Fram Orange Can - Is it Ok?
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Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
^^^ There are probably more oil filters in the world that have non-metal end caps then ones that do...
I would take that bet in a heart beat. A quick study may reveal that the majority of filters utilize metal end caps.
-Wix (and all their rebadged filters)
-Purolator ('')
-Baldwin/Hastings ('')
-Pretty much everyone except Fram and Chinese jobber filters.
I know thats hard to believe when some people dont realize that there are more filter choices than Fram out there (oh and BTW, IIRC the Ultra uses metal end caps as well)!!
^^^ There are probably more oil filters in the world that have non-metal end caps then ones that do...
I would take that bet in a heart beat. A quick study may reveal that the majority of filters utilize metal end caps.
-Wix (and all their rebadged filters)
-Purolator ('')
-Baldwin/Hastings ('')
-Pretty much everyone except Fram and Chinese jobber filters.
I know thats hard to believe when some people dont realize that there are more filter choices than Fram out there (oh and BTW, IIRC the Ultra uses metal end caps as well)!!
^^^ Ummm ... Honda and other OEM filters have fiber end caps. And Toyota Denso have none. There are plenty more out there. And Fram probably sells more filters and makes more OEM filters than all the others combined. Just sayin'.
Present to me the burden of proof! Just because Fram uses them (who also happens to make many different OEM filters) doesn't make them the most prevelant.
I need to see some statistics to back that up. I highly doubt that Fram sells more filters worldwide than all other manufacturers combined.
I need to see some statistics to back that up. I highly doubt that Fram sells more filters worldwide than all other manufacturers combined.
Nick1994
$100 site donor 2024
My cartridge filters in the VW don't have metal end caps...
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
My cartridge filters in the VW don't have metal end caps...
Then your vehicle will most likely spontaneously combust any second now.
Just kidding, different design. Cartridge V. Canister
Your good.
My cartridge filters in the VW don't have metal end caps...
Then your vehicle will most likely spontaneously combust any second now.
Just kidding, different design. Cartridge V. Canister
Your good.
OP the orange can will be more than fine and is a top choice in that price point IMO.
Not many filters in the 3 something buck range can boast synthetic blended media and a 95% efficiency. And yes there are some advantages to fiber endcaps, which is why Fram patented them in the first place.
Not many filters in the 3 something buck range can boast synthetic blended media and a 95% efficiency. And yes there are some advantages to fiber endcaps, which is why Fram patented them in the first place.
Get a quality Wix for around the same price.
Originally Posted By: jk_636
Present to me the burden of proof! Just because Fram uses them (who also happens to make many different OEM filters) doesn't make them the most prevelant.
I need to see some statistics to back that up. I highly doubt that Fram sells more filters worldwide than all other manufacturers combined.
I can play that card too ... why don't you prove that there are more metal end capped filters in the world. You made the claim initially. I'm still waiting for your spreadsheet of un-torn Purolators.
Present to me the burden of proof! Just because Fram uses them (who also happens to make many different OEM filters) doesn't make them the most prevelant.
I need to see some statistics to back that up. I highly doubt that Fram sells more filters worldwide than all other manufacturers combined.
I can play that card too ... why don't you prove that there are more metal end capped filters in the world. You made the claim initially. I'm still waiting for your spreadsheet of un-torn Purolators.
Originally Posted By: jk_636
Present to me the burden of proof! Just because Fram uses them (who also happens to make many different OEM filters) doesn't make them the most prevelant.
I need to see some statistics to back that up. I highly doubt that Fram sells more filters worldwide than all other manufacturers combined.
The issue is that you are not providing any proof that the cardboard end caps are bad. Where is your burden of proof? Arguing that premium filters don't use them is not relevant to the OP's question about the Extra Guard. We are talking about an entry level filter, and in the Extra Guard the end caps work just as good as the comparable metal end caps of comparable filters.
