20w50 5w20 blend

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I mixed 1/3 Havoline 5w20 and 2/3 Super Tech 20w50 for the April/October OCI for my bikes(see sig.). The 250 has a noisy clutch and valve train also slow to put out oil light with 20w50, the 500's sixth gear gets balky couple hundred miles after oil change with 10w40. So I'm trying this, my figuring it's in the 15w40 range. I know they make 15w40 just wanted to try this. I had the oil already. Anyone else tried this? I've been flirting with using 5w30 in them in the winter months, I ride year round, you can do that in the deep south with the glaciers receded and the beach out of eye shot so far. Global warming isn't all bad yet, LOL.
 
5w20 has friction modifiers which will not always play well with the wet clutch in shared sump systems, especially if the clutch has some wear on it. If it is marked 'ENERGY CONSERVING" on the API symbol, best to keep it out of your bike.

Next time, just get the 15w40 HDEO. It is not expensive at Wal Mart, and works well.
 
What he said above and Im not a big fan of mixing oils, unless something you were trying to obtain wasnt available and even in that case I would like same brand etc.

I understand the mixing, used to run 20/50 summer and 15/40 winter. Once before my winter change I still had 2 Valvoline MC 20/50 laying around, so picked up 2 10/40 of the same MC oil to lighten it up for the winter. I dont think its the greatest idea but sticking with the same exact brand etc Im sure I am ok.

Im still on the fence on what I am going to use in my new ride but if I decide on the same MC oil, since my new bike calls for 20/50 just about all the time above 40 degrees IF (and that is a big if) I use the same oil, I may do the same next winter, 1 quart of 10/40 in this case to almost 3 quarts of 20/50. Doubt it makes any difference what so ever, but whatever.
 
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using Redline 10-40 for long life + no breakdown with excellent cold flow would solve your issues
 
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
5w20 has friction modifiers which will not always play well with the wet clutch in shared sump systems, especially if the clutch has some wear on it. If it is marked 'ENERGY CONSERVING" on the API symbol, best to keep it out of your bike.


FRICTION MODIFIERS
Friction modifiers additives are only a small percent of the total oil product and help
the base oil do things that it otherwise could not... Additives fall into several basic
categories but Moly, Phosphors and Zinc are the most often used friction modifiers... what
ever small percent of FM employed they will not defeat a wet clutch in good working order...

ENERGY CONSERVING
Energy Conserving is not additive... its an API test that this "oil MAY result is an
overall saving of fuel in the vehicle fleet as a whole"... there is nothing new in the
oil to defeat a wet clutch... mercy!!!
 
Originally Posted By: BusyLittleShop
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
5w20 has friction modifiers which will not always play well with the wet clutch in shared sump systems, especially if the clutch has some wear on it. If it is marked 'ENERGY CONSERVING" on the API symbol, best to keep it out of your bike.


FRICTION MODIFIERS
Friction modifiers additives are only a small percent of the total oil product and help
the base oil do things that it otherwise could not... Additives fall into several basic
categories but Moly, Phosphors and Zinc are the most often used friction modifiers... what
ever small percent of FM employed they will not defeat a wet clutch in good working order...

ENERGY CONSERVING
Energy Conserving is not additive... its an API test that this "oil MAY result is an
overall saving of fuel in the vehicle fleet as a whole"... there is nothing new in the
oil to defeat a wet clutch... mercy!!!


Did I say Energy Conserving was an additive? Nope.

And if you read my post carefully I said it may cause problems in a bike with a wet clutch with some wear on it. A wet clutch with some wear on it may be in marginal condition and be apt to slip.

Read well before you respond sir.
 
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I'm running a 50/50 mix of Havoline 5w30 synthetic and Havoline 20w50 conventional right now in my old Honda GL1100. 85k miles, still on the original clutch plates; works fine. If anything, it's got more clutch drag now with the Havoline mix than it had on the Rotella 15w40 I just changed out.

i typically run Rotella in my Japanese bikes, but I had some leftover 5w30 that I can't use in my 5w20-rated Ford. That Mustang is still under warranty for another couple years and I just didn't feel like waiting to use the Havoline that long.

