QSUD vs. PP: Latest info?

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Seeking advice from oil gurus, especially SOPUS fans.

I've got PP 5w-20 in my Saturn, which specs 5w-30. I went with thinner oil for winter and for once I guessed right---but I don't want to leave 20-weight in this engine much longer with hot weather coming, so I plan to change it out in May, even though it will only be about 5 months/4K miles.

I've run M-1 HM with good results, but I am happy with PP and plan to stick with SOPUS, barring an insane deal. So, how different is QSUD from PP? I've researched this and seen conflicting info. AAP has a good deal on QSUD for a few more days, which tempts me. But how much if anything do you lose going from PP to QSUD? Same company---kinda sorta.

Anyone know the latest on this? Thanks.
 
According to everything I have found, PP gets the GTL base stock while QSUD has traditional hydrocracked group III mineral oil.

Otherwise the add packs look very similar, but the PP gets the cleaner base oil.
 
Originally Posted By: BikeWhisperer
According to everything I have found, PP gets the GTL base stock while QSUD has traditional hydrocracked group III mineral oil.

Otherwise the add packs look very similar, but the PP gets the cleaner base oil.


Thanks. I have read something similar before. My problem is I am not the greatest at deciphering spec sheets. Whoever develops a more user-friendly format for words-centric car buffs who want to learn about oil....great end to your sig, btw. I walked out of the last WM I visited with no oil in hand. Just not worth it.
 
Both are excellent oils, both will keep your vehicle running for a very long time. So you'll be fine with whichever one you go with.

There's a $5 coupon for PP on the Pennzoil website. Check it out.
 
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
I find that qsud does not clean as well as the PP that is my professional opinion.


crackmeup2.gif
 
He is a mechanic and has his own shop.. I think he can speak to what he actually looks at in tearing down motors. Real world assessments are worthy of paying attention to.
There are a number of factors that go into how a motor looks like after years of running. But I think a mechanic is quite well aware of that more than a whole lot of people out there
smile.gif
 
I do not believe QSUD cleans well- either that or it does not hold the contaminants in suspension. I have it in a high mileage 3.5L Oldsmobile (based on northstar engine) and it still looks fairly clean with over 5,000 miles and a quart of MMO in it. Also on the second OCI in my truck with QSUD, about 6,500mi into this one and the oil is still fairly transparent. To be fair, the last OCI on the truck was at 8,500mi (12% IOLM) and it came out pretty black despite staying clean looking up until about 8,000 miles.

So, based on the dipstick appearance it doesn't LOOK to clean very much of anything, but I have not done any further investigation than that and would LOVE to hear counter arguments or thoughts!

All that said, both engines are smooth and quiet on the QSUD. The truck is actually quieter now than when I was running MC 5w20 blend.
 
Joe has the most interesting posts.. He makes me laugh he likes to knock people when he does not understand something but im good with it. I like to laugh too and think special people rock! Thank you Joe..

Actually i did not see this tearing down motors i saw this on my Moms Mercury Grand Marquis the motor was spotless on Motorcraft 5w20 until about 20,000 miles then i started to use QSUD and it ran great like always but after around 18,000 additional miles i started to see a little varnish so i switched to PP and she now has 58,000 miles and the varnish is almost gone. This is on one car but i am keeping an eye on it. I always used motorcraft filters and oil was always changed at 6 months or 5000 miles like clockwork. The PP did not stay as clean as the QSUD either.
 
Yeah that makes sense.. Interesting deal with my lady's Camry. A 98 with only 67,000 miles.. Oil in it had just been changed when we got it.. And after staying clean for first 1500 miles it got a lot of color and dirty really quick after that point. I changed it at 3400 miles with Havoline. Now after 3500 miles it still looks pretty decent and far better than last time. I'm guessing the car being driven more regularly and up to running temp a lot longer basically cleaned out the motor a bit.
I think that makes sense but of course I am not 100% on that hypothesis.
 
Originally Posted By: bbhero
He is a mechanic and has his own shop.. I think he can speak to what he actually looks at in tearing down motors. Real world assessments are worthy of paying attention to.
There are a number of factors that go into how a motor looks like after years of running. But I think a mechanic is quite well aware of that more than a whole lot of people out there
smile.gif



Crazyoildude.... What is the name of your shop? And where is it?
 
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
I find that qsud does not clean as well as the PP that is my professional opinion.


I believe this. I bought a bunch of QSUD on sale and used it in my old C5 corvette. looking through the fill hole i think more varnish developed using the QSUD than when i bought it. this was over the course of ~20k miles and 4 OCI's.

Engine always ran well and fairly quiet, but im not convinced that QSUD is the worlds best cleaning oil. I do also believe that being the best cleaning oil doesn't mean it is the best at controlling wear. QSUD is not a bad oil for the money, but i think other oils that get a worse rap on this forum clean and perform better than QSUD

Also OP comparing the VOA charts of and oil really doesn't tell you how well and oil actually performs. for example some believe that high moly oils are the quietest running, however the quietest oil i've used in both my Armada and Silverado has been Valvoline Synpower which has no moly and gets made fun of for being a sodium/calcium based add pack. My point is picking and oil based on VOA's or add pack type isn't fool proof.
 
