How long too run a quart of MMO with 3 quarts oil?

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: jk_636
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: BuckShirley
I run it every oci , pint in warmer weather full quart in winter months


I had a friend in college who ran a quart every OCI dating back to the 1970's when he started driving. It was a tradition passed onto him from his father. He still does it till this day. I had the opportunity to change a valve cover gasket for him on a high mile Toyota when were we in college. His engine was as clean as the day it rolled off the line. Was it the MMO or luck? That's hard to tell, this was back in the days of API SD or SE oil, and by today's standards that oil was garbage.


I can absolutely relate to your friend, and I can say without a doubt it was the MMO. Outstanding stuff. I have used it in every vehicle I have ever owned, and if your were to pull the covers they would be so clean you could eat off it!!


That would describe how his high mile Toyota looked, and it didn't use a drop of oil. That was back in the days of either SD or SE engine oil. As I said before, and most will agree, those oils were garbage by today's standards.

Is it needed today for everyday use? No I don't think so, not unless you're trying to clean or fix something, before ripping it apart. Then I would use it w/o hesitation or fear, based on years of experience and actual successful use of the product. But that like this discussion is old re-hashed news.

 

[Mystic]

It seems strange to me that some people like to question MMO so much. It has been around a long time and I have never heard very much about MMO damaging engines if it was used as directed. Some people can't follow directions.

My Dad was a very good mechanic and I can remember him using MMO in one or two car engines decades ago. And I have used MMO somewhat myself.

And we have demarpaint at this website who has used MMO for about forty years. I consider demarpaint to be an excellent poster here and I think his experience with MMO must count for something. Just like if a guy had been using Mobil 1 for forty years that would have to be worthwhile experience.

As far as I know the FTC has never fined the makers of MMO. But they did fine the makers of Slick50, STP (twice) Duralube, etc.

 

[Trajan]

From the link provided.

Originally Posted By: MolaKule


1) Probably a decent fuel system cleaner,
2) and flush for adding to oil just before changing it. This is assuming of course you have evidence of, or suspect a dirty engine.

Since it has a very low viscosity, I certainly wouldn't leave it in the engine oil as it might thin it down to much, especially if your oil is already a XW20 weight oil.

When the oils were low detergent oils such as SB through SF, it might have helped.

Modern oils have such high detergency I doubt you really need to use this in concert with an engine oil.



As for fuel systems, the more modern Redline SI-1 and Techron should take care of any fuel system and upper engine area cleaning.


Well said.

 

[sw99]

I did the 20-25% sump capacity frequently in my Subaru. This was after changing the valve cover gaskets. Pretty clean but no idea how much MMO contributed unfortunately. I often did 1 quart MMO and 3 quarts of the cheapest decent oil I could find. The runs were always at least 5k.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
It seems strange to me that some people like to question MMO so much. It has been around a long time and I have never heard very much about MMO damaging engines if it was used as directed. Some people can't follow directions.

My Dad was a very good mechanic and I can remember him using MMO in one or two car engines decades ago. And I have used MMO somewhat myself.

And we have demarpaint at this website who has used MMO for about forty years. I consider demarpaint to be an excellent poster here and I think his experience with MMO must count for something. Just like if a guy had been using Mobil 1 for forty years that would have to be worthwhile experience.

As far as I know the FTC has never fined the makers of MMO. But they did fine the makers of Slick50, STP (twice) Duralube, etc.



Lack of harm is not proof of benefit. People do all kinds of things to themselves that they feel makes them live longer, keep their vision longer....etc. However, when they do eventually die, how is any of that substantiated? Of course it isn't, but the legend lives on that product X does this because Bertha lived to be 90. Wives tales and "because my dad did it" are not proof of benefit. It's a psychological rather than a practical thing coming into play here. You want to feel you are doing something "extra" and by adding a Wizard to your crankcase or fuel, despite the fact that you'll never actually have anything to allow you to compare what might have been had you NOT used the product, a benefit is claimed because that's what is believed.