Next up for the Havoline cocktail: My 41k mile FJR. No drama likely to ensue.
 
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Originally Posted By: Robenstein


I said it may cause problems in a bike with a wet clutch with some wear on it. A wet clutch with some wear on it may be in marginal condition and be apt to slip.


No maybes its a fact that all motorcycle wet clutches will reach a point in their life
and start to slip ENERGY CONSERVING oil or non ENERGY CONSERVING oil... have you noticed
that no one complains about clutch slip when the bike is new??? its around the 27K to 57K
range as normal containments build up to point you may find the clutch begins to loose
its grip... this is usually discovered during WFO (Wide Fooking Open) throttle like
during a quick overtake or at a track day... in error one can blame the ENERGY CONSERVING
oil but truth be told its really the contaminants on the clutch plates...
 
Originally Posted By: BusyLittleShop
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
5w20 has friction modifiers which will not always play well with the wet clutch in shared sump systems, especially if the clutch has some wear on it. If it is marked 'ENERGY CONSERVING" on the API symbol, best to keep it out of your bike.


FRICTION MODIFIERS
Friction modifiers additives are only a small percent of the total oil product and help
the base oil do things that it otherwise could not... Additives fall into several basic
categories but Moly, Phosphors and Zinc are the most often used friction modifiers... what
ever small percent of FM employed they will not defeat a wet clutch in good working order...

ENERGY CONSERVING
Energy Conserving is not additive... its an API test that this "oil MAY result is an
overall saving of fuel in the vehicle fleet as a whole"... there is nothing new in the
oil to defeat a wet clutch... mercy!!!



Phos/zinc aren't friction modifiers and in no way resemble them or their characteristics.
 
Originally Posted By: BusyLittleShop
in error one can blame the ENERGY CONSERVING
oil but truth be told its really the contaminants on the clutch plates...


For a given worn clutch is there a difference between EC and non EC oils ?

if yes, EC oils are detrimental to clutch function.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: BusyLittleShop
in error one can blame the ENERGY CONSERVING
oil but truth be told its really the contaminants on the clutch plates...


For a given worn clutch is there a difference between EC and non EC oils ?

if yes, EC oils are detrimental to clutch function.



Well put.

Friction modifiers do a specific job and will affect clutch function. Whether it's now or down the road they will lessen friction which is not a desirable trait when choosing a lubricant that will come into contact with the clutch.

Just sayin
 
Originally Posted By: BusyLittleShop
Originally Posted By: Robenstein


I said it may cause problems in a bike with a wet clutch with some wear on it. A wet clutch with some wear on it may be in marginal condition and be apt to slip.


No maybes its a fact that all motorcycle wet clutches will reach a point in their life
and start to slip ENERGY CONSERVING oil or non ENERGY CONSERVING oil... have you noticed
that no one complains about clutch slip when the bike is new??? its around the 27K to 57K
range as normal containments build up to point you may find the clutch begins to loose
its grip... this is usually discovered during WFO (Wide Fooking Open) throttle like
during a quick overtake or at a track day... in error one can blame the ENERGY CONSERVING
oil but truth be told its really the contaminants on the clutch plates...



Well I can think of the Honda Shadows that had clutch slip issues when fairly new as an example of where you are wrong. This was due to poor design and materials (clutch springs)

You sir are almost impossible with your all or nothing belief that you can run any oil in any shared sump system and have it be okay. I realize it works for you and YOUR bike. But that does not mean it is a litmus test that makes it okay for every bike.
 
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Originally Posted By: Shannow


For a given worn clutch is there a difference between EC and non EC oils ?

if yes, EC oils are detrimental to clutch function.


A worn clutch is unserviceable because the plates are out of specification what we are
talking about is normal glazing and contaminates which is not oil related... All you have
to do is invest is some good old sweat equity to cure the problem...

Deglazing clutch plates ain't nothing new... no sir... back in the 70s
it use to be part of every savvy rider's maintenance plan... and for
some reason that all change during the 90s... why fix what you can buy
new is the what you hear now a days... but if your interested in
making your clutch bite good as new then roll up your sleeves and read
on... if not get back on the couch...

Inspect the friction plates for glazing... make sure you have plenty
of material to work with... your shop manual states clutch thickness
in thousands of an inch or mm...

