW30 with 3.3-3.4 HTHS available on the shelf at local stores, without mixing I have no choice other than using 10W30.

That's the distinction I have always made for a well reasoned blend.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Mixing different grades of the same synthetic brand such as M1 EP 0W20 and M1 0W40 with a ratio to get 3.3-3.4 HTHS for my S2000 will do any harm ? There is no xW30 with 3.3-3.4 HTHS available on the shelf at local stores, without mixing I have no choice other than using 10W30.

That's the distinction I have always made for a well reasoned blend.

That's what I got from these discussions. As long as you stick with the same brand, EG: XOM you should be just fine. Hopefully.

 

[fredfactory]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint

That's what I got from these discussions. As long as you stick with the same brand, EG: XOM you should be just fine. Hopefully.

Should be able to mix SOPUS Pennzoil, QuakerState, with Mobil1 since they all use Infineum additives.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Mixing different grades of the same synthetic brand such as M1 EP 0W20 and M1 0W40 with a ratio to get 3.3-3.4 HTHS for my S2000 will do any harm ? There is no xW30 with 3.3-3.4 HTHS available on the shelf at local stores, without mixing I have no choice other than using 10W30.

That's the distinction I have always made for a well reasoned blend.

Me too... At one point, i was considering blending but chickened out. Who knows, living in Miami, i may try it one day.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
That's what I got from these discussions. As long as you stick with the same brand, EG: XOM you should be just fine. Hopefully.

Even then, I'd prefer to stay within the same line, and that's not even a guarantee. For example, I wouldn't worry much about mixing M1 10w-30 and 5w-30, at least at the right time of year. I'd almost have to mix that, since I don't know why I'd have M1 10w-30 on hand anyhow.

Originally Posted By: fredfactory
Should be able to mix SOPUS Pennzoil, QuakerState, with Mobil1 since they all use Infineum additives.

But Infineum doesn't market just one additive package to put in every product out there, obviously. QSGB and PYB should not, technically be the same product, and that's what Johnny told me, but it certainly could be the case.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
That's what I got from these discussions. As long as you stick with the same brand, EG: XOM you should be just fine. Hopefully.

Even then, I'd prefer to stay within the same line, and that's not even a guarantee. For example, I wouldn't worry much about mixing M1 10w-30 and 5w-30, at least at the right time of year. I'd almost have to mix that, since I don't know why I'd have M1 10w-30 on hand anyhow.

I was thinking along those lines as well, only with AFE 0W20, 0W30, and possibly 0W40. Those are the three grades I have on hand all the time.

 

[Garak]

I don't keep much of mix of grades around any longer. Most of what I have is 5w-40 and 5w-30. I tend to use orphan quarts in the lawnmower and snowblower. So, they occasionally get something very oddball or jazzy, as it were. I think the snowblower has Royal Purple 0w-40 in it and Castrol Syntec 5w-50 before that, and the mower last had MaxLife 5w-30 in it. I'm sure I have a few more orphaned quarts of Mobil Super 2000 HM 5w-30 and maybe even M1 5w-30 to use up.

As an aside, that's another reason I rarely bother with hunting for an SAE 30 or a 10w-30 for outdoor power equipment, even if it calls for it. I've always got something usable hanging around.

 

[wemay]

I used to wonder if it was safer to mix for a vehicle that only required simple SM GF-4 vs one that requires a more exotic approvals like VW or MB.

Since this topic has been dicussed so much lately, i asked my dad's opinion this evening. Now in his 80's, my father has always been mechanically inclined; cable-ship mechanic in the 50's, fishing vessel Captain and diesel mechanic etc. He advised that he's probably mixed more than not. His oci were always once a year and no car ran for less than 300k miles. Some with varnish, some spotless. Not one of those engines was ever opened up for mechanical work. Yes, i know, more anecdotes. But these experiences mean something to those who've done this for years. I don't think 'optimal' matters much to them, and so be it...

Wisdom and perspective are marvelous things.

 

[wemay]

From TOTAL Oil's website. Says pretty much what Shannow has presented from ASTM D6922. Not that any problems are assured, but that the quality is not guaranteed to be as high as the highest portion of the home blend...

http://www.lubricants.total.com/contact-et-faq/faq.html

Can I mix two different types of oil ?

'Lubricants are always optimized to meet the requirements of international classifications (API, ACEA). However, there are many ways of formulating a specific type of lubricant. Mixing two oils that have equivalent properties will not pose a problem, but final performance cannot be guaranteed. All market oils (petrol engine or diesel, mineral or synthetic) are mixable. However, a blending of two oil qualities lower the superior quality.'