Ultimately if somebody wants to do something because it makes them feel good, and it isn't harming anything, I don't see a problem with it. It is when wild claims of miracles like massive mileage gains, increased power....etc are made that I take exception. Often I think it is a testament to just how good the products we use every day are; both the mechanical and the lubricant side, that they can not only survive, but thrive on some of the things we subject them to. Like diluting a lubricant with massively heavy base oil and tackifier to "stabilize" it for example

But that's getting OT.

Yes, Frank has used MMO since dinosaurs roamed the earth. He has demonstrated that it has not caused detriment. Beyond that what we have is primarily wild speculation and supposition that because of the product's longevity that this can somehow be translated into proof of benefit. It cannot. Only actual testing through an approved body can demonstrate that and as far as I'm aware, that has never been tabled as part of the MMO claim portfolio.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: sw99
I did the 20-25% sump capacity frequently in my Subaru. This was after changing the valve cover gaskets. Pretty clean but no idea how much MMO contributed unfortunately. I often did 1 quart MMO and 3 quarts of the cheapest decent oil I could find. The runs were always at least 5k.






Did you hose that down with brake clean? It sure looks dry (and I see rust on one of the nuts). The residue around the keeper also lends itself to this observation.

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Mystic
It seems strange to me that some people like to question MMO so much. It has been around a long time and I have never heard very much about MMO damaging engines if it was used as directed. Some people can't follow directions.

My Dad was a very good mechanic and I can remember him using MMO in one or two car engines decades ago. And I have used MMO somewhat myself.

And we have demarpaint at this website who has used MMO for about forty years. I consider demarpaint to be an excellent poster here and I think his experience with MMO must count for something. Just like if a guy had been using Mobil 1 for forty years that would have to be worthwhile experience.

As far as I know the FTC has never fined the makers of MMO. But they did fine the makers of Slick50, STP (twice) Duralube, etc.



Lack of harm is not proof of benefit. People do all kinds of things to themselves that they feel makes them live longer, keep their vision longer....etc. However, when they do eventually die, how is any of that substantiated? Of course it isn't, but the legend lives on that product X does this because Bertha lived to be 90. Wives tales and "because my dad did it" are not proof of benefit. It's a psychological rather than a practical thing coming into play here. You want to feel you are doing something "extra" and by adding a Wizard to your crankcase or fuel, despite the fact that you'll never actually have anything to allow you to compare what might have been had you NOT used the product, a benefit is claimed because that's what is believed.

Ultimately if somebody wants to do something because it makes them feel good, and it isn't harming anything, I don't see a problem with it. It is when wild claims of miracles like massive mileage gains, increased power....etc are made that I take exception. Often I think it is a testament to just how good the products we use every day are; both the mechanical and the lubricant side, that they can not only survive, but thrive on some of the things we subject them to. Like diluting a lubricant with massively heavy base oil and tackifier to "stabilize" it for example

But that's getting OT.

Yes, Frank has used MMO since dinosaurs roamed the earth. He has demonstrated that it has not caused detriment. Beyond that what we have is primarily wild speculation and supposition that because of the product's longevity that this can somehow be translated into proof of benefit. It cannot. Only actual testing through an approved body can demonstrate that and as far as I'm aware, that has never been tabled as part of the MMO claim portfolio.



I agree.

 

[sw99]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Did you hose that down with brake clean? It sure looks dry (and I see rust on one of the nuts). The residue around the keeper also lends itself to this observation.


Yes. After I pulled the covers I sprayed everything off w/ brake cleaner to remove all the residual oil.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Mystic
It seems strange to me that some people like to question MMO so much. It has been around a long time and I have never heard very much about MMO damaging engines if it was used as directed. Some people can't follow directions.

My Dad was a very good mechanic and I can remember him using MMO in one or two car engines decades ago. And I have used MMO somewhat myself.

And we have demarpaint at this website who has used MMO for about forty years. I consider demarpaint to be an excellent poster here and I think his experience with MMO must count for something. Just like if a guy had been using Mobil 1 for forty years that would have to be worthwhile experience.

As far as I know the FTC has never fined the makers of MMO. But they did fine the makers of Slick50, STP (twice) Duralube, etc.



