Any Bridgestone/Firestone deals out there?

[Hokiefyd]

I post this in the tire section since it IS specific to tires...

About this time every year (January), B/F comes out with a "you pay what we pay" deal where you can buy tires at cost + $1. I've pretty much decided on two different tires at B/F, and would like to take advantage of a cost + $1 if they've got something like that going on.

Right now, they're running 25% off on Destination LE2 ($168-25%=$126 in my size), and Dueler H/L 422 Ecopia is regular price ($136 in my size). I suspect cost + $1 for either tire would be closer to $100 each.

Please...if anyone knows if B/F is running what seems to be an annual cost + $1 program right now, let me know.

Thanks.

 

[stephen9666]

I just looked through my email and in 2012 they sent out the email alert on January 18th. So, it could still be coming.

 

[glock19]

I have a few tangential questions:

1. How did you decide on those 2 tires? I'm curious because they're both options for my Outback.
2. I thought previously you said you didn't think the LE2's would wear well due to shallow siping. What changed your mind?

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: stephen9666
I just looked through my email and in 2012 they sent out the email alert on January 18th. So, it could still be coming.


I reached out to B/F corporate today via a social networking email I found surfing for this promotion. They said that they aren't offering the U Pay What We Pay promotion this year.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: glock19
I have a few tangential questions:

1. How did you decide on those 2 tires? I'm curious because they're both options for my Outback.
2. I thought previously you said you didn't think the LE2's would wear well due to shallow siping. What changed your mind?


I've always liked the Dueler 422s. They have a Michelin Primacy-like tread pattern, which seems to deliver a smooth and quiet ride. The Dueler 422 is an eco-minded tire that is so-named (422: April 22nd: Earth Day). They, unfortunately, aren't on sale at the moment. I might think they'd run a promotion on these close to Earth Day.

Yes, I'm not fond of the LE2's tread pattern in the sense that half of the siping seems to go away as the tire wears. But if I'm honest with myself, I don't drive in a lot of winter weather, where siping is critical, and I don't drive on wet pavement most of the time, another area where siping really helps. And the LE2s are 25% off through the end of the month, which is a pretty big discount. Given how and where I drive, I think I have to consider these, even if they're not my first choice.

I need to stop by the FCAC store tomorrow and see what their pricing/policy is on lifetime balancing and road hazard. They offer lifetime rotation (which I don't need), but don't say anything about lifetime balancing (which I do want). I don't know yet what I'll do, especially knowing that they don't be going on fire sale this year, but I'll weigh my options before the end of the month, when the LE2s go off sale. If I knew the 422s were going on sale next, I know I'd wait. Without knowing, I'm not sure what I'll do.

 

[glock19]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: glock19
I have a few tangential questions:

1. How did you decide on those 2 tires? I'm curious because they're both options for my Outback.
2. I thought previously you said you didn't think the LE2's would wear well due to shallow siping. What changed your mind?


I've always liked the Dueler 422s. They have a Michelin Primacy-like tread pattern, which seems to deliver a smooth and quiet ride. The Dueler 422 is an eco-minded tire that is so-named (422: April 22nd: Earth Day). They, unfortunately, aren't on sale at the moment. I might think they'd run a promotion on these close to Earth Day.

Yes, I'm not fond of the LE2's tread pattern in the sense that half of the siping seems to go away as the tire wears. But if I'm honest with myself, I don't drive in a lot of winter weather, where siping is critical, and I don't drive on wet pavement most of the time, another area where siping really helps. And the LE2s are 25% off through the end of the month, which is a pretty big discount. Given how and where I drive, I think I have to consider these, even if they're not my first choice.

I need to stop by the FCAC store tomorrow and see what their pricing/policy is on lifetime balancing and road hazard. They offer lifetime rotation (which I don't need), but don't say anything about lifetime balancing (which I do want). I don't know yet what I'll do, especially knowing that they don't be going on fire sale this year, but I'll weigh my options before the end of the month, when the LE2s go off sale. If I knew the 422s were going on sale next, I know I'd wait. Without knowing, I'm not sure what I'll do.


Thanks for elaborating. I don't need replacements any time soon, but when I do, those are the 2 best options for my Outback. I still haven't decided between them so I'll look forward to some updates on the LE2's.