The end caps with glue hold the filter media in place, the structural integrity is the center tube. Proof of this is right here on BITOG. Look up cut open Extra Guards right here on this site. The end caps are in place, the media is intact, and there some waviness in the media. Now compare the multiple Purolator Classic filters cut open and shown on BITOG. Even with metal end caps, there is still always waviness of the pleats, just like the Extra Guards. I personally pulled apart a Motorcraft (Purolator made) with under 1k on it and the pleats were wavy. The metal end caps did nothing to prevent this, because the end caps aren't what support the the media.
So both popular entry level filters exhibit the same media deformation, despite one using cardboard and one using metal end caps. By continuing to argue that metal end caps are required to have a functional filter proves my point that people who make this argument don't fully understand how a filter functions.
Nobody is arguing that the Extra Guard is a premium filter, but it is a serviceable filter that will work fine for standard OCI's. And as stated by several posts including mine, the cardboard end caps are not an issue.
Present to me the burden of proof! Just because Fram uses them (who also happens to make many different OEM filters) doesn't make them the most prevelant.
I need to see some statistics to back that up. I highly doubt that Fram sells more filters worldwide than all other manufacturers combined.
The issue is that you are not providing any proof that the cardboard end caps are bad. Where is your burden of proof? Arguing that premium filters don't use them is not relevant to the OP's question about the Extra Guard. We are talking about an entry level filter, and in the Extra Guard the end caps work just as good as the comparable metal end caps of comparable filters.
The end caps with glue hold the filter media in place, the structural integrity is the center tube. Proof of this is right here on BITOG. Look up cut open Extra Guards right here on this site. The end caps are in place, the media is intact, and there some waviness in the media. Now compare the multiple Purolator Classic filters cut open and shown on BITOG. Even with metal end caps, there is still always waviness of the pleats, just like the Extra Guards. I personally pulled apart a Motorcraft (Purolator made) with under 1k on it and the pleats were wavy. The metal end caps did nothing to prevent this, because the end caps aren't what support the the media.
So both popular entry level filters exhibit the same media deformation, despite one using cardboard and one using metal end caps. By continuing to argue that metal end caps are required to have a functional filter proves my point that people who make this argument don't fully understand how a filter functions.
Nobody is arguing that the Extra Guard is a premium filter, but it is a serviceable filter that will work fine for standard OCI's. And as stated by several posts including mine, the cardboard end caps are not an issue.
Nick1994
$100 site donor 2024
Ok I found a Pep Boys with NextGen 10w40 on clearance for $1.90 each, with 6 quarts and a $4.19 OCOD and a $15 off coupon it's $0.59 plus tax for an oil change! Lol
MrQuackers
Site Donor 2024
No Pep Boys here. BOO!
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Bla, bla, bla. You're nonsensical. The engine will be fully capable of propelling the truck down the road if you stopped changing the oil and filter completely and just kept it topped off. But you have some OCD about clean engines.
You got time to bicker on an Internet forum of what cheap oil and filter to buy. You got time to do stupid-short, ridiculous, and useless oil changes but you don't have time to fix something important. Why isn't this vehicle worthy of premium things? What's your mother worth? She's the one you're really doing it for. What's more important, changing the oil or fixing a potentially deadly front end problem? You did say it was shot. How's the brakes? Those are probably shot too.
That clean, orange oil filter will look really good when the truck is upside down in a ditch because you're mother over-corrected when a tie rod let loose.
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
So just stop changing the oil and filter...seriously. What are you going to do, send it to the junk yard with "clean" oil after the front or rear end give way? Nonsensical. But hey, the guy that gets the engine from the junk yard will thank you. Think how clean those ring lands will be when the tie rod falls off and the truck goes sliding into a ditch or guard rail.
I'd spend the extra couple bucks and get an Ultra.
Why would I send it to the junk yard with a dirty engine and not change the oil? It's a car that has always had its oil changed since new every 4k miles or so, so I know the engine is clean. I have all new control arm bushings and tie rods waiting to go in, just haven't gotten around to doing it. The rear end howling is common and it hasn't changed in the last 70k miles so I don't care at all. As long as it keeps going down the road that's all that matters.