Originally Posted By: BikeWhisperer
Originally Posted By: GemStater
Going from recent PQIA tests, it appears the two oils are very similar. In fact, I'd be inclined to believe QSUD is using Shell's Gas-To-Liquid base oil as well.

http://www.pqiamerica.com/June 2014/pennzplatinum.htm

http://www.pqiamerica.com/March2013PCMO/quakerstatesyn.htm


That PQIA is from before PP and PU started using GTL, and according to the BITOG O&A under "Other Shell Products" they say it is exclusive to PP and PU...for now.


Seems to me I heard or read somewhere that Shell started using GTL in products without mention sometime around 2011. I'd have to do some digging.
 
QSUD may not clean as well, but it is without any doubt the quietest oil I have ever run in my wife's 2011 Hyundia Santa Fe V6. I have used 5W20 versions of Mobil 1, Mobil 1 EP, PP and PYB Ultra and QSUD is very quiet. For whatever reason, all the Mobil 1 oils make this engine sound loud at startup and at idle... With QSUD the engine is very quiet on startup and during idle. Weird. LOL...
 
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Originally Posted By: GemStater
Originally Posted By: BikeWhisperer
Originally Posted By: GemStater
Going from recent PQIA tests, it appears the two oils are very similar. In fact, I'd be inclined to believe QSUD is using Shell's Gas-To-Liquid base oil as well.

http://www.pqiamerica.com/June 2014/pennzplatinum.htm

http://www.pqiamerica.com/March2013PCMO/quakerstatesyn.htm


That PQIA is from before PP and PU started using GTL, and according to the BITOG O&A under "Other Shell Products" they say it is exclusive to PP and PU...for now.


Seems to me I heard or read somewhere that Shell started using GTL in products without mention sometime around 2011. I'd have to do some digging.


Okay, this could be why the 2011 number came to mind -> "The Pearl plant is expected to begin making and shipping base stocks as early as August 2011." - LINK

Of course the first shipments of base oil is a ways off from a finished product.

So QSUD is traditional XHVI and the new PP is GTL. I thought there would be a slightly larger spread between some of the numbers, e.g.,

Product-----------------------------------PP(GTL)[8-2014]--------------PP(XHVI)[1-2013]----------------QSUD(XHVI)[1-2013]

Noack Volatility (ASTM D5800)---------------------9.10----------------------------9.3---------------------------8.8

CCS Viscosity (ASTM D5293)----------------------4080---------------------------4154--------------------------4184

Viscosity Index (ASTM D2270)---------------------171----------------------------171---------------------------172

API SN-----------------------------------------Yes----------------------------Yes---------------------------Yes

ILSAC GF-5-------------------------------------Yes----------------------------Yes---------------------------Yes

PP(XHVI)[1-2013] Cited: http://www.pqiamerica.com/March2013PCMO/pennzoilplt.htm
 
Originally Posted By: GemStater
Originally Posted By: BikeWhisperer
Originally Posted By: GemStater
Going from recent PQIA tests, it appears the two oils are very similar. In fact, I'd be inclined to believe QSUD is using Shell's Gas-To-Liquid base oil as well.

http://www.pqiamerica.com/June 2014/pennzplatinum.htm

http://www.pqiamerica.com/March2013PCMO/quakerstatesyn.htm


That PQIA is from before PP and PU started using GTL, and according to the BITOG O&A under "Other Shell Products" they say it is exclusive to PP and PU...for now.


Seems to me I heard or read somewhere that Shell started using GTL in products without mention sometime around 2011. I'd have to do some digging.


Again refer back to the Pennzoil Q&A where they state 2013 for PP and PU
 
Originally Posted By: BikeWhisperer
Originally Posted By: GemStater
Originally Posted By: BikeWhisperer
Originally Posted By: GemStater
Going from recent PQIA tests, it appears the two oils are very similar. In fact, I'd be inclined to believe QSUD is using Shell's Gas-To-Liquid base oil as well.

http://www.pqiamerica.com/June 2014/pennzplatinum.htm

http://www.pqiamerica.com/March2013PCMO/quakerstatesyn.htm


That PQIA is from before PP and PU started using GTL, and according to the BITOG O&A under "Other Shell Products" they say it is exclusive to PP and PU...for now.


Seems to me I heard or read somewhere that Shell started using GTL in products without mention sometime around 2011. I'd have to do some digging.


Again refer back to the Pennzoil Q&A where they state 2013 for PP and PU


I don't disagree with you. I see what you're saying.

What I was referring to is when you look at CCS and NOACK, the old Pennzoil Platinum formula made with traditional XHVI base oil compared to the new Pennzoil Platinum formula made with GTL base oil, there's not a big difference, at all. Also, Quaker State Ultimate Durability is nearly identical to the old formula Pennzoil Platinum.

It just makes me wonder what the big advantage is with GTL if any?

Marketing hype to support a formula change to GTL?

I'm using PP GTL right now. Not against it. Just makes me wonder.
 
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