My wife has the 422's on her Highlander but the car is so ridiculously numb that all I can ascertain is that they're quiet.

 

[Hokiefyd]

I never updated this thread: I bought the LE2s in mid-January, and have put a few thousand miles on them since. They have been balanced three times now, and I think they finally got it right. They weren't quite right directly after installation. After a number of weeks, I had one of the other Firestone stores in town balance them with their road force balancer. I asked for the road force numbers, but their printer was broken and the guy couldn't get them. But all the weights moved around, so I was encouraged. They initially seemed better, but they've been worse since. After removing the rear propeller shaft, verifying that it wasn't the problem, and reinstalling it, I was left to try another rebalance. The installing store did that this weekend and, fingers crossed...I think they're pretty good. Perhaps not *perfect*, but much better. The vibes occur in the 60-70 mph range...you could begin to feel it at about 60 mph, it was pretty bad in the 63-66 mph range, and you could drive out of it by about 68-70 mph. Now, after the second rebalance, they seem pretty smooth. I've driven it as fast as 65 mph since, but I think they're good now.

Which is good, because I otherwise like the tires. I keep about 31-32 psi in them (30 psi on the placard). They're a touch squirmy at that pressure, but the ride quality is nice, and they're quiet on coarse pavement (interestingly, they sing quite a bit on smooth pavement). If I go much above about 32 psi, they start to firm up quickly. Fuel economy seems to be constant, regardless of where I run the tires...and it's not really down much, if any, from the worn Michelin Latitude Tours, so that's good.

Wet weather performance has been outstanding. The LE2s start at 12/32" of tread, so there's plenty of depth to evacuate water. And they really do cut through deep puddles like a knife. I have lost a 32nd of an inch already, and I do hope the wear slows down *some*; at this rate, I'll have burned through these rather quick.

I'm happy with them at the price I paid. I would not have been happy if I paid full price for them. I think they're a mildly good value at 25% off; I think they're a poor value at MSRP. Interestingly, B/F must agree, as these have been at 25% off since about December.

 

[HangFire]

Thanks for the update. I expect the tread squirm will settle down after a little more wear-in.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Update, again. Firestone put another set of LE2s on my car last night. The original ones just didn't seem to either take or keep a balance. The new tires seem to be as bad or worse than the previous set. These really thump in the mornings after an overnight sit. I can understand that if it gets down to 0 deg at night, but it was 70 deg last night! I drive out of my neighborhood and right onto a 55 mph state highway, and the thumping was terrible this morning.

And it doesn't go away with time, either. Part of my commute is a 65 mph freeway, and that's where I'd normally feel the vibes. The thumping in the morning is new to this set.

At this point, I plan to swap tires/wheels with the Acura this weekend and see if the vibration stays with the Honda or if it moves to the Acura. If it stays with the Honda, then I know where the problem lies. If it moves to the Acura, then I know it's either the tires or the wheels.

Two FCACs in town have Hunter road force balancers, and the one I visited first didn't seem all that on the ball. They really didn't diagnose much (they didn't check my wheels) and they claimed that their printer was broken, so they couldn't tell me the road force numbers. If the problem seems to be in the tires/wheels, I will carry the car to the other FCAC across town and have them diagnose the problem...either bad tire(s) or out-of-round wheel(s).

I previously had a set of Michelin Latitude Tours that vibrated in a similar fashion, but the severity was much less. Sears balanced them twice, and they were dead smooth except in the 62-64 mph range, where they'd flutter a little bit. Same story here -- except the Firestones are doing more than just fluttering -- you can see the vibration in the empty passenger seat.

Regardless of tire brand, I don't seem to have much luck with finding perfectly-balanced tires.

 

[mrsilv04]

Does Firestone use red or yellow dots on the sidewall at all?

I think you're going to have to find a good independent tire and wheel shop, who has good balancing equipment, and the staff who knows how to use it.

 

[meep]

Hard to judge if it's the tires, the workmanship, or if you are also just much more aware of the vibrations than most folks. What size does the CRV run?