It's actually been amazingly reliable. For the past 141k miles the ONLY repairs done to it have been a leaky water pump at around 100k, a bad coolant temperature sensor at around 100k, a harmonic balancer at 130k, and a leaky heater hose I just fixed. Those have been the ONLY repairs on the car.
You got time to bicker on an Internet forum of what cheap oil and filter to buy. You got time to do stupid-short, ridiculous, and useless oil changes but you don't have time to fix something important. Why isn't this vehicle worthy of premium things? What's your mother worth? She's the one you're really doing it for. What's more important, changing the oil or fixing a potentially deadly front end problem? You did say it was shot. How's the brakes? Those are probably shot too.
That clean, orange oil filter will look really good when the truck is upside down in a ditch because you're mother over-corrected when a tie rod let loose.
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
So just stop changing the oil and filter...seriously. What are you going to do, send it to the junk yard with "clean" oil after the front or rear end give way? Nonsensical. But hey, the guy that gets the engine from the junk yard will thank you. Think how clean those ring lands will be when the tie rod falls off and the truck goes sliding into a ditch or guard rail.
I'd spend the extra couple bucks and get an Ultra.
Why would I send it to the junk yard with a dirty engine and not change the oil? It's a car that has always had its oil changed since new every 4k miles or so, so I know the engine is clean. I have all new control arm bushings and tie rods waiting to go in, just haven't gotten around to doing it. The rear end howling is common and it hasn't changed in the last 70k miles so I don't care at all. As long as it keeps going down the road that's all that matters.
It's actually been amazingly reliable. For the past 141k miles the ONLY repairs done to it have been a leaky water pump at around 100k, a bad coolant temperature sensor at around 100k, a harmonic balancer at 130k, and a leaky heater hose I just fixed. Those have been the ONLY repairs on the car.
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
Bla, bla, bla. You're nonsensical. The engine will be fully capable of propelling the truck down the road if you stopped changing the oil and filter completely and just kept it topped off. But you have some OCD about clean engines.
You got time to bicker on an Internet forum of what cheap oil and filter to buy. You got time to do stupid-short, ridiculous, and useless oil changes but you don't have time to fix something important. Why isn't this vehicle worthy of premium things? What's your mother worth? She's the one you're really doing it for. What's more important, changing the oil or fixing a potentially deadly front end problem? You did say it was shot. How's the brakes? Those are probably shot too.
That clean, orange oil filter will look really good when the truck is upside down in a ditch because you're mother over-corrected when a tie rod let loose.
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
So just stop changing the oil and filter...seriously. What are you going to do, send it to the junk yard with "clean" oil after the front or rear end give way? Nonsensical. But hey, the guy that gets the engine from the junk yard will thank you. Think how clean those ring lands will be when the tie rod falls off and the truck goes sliding into a ditch or guard rail.
I'd spend the extra couple bucks and get an Ultra.
Why would I send it to the junk yard with a dirty engine and not change the oil? It's a car that has always had its oil changed since new every 4k miles or so, so I know the engine is clean. I have all new control arm bushings and tie rods waiting to go in, just haven't gotten around to doing it. The rear end howling is common and it hasn't changed in the last 70k miles so I don't care at all. As long as it keeps going down the road that's all that matters.
It's actually been amazingly reliable. For the past 141k miles the ONLY repairs done to it have been a leaky water pump at around 100k, a bad coolant temperature sensor at around 100k, a harmonic balancer at 130k, and a leaky heater hose I just fixed. Those have been the ONLY repairs on the car.
You cant be serious...
Bla, bla, bla. You're nonsensical. The engine will be fully capable of propelling the truck down the road if you stopped changing the oil and filter completely and just kept it topped off. But you have some OCD about clean engines.
You got time to bicker on an Internet forum of what cheap oil and filter to buy. You got time to do stupid-short, ridiculous, and useless oil changes but you don't have time to fix something important. Why isn't this vehicle worthy of premium things? What's your mother worth? She's the one you're really doing it for. What's more important, changing the oil or fixing a potentially deadly front end problem? You did say it was shot. How's the brakes? Those are probably shot too.