First removed the contaminants with Acetone... pick a hard surface to lay
over a 600 grit black dry emery paper... rotate the clutch plate in a
circle... you're just busting the glaze... don't get carried away
remove too much material... You should end up with a friction plate
looks dull like a new one as opposed to a shinny glazed one... recheck
thickness...

gallery_3131_51_129667.jpg



Next check the pressure plates for bluing caused by localized heat...
make sure they are not warped... consult the manual for a thickness
range... now removed the contaminants with Acetone and wire wheeled
them to erased the blue and also to generally scuff up the surface...
you should end up with a dull surface free of Blue marks...

gallery_3131_51_40098.jpg
 
Originally Posted By: Robenstein

You sir are almost impossible with your all or nothing belief that you can run any oil in any shared sump system and have it be okay. I realize it works for you and YOUR bike. But that does not mean it is a litmus test that makes it okay for every bike.



My belief is based on the fact that Energy Conserving oils not only works in my bike but
also my customers bikes, like Dillons's FZ8 and Marv's ZX7R and Dave's OWO1 to name a few...
that's because you'll find the same base stocks and additives in EC oils that you'll find in
non EC oil... high mileage is the real reason a clutch starts to loose its grip not
whether the oil is EC or not...
 
Originally Posted By: BusyLittleShop
high mileage is the real reason a clutch starts to loose its grip not whether the oil is EC or not...


I'll repeat...for any given worn clutch, does an EC oil create more slip ?

If yes, the EC friction modifiers are detrimental to clutch function.

Originally Posted By: BusyLittleShop

that's because you'll find the same base stocks and additives in EC oils that you'll find in non EC oil...


Let's see what the additive manufacturers have to say...

watch the "three critical jobs" video.

https://www.lubrizol.com/MCEO/Spec-Check/Jama-Presentation-2014-FL-Asia.pdf

Comments on wet clutches, and HTHS viscosity and gear pitting for 4 Japanese bike OEMs.

You may have hit a lucky combo with M1 0W30...doesn't make it a universal recommendation.
 
Exactly....some bikes from the FACTORY have marginal clutch designs. Especially in lower power bikes such as cruisers.

You may see many of the same additives in energy conserving oil vs non energy conserving oil, but you have to take in account the WHOLE package. Additive choice and levels, base stocks, and viscosity.

If you have a marginal clutch, an EC oil may push it over the edge that allows it to start slipping. Sport bikes tend to have stronger clutches/springs to handle the power. But in a 40hp cruiser, that is often not the case. Again, I remember the problems some Honda cruisers had from pretty much the get go. I am willing to bet running an EC oil would have made them slip worse.
 
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
I am willing to bet running an EC oil would have made them slip worse.


Willing to bet??? mercy Rob!!! so your warning about EC oils is based on a hunch of what you
gleaned off the Net and not grounded in fact based on any personal experience of using an EC oil???
 
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Originally Posted By: BusyLittleShop
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
I am willing to bet running an EC oil would have made them slip worse.


Willing to bet??? mercy Rob!!! so your warning about EC oils is based on a hunch of what you
gleaned off the Net and not grounded in fact based on any personal experience of using an EC oil???


Says the guy that is always posting graphs taken off the net about oil molecule size.

It was a well known issue and it is not a hunch. If EC oils were Kosher then there would be no warning against them in manuals for motorcycles and the JASO MA as well as Allison C4 specs would have gone the way of the dodo.
 
And a serious case of chicken/egg inversion.

Glazing and bluing of steel are caused by slip ... the heat is caused by the power released into the surfaces by the instantaneous torque times the difference in speed between the plates...no slip, no heat.

Evidence ?

Removing the glaze and blue off an already worn clutch cannot make it function again if it's "wear" that caused the slip/glaze in the first place.
 
Originally Posted By: Robenstein

It was a well known issue and it is not a hunch.


That's the problem... EC oils are not well known... you never used them and what people
personally know about EC oils is amount of water they can hold in their hand versus a sea of
evidence to the contrary... EC oils can not defeat a clutch in good working order and to
warn against them based on a hunch is myth building...
 
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