My LE2's have been balanced initially and rebalanced a couple of times per free rotations. There are always tiny differences every time--- both from the rotation and also probably from the rebalance. Right now they are so smooth--until I hit 65-70. But these are big 265s with 70 sidewall on a 16 rim... so I can't expect them to be as accurate as a 60 series 205....

I will say mine make cupping/growling noises, but I'm not sure I can blame the tire. It started after a really strenuous tow through the appalachians with lots of gas and brake. It started after that and hasn't settled out even with rotations. Before that, mine have always been quiet.

Anywho, I just never get them to be perfect. It's a truck and I'm not sure if I get to expect "perfect."

The original LEs on our MDX are pretty much spot on but have a little vibration on the interstate. Not bad, you just know its there. They make more noise. They are a warranty replacement set for a set of LE's where 3 of 4 were out of round (bought those at the very end of the LE1 line.

The GY TT on the van, I think 60 series, have zero vibrations, original balance, same firestone dealer. Come to think of it, while I've never been very pleased with most GY experiences besides that set, I've never had balance issues with them. hmm.

It is curious to me

 

[Hokiefyd]

The CR-V uses 225/65R17s. The tires aren't super heavy (29 pounds), so I don't feel that they should be particularly difficult to balance. I tried to hint at them putting lighter tires on (Ecopia) this time to make them easier to balance, but the store manager was grumpy that day and just shot back with, "nah, the LE2 is our best selling tire".

I admit to being more sensitive than usual to tire balance. I'm like that with all aspects of the car. I can usually tell if a car has too much (or too little) front toe just by how it turns-in. That said, I am able to be pleased. The Primacy MXV4s on our MDX are pretty good. They have a slight flutter up at about 75 mph, but are dead smooth at all speeds below that, and that's acceptable to me.

 

[Hokiefyd]

I have the tires swapped across. At the 30 psi called-for by the Honda, installed on the Acura, I can feel the same vibrations. Once aired-up to about 33 psi (Acura calls for 32), most of the vibrations are gone. I have not yet driven the Honda with the Acura's tires on it, but I trust that it'll be completely smooth, as the LE2s are now exhibiting the same vibes on the Acura as they were on the Honda.

Being smoother with more air pressure seems consistent with the last set on the Honda. They also seem to be better the longer I drive...with 10 or 15 miles on a drive before I get to 62 mph, the vibes are nearly imperceptible.

I'm beginning to think that this may just be how these tires behave. I did observe that the LE2s, besides having the deep 12/32" of tread, have pretty soft/thin sidewalls. So I suppose that it would stand to reason that any shocks or harmonics in the tire would be less suppressed by softer sidewalls than they would be by stiffer sidewalls. The deeper tread also leaves more material there to resonate at a certain speed perhaps, or after a certain road irregularity.

I'll probably leave the tires switched for a week or so, to be certain that it's not in the car, but in the tires/wheels somewhere, and if I swap them back and there's still a noticeable vibration, I'll have them check the run-out on the wheels and the road force in the tires. If good, I think I'll just "give up", and accept that this is just how these particular tires are. If that is indeed the case, I'll probably buy a different tire next time.

I'll update in another week or two once I find out more.

 

[Hokiefyd]

I should say, reference the air pressure, that I really prefer to run the LE2s at the spec'd 30 psi on the Honda. Impact harshness turns markedly worse even at 32 psi. Also, I had been running the previous set at anywhere from 32-35 psi (trying different pressures) to help the vibrations, and after a few thousand miles, there was a small but consistent difference in tread depth between the two inner and two outer tread grooves. The inners were a hair below 11/32" and the two outers were a hair above 11/32", so that overinflation pattern had begun to set in.

If the wheels were wider than the 6.5" that they are, I could probably get away with more inflation, but the spec'd 30 psi seems to be bang-on for the best wear pattern here...

 

[Hokiefyd]

I swapped wheels/tires between my two vehicles this weekend and came away more confused than before. I drove the Acura a lot with the LE2s on it, and believe that they're pretty smooth. I initially felt some vibrations, but after a lot of driving, I think it perhaps was just that particular road. I ran it up and down the freeway that I normally drive and it was pretty smooth. Same with the Honda, oddly. I ran it up and down the same freeway, with the Acura's MXV4 tires, and it was pretty smooth.

