Acetone and ATF

[SilverSurfer]

From a motorcycle mailing list I am on....
...........
It looks like the original article was in the April/May 2007 issue of
Machinists Workshop.

Quote:
Machinist's Workshop magazine actually tested penetrants for break out
torque on rusted nuts. Significant results! They are below, as forwarded
by an ex-student and professional machinist, Bud Baker.
Don't forget the April 2007 "Machinist's Workshop" magazine comparison
test.

*They arranged a subjective test of all the popular penetrants with
the control being the torque required to remove the nut from a
"scientifically rusted" environment.


*Penetrating oil ..... Average load*

None ..................... 516 pounds
WD-40 .................. 238 pounds
PB Blaster ............. 214 pounds
Liquid Wrench ..... 127 pounds
Kano Kroil ............ 106 pounds
ATF-Acetone mix....53 pounds

*The ATF-Acetone mix was a "home brew" mix of 50 - 50 automatic
transmission
fluid and acetone.*
*Note the "home brew" was better than any commercial product in this one
particular test. Our local machinist group mixed up a batch and we all now
use it with equally good results. Note also that "Liquid Wrench" is about
as good as "Kroil" for about 20% of the price.
The results have been widely quoted on the internet, but the picture in
the magazine allegedly shows power steering fluid and not ATF, and
according to lbender (who claims to be the author) in this thread, it
actually was power steering fluid (mixed with acetone) that they tested
with. Lbender begins participating in the thread on its second page.

SOURCE: http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=31170

 

[05LGTLtd]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: ironman_gq
The point of the acetone is to wick into tight spaces and take some lubricant with it, the acetone will flash out but leave the lubricant behind. Some lube is always better than no lube.


A little secret, the ATF is providing two things: some lubrication and phosphorus. It's the phosphorus that attacks the rust scale.

ironman is correct; the acetone or MEK thins out the ATF and allows the phosphorus to wick into the rust scale.


So would MMO/Acetone mix perform pretty good too? MMO has a decent shot of phosphorus, right? I'd think you would need less acetone in the ratio, as MMO starts out thinner to begin with. Thoughts?

 

[Da Game]

That a interesting question... Does MMO contain phosphorus and to what percentage? What would be the advantage or PS fluid over ATF?

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: Da Game
That a interesting question... Does MMO contain phosphorus and to what percentage?


MMO Analysis

Quote:
What would be the advantage or PS fluid over ATF?


None.

 

[Pontual]

Originally Posted By: mjoekingz28
Will this mixture last once it is mixed OR is it a use as/when needed?


If you want it to last, you are better served with any other commercial produt listed. The OP mix is Good for rusted screws and nuts, if you're in a hurry, not as a micro-lubricant.

 

[05LGTLtd]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: Da Game
That a interesting question... Does MMO contain phosphorus and to what percentage?


MMO Analysis

Quote:
What would be the advantage or PS fluid over ATF?


None.



This post led me to think there was more phosphorus in MMO than your sample:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/2405069/Re:_VOA_MMO?#Post2405069

 

[chevrofreak]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: ironman_gq
The point of the acetone is to wick into tight spaces and take some lubricant with it, the acetone will flash out but leave the lubricant behind. Some lube is always better than no lube.


A little secret, the ATF is providing two things: some lubrication and phosphorus. It's the phosphorus that attacks the rust scale.

ironman is correct; the acetone or MEK thins out the ATF and allows the phosphorus to wick into the rust scale.


Would BP Turbo 2380 work better than ATF, since it is a thin ester and has tons of phosphorous?

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Used this on some stuck transmission mount bolts that absolutely would not come out - steel in aluminum. A week of soaking and they came right out!

It bubbles when it hits rust, really interesting. Was using it on some rusty old U Bolts Sunday and they were hot (rust) and when I'd hit the nut with it, it would start foaming. Really neat.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: 05LGTLtd
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: Da Game
That a interesting question... Does MMO contain phosphorus and to what percentage?


MMO Analysis

Quote:
What would be the advantage or PS fluid over ATF?


None.



This post led me to think there was more phosphorus in MMO than your sample:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/2405069/Re:_VOA_MMO?#Post2405069


Yes, and that listing that certain people keep posting has no definitive source, nor can it be verified, nor is it factual.

This analysis was done at a University Lab as explained in the post.

 

[Da Game]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: 05LGTLtd
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: Da Game
That a interesting question... Does MMO contain phosphorus and to what percentage?


MMO Analysis

Quote:
What would be the advantage or PS fluid over ATF?


None.



This post led me to think there was more phosphorus in MMO than your sample:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/2405069/Re:_VOA_MMO?#Post2405069


Yes, and that listing that certain people keep posting has no definitive source, nor can it be verified, nor is it factual.

This analysis was done at a University Lab as explained in the post.



Thanks for the lesson. I had no idea that "Phosphorus" played a part in dissolving rust.

 

[stchman]

Originally Posted By: mjoekingz28
Would using nail polish remover be ok? I can check the hardware store, i cant use more than four ounces.

Also, would be splitting this 50/50 with ATF+4 in an old Kroil can.


From what I have read, commercial nail polish remover contains ~60% acetone. Get the stuff not made for using on girls fingers and toes.

 

[andyd]

wabbout diesel and ATF. Fuel oil creeps

 

[greasegunn]

When this recipe was first made there where not that many different types of ATF where there? Now there seems to be a lot more and different ATFs. Is there a preferred ATF to use in this recipe?

 

[MolaKule]

One with the lowest viscosity.

LC20, or FPPLUS and LV ATF work well.

 

[Crashbox]

I have some modified Ed's Red for cleaning firearms which substitutes MEK for acetone and John Deere Low-Viscosity ATF in place of regular ATF, along with about 10-20% or so of LC20 added. Maybe I'll omit the mineral spirits and kerosene since they are molecularly "bulkier" and try a batch on some ornery parts.