That clean, orange oil filter will look really good when the truck is upside down in a ditch because you're mother over-corrected when a tie rod let loose.
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
So just stop changing the oil and filter...seriously. What are you going to do, send it to the junk yard with "clean" oil after the front or rear end give way? Nonsensical. But hey, the guy that gets the engine from the junk yard will thank you. Think how clean those ring lands will be when the tie rod falls off and the truck goes sliding into a ditch or guard rail.
I'd spend the extra couple bucks and get an Ultra.
Why would I send it to the junk yard with a dirty engine and not change the oil? It's a car that has always had its oil changed since new every 4k miles or so, so I know the engine is clean. I have all new control arm bushings and tie rods waiting to go in, just haven't gotten around to doing it. The rear end howling is common and it hasn't changed in the last 70k miles so I don't care at all. As long as it keeps going down the road that's all that matters.
It's actually been amazingly reliable. For the past 141k miles the ONLY repairs done to it have been a leaky water pump at around 100k, a bad coolant temperature sensor at around 100k, a harmonic balancer at 130k, and a leaky heater hose I just fixed. Those have been the ONLY repairs on the car.
You cant be serious...
Originally Posted By: jk_636
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: BikeWhisperer
OCOD is fine for 5k OCI's.
Any comments about the cardboard end caps being "bad" are from people who don't really understand how an oil filter functions...it's not the weakness they claim it is.
Absolutely correct.
Fibre end caps perform great and adhere to the filter far better than metal is able,thus a better seal.
There's nothing wrong with fram. In my known clean engines I'm using rebadged tough guards for 20000 miles,yes miles and upon dissection there is no visible failures anywhere and the drain back valve is still easily pliable.
So an orange can easily fulfils it's advertising.
Absolute nonsense. Cardboard and glue may be great for art projects, but metal endcaps provide added rigidity and integral support for the filter. Why do you think that all the top end filter models use metal? Its not because of synthetic media, its because filter manufacturers know metal = better.
Honda oil filters are FRAM and Subaru oil filters are fram. The center tube provides stability NOT the end caps. I am a Professional M.E. with 40 years experience.
Still I prefer OTHER filters due to the fram base design and the sloppy machining and rusty cans.
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: BikeWhisperer
OCOD is fine for 5k OCI's.
Any comments about the cardboard end caps being "bad" are from people who don't really understand how an oil filter functions...it's not the weakness they claim it is.
Absolutely correct.
Fibre end caps perform great and adhere to the filter far better than metal is able,thus a better seal.
There's nothing wrong with fram. In my known clean engines I'm using rebadged tough guards for 20000 miles,yes miles and upon dissection there is no visible failures anywhere and the drain back valve is still easily pliable.
So an orange can easily fulfils it's advertising.
Absolute nonsense. Cardboard and glue may be great for art projects, but metal endcaps provide added rigidity and integral support for the filter. Why do you think that all the top end filter models use metal? Its not because of synthetic media, its because filter manufacturers know metal = better.
Honda oil filters are FRAM and Subaru oil filters are fram. The center tube provides stability NOT the end caps. I am a Professional M.E. with 40 years experience.
Still I prefer OTHER filters due to the fram base design and the sloppy machining and rusty cans.
Nick1994
$100 site donor 2024
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
Bla, bla, bla. You're nonsensical. The engine will be fully capable of propelling the truck down the road if you stopped changing the oil and filter completely and just kept it topped off. But you have some OCD about clean engines.
You got time to bicker on an Internet forum of what cheap oil and filter to buy. You got time to do stupid-short, ridiculous, and useless oil changes but you don't have time to fix something important. Why isn't this vehicle worthy of premium things? What's your mother worth? She's the one you're really doing it for. What's more important, changing the oil or fixing a potentially deadly front end problem? You did say it was shot. How's the brakes? Those are probably shot too.
That clean, orange oil filter will look really good when the truck is upside down in a ditch because you're mother over-corrected when a tie rod let loose.