Maybe there's some "vibration stacking" going on, where the LE2s are just a hair out of balance and the Acura doesn't notice it. And maybe there's just a slight imbalance in the Honda somewhere (a half shaft) that's not quite noticeable with balanced tires. But together, they combine to shake it up.

I have an appt for Wed @ 4pm to have them road force balanced. I'm going to ask for wheel runout numbers and road force numbers. We'll see how it goes.

 

[DuckRyder]

Keep in mind that the tires being different sizes could move the vibration with respect to indicated speed.

That said I think you may be surprised what a good operator using the OEM match feature of the Hunter GSP can do. Much like alignments, you need someone who understands that "in spec" does not necessarily mean good. My guy regularly halves the road force using OEM match, even on an assembly that is under the "spec" to begin with.

Strongly suggest (which is to say insist) that they get them as low as possible. I'd also suggest making the shop aware of the vibration so they know its not just a routine balance.

The GSP at my dealer is programmed to look for lower road force numbers on both cars and trucks than the average GSP (18 and 25 vs 25 and 32 IIRC) So it might even be worth calling the Honda dealer and seeing what they think is acceptable, if you can get to the right person.

 

[Hokiefyd]

If I understand this correctly, there can be excess wheel runout and excess tire runout, but if they happen to be matched (or are intentionally matched), then the runout of either isn't critical. In other words, as long as the road force numbers and total runout of the assembly are good, then the runout of either the tire or the wheel becomes secondary, right?

The first time I went in for a road force balance (to a different store, a few months ago), I advised them of the vibrations, but I think they still treated it as a routine balance. They did use the road force balancer, but they didn't re-clock any of the tires, added weights where it said, and sent me on my way. This time, I'm trying a different store and I will ask for the runout and road force numbers to let them know that I'm familiar with the concept and that I'd like to see them matched up as best as possible.

Back from my FWD GM days, we used to look for road force numbers in the single digits. Anything more, and you'd shake the front end due to a design element in the larger GM vehicles. GM redesigned the control arms with hydro bushings for some of these, but not all. Anyway...I will advise them that my particular car seems sensitive to balance and will ask them to do their best.

Re: indicated speed...absolutely. I did check them at speeds of between 55 and 70 mph to get the full range. In addition to differences in indicated speed, there could be something particular to my CR-V (a half shaft vibration, etc) that perhaps resonates at a certain speed, and if the tire's also vibrating at exactly that speed, they "stack" to produce the feel in the chassis...but if BOTH aren't present at the same speed, it won't.

I hope to know more tomorrow afternoon. Thx.

 

[EdwardC]

Thanks for the updates, good luck with the balancing appointment tomorrow, I'm interested to see what turns up. I'll admit that the Dueler Ecopias that you mentioned have been very smooth for me on my Element, which is by far not known as a luxury vehicle.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Edward, good to hear. I'm beginning to wish I'd gone that route as well (the Ecopias)!

Further complicating me perceiving what's wrong with my Destinations is they seem to flatspot severely, even in mild/warm weather. The vibrations in the 50-60 mph range, just a few miles into my journey, are pretty bad. Later in the day, I don't feel the vibration in that speed range much...I do still feel it in the 60-65 mph range...and I think those are from something in the tires not related to flatspotting.

The drive to work is pretty maddening -- with the flatspotting and the vibrations at speed. On the ride home, I'm treated to only the high speed shakes...

I don't recall, interestingly, the first set of Destinations flatspotting this bad. But I also had them at a higher inflation pressure to help overcome the high speed vibrations, so that probably helps...

 

[DuckRyder]

What is the construction of these tires? Nylon belts?

WRT the Road Force, it is more than just runout, it is a matter of checking several variables and trying to match them for to best effect.

http://www.gsp9700.com/technical/index.htm

http://www.gsp9700.com/how/index.htm

I do not claim to be an expert, but I have been a Tire/Brake/Alignment guy in a past life, and I do have back door privileges at my dealer. I've watched a BUNCH of tires on a GSP9700. If you're running it in OEM Matching mode it will tell you if you can reduce the assembly road force even if it is under the "spec". IME it is conservative - that is if it says you can reduce the RF to 8lbs it is likely you can get it under 8lbs, usually quite a bit under.