Thing sounds like a top fuel funny car when it's idling...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CQLpByAbns
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CQLpByAbns
Rare Bear
- Thread starter grampi
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Sounds like any Radial engine. Aircraft have short, essentially open exhaust (which you could not run on the street with any engine) and manual (pilot operated) mixture control.
On your example in the video he's running full rich fuel mixture; a pilot will only lean the mixture when he's climbed to cruise altitude. A racer like the example would probably run slightly rich the entire flight, as too much fuel helps with cooling.
Cerebration or fuel injection on aircraft are optimized for cruise RPM (around 1800). Radial engines are often named for displacement in cubic inches, and can be more than 100 cu in per cylinder. One of the most popular P+W radials is the 1340 series (1344 in2) = 150 in2/cylinder. So poor atomization at idle also plays a role.
This particular aircraft uses a P+W Double Wasp; two-rows of 9 cylinders (total 18) displacing 2800 in2
So, open exhaust and quite a bit too much fuel, combined with the radial's natural somewhat irregular misfiring idle.
The smoke when a radial starts up is because oil leaks past the rings and valves on shutdown, partly filling the bottom cylinders with what amounts to an oil + fuel mixture.
Most radials to my ears sound like a small group of idling Harley-Davidson twins, which is no surprise since the 45-degree air-cooled V-Twin is derived from radial engines.
On your example in the video he's running full rich fuel mixture; a pilot will only lean the mixture when he's climbed to cruise altitude. A racer like the example would probably run slightly rich the entire flight, as too much fuel helps with cooling.
Cerebration or fuel injection on aircraft are optimized for cruise RPM (around 1800). Radial engines are often named for displacement in cubic inches, and can be more than 100 cu in per cylinder. One of the most popular P+W radials is the 1340 series (1344 in2) = 150 in2/cylinder. So poor atomization at idle also plays a role.
This particular aircraft uses a P+W Double Wasp; two-rows of 9 cylinders (total 18) displacing 2800 in2
So, open exhaust and quite a bit too much fuel, combined with the radial's natural somewhat irregular misfiring idle.
The smoke when a radial starts up is because oil leaks past the rings and valves on shutdown, partly filling the bottom cylinders with what amounts to an oil + fuel mixture.
Most radials to my ears sound like a small group of idling Harley-Davidson twins, which is no surprise since the 45-degree air-cooled V-Twin is derived from radial engines.
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The F8F Bearcat was originally equipped with a P&W R2800 engine. Rare Bear uses a modified Wright R3350 from a Lockheed Constellation producing somewhere around 4200hp. I've seen the airplane personally and a good friend of mine was one of the mechanics that maintains it.
Sad that the Super Corsair went down a few years back, with that PW Wasp Major R4360 she was all business
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19s72zlwD-Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19s72zlwD-Y
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Anyone remember the sound it made with the three bladed prop? Think they were cut down P-3 Orion blades.
Isn't Dreadnaugt a 4360 powered Seafury?
Isn't Dreadnaugt a 4360 powered Seafury?
It sounds more or less like most other Wright 3350s. They have a more "choppy" and ratty idle than some other radials, but all radials sound a lot like that because unless you're standing DIRECTLY behind the airplane, you sorta only hear half the engine at once. Rare Bear used to have a unique 2-into-1 set of exhaust pipes (under Lyle Shelton's ownership) that gave it an even more unusual sound, but the current exhaust system as heard in that video is all individual pipes, a lot like what people use whey they put a 3350 on a Hawker Sea Fury. If you ask me, the most raunchy radial idle of all is the R-2600 in a B-25. About 6 cylinders have a common exhaust manifold and single pipe, the other 7 cylinders each have a stub exhaust stack. It just sounds flat WRONG.