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
So just stop changing the oil and filter...seriously. What are you going to do, send it to the junk yard with "clean" oil after the front or rear end give way? Nonsensical. But hey, the guy that gets the engine from the junk yard will thank you. Think how clean those ring lands will be when the tie rod falls off and the truck goes sliding into a ditch or guard rail.
I'd spend the extra couple bucks and get an Ultra.
Why would I send it to the junk yard with a dirty engine and not change the oil? It's a car that has always had its oil changed since new every 4k miles or so, so I know the engine is clean. I have all new control arm bushings and tie rods waiting to go in, just haven't gotten around to doing it. The rear end howling is common and it hasn't changed in the last 70k miles so I don't care at all. As long as it keeps going down the road that's all that matters.
It's actually been amazingly reliable. For the past 141k miles the ONLY repairs done to it have been a leaky water pump at around 100k, a bad coolant temperature sensor at around 100k, a harmonic balancer at 130k, and a leaky heater hose I just fixed. Those have been the ONLY repairs on the car.
Who peed in your Cheerios this morning? Yeah the front end is what I call shot. It wears out the tires pretty quick since things are pretty worn. How is her safety in jeopardy? So if the car has 50k miles left in it, you're saying to just let it go 50k miles on this oil change and it'll make it there just fine? All you are to this forum is a troll. The brakes have 2k miles on them.
Bla, bla, bla. You're nonsensical. The engine will be fully capable of propelling the truck down the road if you stopped changing the oil and filter completely and just kept it topped off. But you have some OCD about clean engines.
You got time to bicker on an Internet forum of what cheap oil and filter to buy. You got time to do stupid-short, ridiculous, and useless oil changes but you don't have time to fix something important. Why isn't this vehicle worthy of premium things? What's your mother worth? She's the one you're really doing it for. What's more important, changing the oil or fixing a potentially deadly front end problem? You did say it was shot. How's the brakes? Those are probably shot too.
That clean, orange oil filter will look really good when the truck is upside down in a ditch because you're mother over-corrected when a tie rod let loose.
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
So just stop changing the oil and filter...seriously. What are you going to do, send it to the junk yard with "clean" oil after the front or rear end give way? Nonsensical. But hey, the guy that gets the engine from the junk yard will thank you. Think how clean those ring lands will be when the tie rod falls off and the truck goes sliding into a ditch or guard rail.
I'd spend the extra couple bucks and get an Ultra.
Why would I send it to the junk yard with a dirty engine and not change the oil? It's a car that has always had its oil changed since new every 4k miles or so, so I know the engine is clean. I have all new control arm bushings and tie rods waiting to go in, just haven't gotten around to doing it. The rear end howling is common and it hasn't changed in the last 70k miles so I don't care at all. As long as it keeps going down the road that's all that matters.
It's actually been amazingly reliable. For the past 141k miles the ONLY repairs done to it have been a leaky water pump at around 100k, a bad coolant temperature sensor at around 100k, a harmonic balancer at 130k, and a leaky heater hose I just fixed. Those have been the ONLY repairs on the car.
Who peed in your Cheerios this morning? Yeah the front end is what I call shot. It wears out the tires pretty quick since things are pretty worn. How is her safety in jeopardy? So if the car has 50k miles left in it, you're saying to just let it go 50k miles on this oil change and it'll make it there just fine? All you are to this forum is a troll. The brakes have 2k miles on them.
Nick1994
$100 site donor 2024
I also don't see how 4-5k mile oil changes are very short. Especially considering it almost never goes over 45 mph, and it sits in a parking lot of traffic on her way to and from work everyday. It has the 3.4L which is prone to LIM gaskets going out, it's also nice to change it out sooner to monitor if the oil all of a sudden has coolant in it.
Nick-there's NOTHING wrong with used tires, if they're still good, heck, my GMC in my sig has Bridgestones that were used when I bought them 6 years ago, still holding up. The OCOD is a good cheap filter, if you had Menard's out there, the $1.99 QS ones aren't bad either (when they're on sale).
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