Lack of harm is not proof of benefit. People do all kinds of things to themselves that they feel makes them live longer, keep their vision longer....etc. However, when they do eventually die, how is any of that substantiated? Of course it isn't, but the legend lives on that product X does this because Bertha lived to be 90. Wives tales and "because my dad did it" are not proof of benefit. It's a psychological rather than a practical thing coming into play here. You want to feel you are doing something "extra" and by adding a Wizard to your crankcase or fuel, despite the fact that you'll never actually have anything to allow you to compare what might have been had you NOT used the product, a benefit is claimed because that's what is believed.

Ultimately if somebody wants to do something because it makes them feel good, and it isn't harming anything, I don't see a problem with it. It is when wild claims of miracles like massive mileage gains, increased power....etc are made that I take exception. Often I think it is a testament to just how good the products we use every day are; both the mechanical and the lubricant side, that they can not only survive, but thrive on some of the things we subject them to. Like diluting a lubricant with massively heavy base oil and tackifier to "stabilize" it for example

But that's getting OT.

Yes, Frank has used MMO since dinosaurs roamed the earth. He has demonstrated that it has not caused detriment. Beyond that what we have is primarily wild speculation and supposition that because of the product's longevity that this can somehow be translated into proof of benefit. It cannot. Only actual testing through an approved body can demonstrate that and as far as I'm aware, that has never been tabled as part of the MMO claim portfolio.



As usual good points Chris. Here's the rub, when you have engines ticking for years in the cases of many of my friends over the years, and they add MMO and the tick stops and doesn't come back, what do you attribute that to? Or you peek under a dirty valve cover add MMO and have a look a few months later and its cleaner, something happened. This isn't lack of harm being proof, as many have tried to put that spin on it. It's seeing and hearing is believing. There's many of us with similar experiences, so it's not just me.

Or in the case of TURK and his Kreen experience with his Saturn, is it safe to say Kreen helped?

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3429895/1/Coked_Rings_&_Oil_Burning_

It could be a coincidence, a fluke, or the product working. I guess it depends on what a person wants to believe. Obviously MMO and Kreen haters are going to call it a fluke or coincidence, the users who like the product are going to say it worked. I've had many positive experiences with the product and am satisfied that it works. I try and share those experiences. I also try and stay out of these threads, I really do. Unfortunately there's a few guys that just drag me back in......and sometimes I can't resist, or I'm looking for something to do or to kill some time. LOL

Bottom line don't use MMO, don't try it if you have a problem, it sucks. There I guess I won't be collecting any royalties from them now.

For the record I was using MMO around 10 BC, not before the dinosaurs.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: sw99
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Did you hose that down with brake clean? It sure looks dry (and I see rust on one of the nuts). The residue around the keeper also lends itself to this observation.


Yes. After I pulled the covers I sprayed everything off w/ brake cleaner to remove all the residual oil.


Would have been nice to see a shot of it before that. I see some "crustaceans" around the one head bolt

I'm not going to post the pic of my '87 302 again (which has 200,000 miles on it and is spotless on nothing but Mobil 1) but it will suffice to say that it managed to maintain factory clean without additives (just good oil).

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint


As usual good points Chris. Here's the rub, when you have engines ticking for years in the cases of many of my friends over the years, and they add MMO and the tick stops and doesn't come back, what do you attribute that to? Or you peek under a dirty valve cover add MMO and have a look a few months later and its cleaner, something happened. This isn't lack of harm being proof, as many have tried to put that spin on it. It's seeing and hearing is believing. There's many of us with similar experiences, so it's not just me.


I believe the solvent (and the fact that it thins the oil) may, in old engines, run on less than great lubricants (read: neglected) do what you've described. Dissolve some varnish. This is of course just theory, as I have no evidence of this behaviour.

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Or in the case of TURK and his Kreen experience with his Saturn, is it safe to say Kreen helped?