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Sad that the Super Corsair went down a few years back, with that PW Wasp Major 4360 she was all business thumbsup
'Dreadnought' also has a P&W 4360, is faster than the Super Corsair was, and still races every year (I think they've missed one or two years total since 1983 or so). It may still be the most money-winning aircraft in Reno history- only took the championship twice, but finished second or third a TON of times. The story is that Frank Sanders was providing air-to-air support for the Super Corsair in one of his stock Centaurus-powered Sea Furies during the Super Corsair's development. During a test, the Corsair flat walked away from him, and he thought (direct quote) ‘If that big, draggy piece of s--- will do that, think what a new, cleaner airframe like a Sea Fury would do!' and so Dreadnought was born.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKR7ZoXmVww
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Sad that the Super Corsair went down a few years back, with that PW Wasp Major 4360 she was all business thumbsup
'Dreadnought' also has a P&W 4360, is faster than the Super Corsair was, and still races every year (I think they've missed one or two years total since 1983 or so). It may still be the most money-winning aircraft in Reno history- only took the championship twice, but finished second or third a TON of times. The story is that Frank Sanders was providing air-to-air support for the Super Corsair in one of his stock Centaurus-powered Sea Furies during the Super Corsair's development. During a test, the Corsair flat walked away from him, and he thought (direct quote) ‘If that big, draggy piece of s--- will do that, think what a new, cleaner airframe like a Sea Fury would do!' and so Dreadnought was born.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKR7ZoXmVww
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A bit OT: If traveling thru or to CT take a trip to the New England Air Museum. They have a quite a collection of aircraft engines on display
http://neam.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1131
http://neam.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1131
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Love that museum. Grew up in Bloomfield, next town over...
There are lots of great airplanes in it, and a few surprises.
The F-4U is the CT State Airplane, so says the plaque by the F-4U.
The F-14B is painted in VF-143 "Pukin' Dogs" colors and has a good friend's name on the canopy rail:Steve Koehler (who just selected for Admiral).
There are lots of great airplanes in it, and a few surprises.
The F-4U is the CT State Airplane, so says the plaque by the F-4U.
The F-14B is painted in VF-143 "Pukin' Dogs" colors and has a good friend's name on the canopy rail:Steve Koehler (who just selected for Admiral).
Notice the steam coming off the tail of Rare Bear. It's the boil-off oil cooler. An idea thought up by the Germans for the Me-209 record before WWII and further developed by Pete Law for the unlimited racers.
I saw the Rare Bear during the Reno Air races many years ago. Just a magnificent aircraft. Ed
Speaking of the Rare Bear, E-Flite just released their 100 Mph electric RC replica of the Rare Bear.
http://www.e-fliterc.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=EFL1250#home
http://www.e-fliterc.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=EFL1250#home
Beautiful shot there with the engine cowling removed.
The engineering and fitment of that engine is a thing of beauty for sure.
The engineering and fitment of that engine is a thing of beauty for sure.
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Notice the steam coming off the tail of Rare Bear. It's the boil-off oil cooler. An idea thought up by the Germans for the Me-209 record before WWII and further developed by Pete Law for the unlimited racers.
I was wondering what that was, thanks for pointing it out.
Notice the steam coming off the tail of Rare Bear. It's the boil-off oil cooler. An idea thought up by the Germans for the Me-209 record before WWII and further developed by Pete Law for the unlimited racers.
I was wondering what that was, thanks for pointing it out.
Here's an interesting short article on air racer tuning.
http://www.airspacemag.com/flight-today/how-reno-racers-keep-their-cool-16828199/
Another article with details on boil off oil coolers
http://www.enginehistory.org/Reno/Reno2011/Reno2011Pub.shtml
http://www.airspacemag.com/flight-today/how-reno-racers-keep-their-cool-16828199/
Another article with details on boil off oil coolers
http://www.enginehistory.org/Reno/Reno2011/Reno2011Pub.shtml
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Notice the steam coming off the tail of Rare Bear. It's the boil-off oil cooler. An idea thought up by the Germans for the Me-209 record before WWII and further developed by Pete Law for the unlimited racers.
"232" also uses a boil-off cooler, and that installation seems less persnickety than the one on the Bearcat. Sure hope 232 comes back and races again next year, I heard that Rod Lewis sold her in the off season. Also the Bearcat gained a lot less (some people argue that it was actually a negative change) by sealing up the oil cooler inlets at the wing roots. The Sea Fury oil coolers are located in a place where closing them off is a definite drag reduction.
232's boil-off exhaust port is the black circle above the 'Rescue' arrow, behind and above the wing trailing edge:
Notice the steam coming off the tail of Rare Bear. It's the boil-off oil cooler. An idea thought up by the Germans for the Me-209 record before WWII and further developed by Pete Law for the unlimited racers.
"232" also uses a boil-off cooler, and that installation seems less persnickety than the one on the Bearcat. Sure hope 232 comes back and races again next year, I heard that Rod Lewis sold her in the off season. Also the Bearcat gained a lot less (some people argue that it was actually a negative change) by sealing up the oil cooler inlets at the wing roots. The Sea Fury oil coolers are located in a place where closing them off is a definite drag reduction.
232's boil-off exhaust port is the black circle above the 'Rescue' arrow, behind and above the wing trailing edge:
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