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3429895/1/Coked_Rings_&_Oil_Burning_

It could be a coincidence, a fluke, or the product working. I guess it depends on what a person wants to believe. Obviously MMO and Kreen haters are going to call it a fluke or coincidence, the users who like the product are going to say it worked. I've had many positive experiences with the product and am satisfied that it works. I try and share those experiences. I also try and stay out of these threads, I really do. Unfortunately there's a few guys that just drag me back in......and sometimes I can't resist, or I'm looking for something to do or to kill some time. LOL

Bottom line don't use MMO, don't try it if you have a problem, it sucks. There I guess I won't be collecting any royalties from them now.

For the record I was using MMO around 10 BC, not before the dinosaurs.

No hate from me here. TURK has a problem-prone engine; an engine that is known to have a ring land coking problem. Given that he's put in a solvent, and the logic being that the solvent may eat the coking, dislodging the rings and reducing the consumption, I think the theory at least makes sense. Now of course I recall we've had Saturn owners try this before without the positive results so perhaps it depends on the state of the build-up

Regardless, we really don't have any verifiable data on the performance; before and after tear-downs so to speak, just some (in some instances compelling) anecdotes. When you are in a situation of having nothing to lose because you have a real problem, trying something that MIGHT help certainly seems like a good idea. I get that.

That said, what if you don't have a problem that you are trying to solve? If you don't have a neglected engine? What's the purpose of putting in a solvent and thin pale oil in an engine that by any metric doesn't need it? This is where I question the logic of the maintenance dose and my biggest gripe regarding the unsubstantiated anecdotes. If you are running a top-tier synthetic in an engine that has no problems, what is being accomplished by running a cleaner (solvent) in it? It's the same in my mind as running Lucas. What part of a properly formulated engine oil needs "stabilizing"? And what does a tackifier and insanely heavy group I or Group II base oil do to facilitate that? LOL!

That's where the wild claims I often see made come from. People claiming benefit, but over what? Since there wasn't a problem in the first place. Or people being advised to run Seafoam or MMO in an engine because it has X number of miles on it (despite running fine) for example. Often the argument being "I've run it for years without a problem" and some mention that it "really cleans" often backed with absolutely nothing

Nothing is ever qualified. Sure, if you have an actual neglect-related issue, why not try something before tearing into it but for somebody with an engine that is healthy, why? This is where that "feel good" part of my post comes into play here. Feeling that you are doing something, some sort of "extra maintenance", a process that is by and large backed by the psychological rather than the factual

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL


That said, what if you don't have a problem that you are trying to solve? If you don't have a neglected engine? What's the purpose of putting in a solvent and thin pale oil in an engine that by any metric doesn't need it? This is where I question the logic of the maintenance dose and my biggest gripe regarding the unsubstantiated anecdotes. If you are running a top-tier synthetic in an engine that has no problems, what is being accomplished by running a cleaner (solvent) in it? It's the same in my mind as running Lucas. What part of a properly formulated engine oil needs "stabilizing"? And what does a tackifier and insanely heavy group I or Group II base oil do to facilitate that? LOL! wink



We agree. There is no benefit in fixing something that isn't broken, ZERO. The person who buys a car new, and takes care of it should hopefully have no need for any of this stuff.

As far as Lucas, it got a few dealerships I worked at out of a pickle a few times. True story: Stupid manager takes trade with knocking engine because he looked at the car but didn't run it. That's about as dumb as it gets. The lot boy drives it to the shop, to prep the car for the line. Shop calls and says the engine has a knock. Stupid manager tells them to add Lucas wash the car and he'll wholesale it. Wholesaler gets screwed. Lucas did the trick, other than that I see no use for the product at all, gear oil might have done the same thing.

My beef is this, and it's not with you. Why are there people who insist the product won't free up a sticking lifter, coked up rings, or do cleaning of a dirty engine, when there are literally thousands if not millions of people who have done it successfully? Are they all liars? Years ago I posted a compression improvement on a 250 Chevy I6 boat engine after a dose of MMO in the oil.

As I get older I learned to work smarter. If I have a lifter ticking in one of my vehicles, or lousy compression, I'm reaching for my favorite snake oil first, before I spend countless hours and a lot of money knowing that my favorite snake oil has worked before. Worst case is I'm out $5 and have to tear into an engine apart. Best case is it works, I post about it, and rile up some members. LOL

Like I said before we agree!