Gear Oil or Motor Oil Sportster questions.....

[alarmguy]

Originally Posted By: endeavor to persevere
Alarmguy is full opinions but he has no personal facts to back them up. He says to use what Harley recommends for transmissions. Well from what the experts say Formuls + is nothing but gear oil. It smells just like gear oil. Its minersl oil with very little additives. It is the same weight as 75W90 gear oil. So if Harley recommends gear oil for transmissions why not get the best gear oil money can buy. Buy the way there are many Sportster riders who have 100K on their bikes usung 75W90 with no ill effects. Works for me. And the Red Line tect recommends it. They did test on it in the Sportster transmission with good results acording to the email he sent me.


I wont get caught in a posting "match" with you, I am posting to the person who started this thread. Just supply your proof, of which you have NONE. Why you may ask? Harley doesnt recommended a gear oil. You will not be able to produce anything from Harley saying so except your incorrect thought. BTW Harely DOES 100% recommend a 20/50 motor oil, there is a fact for you. Read any late version touring owners manual.

 

[alarmguy]

"
Some call for gear oil...some call for motor oil. Many modern car & truck transmissions have called for ATF since the 80's."

Im just relying to your reply to me but at the bottom you summed it up (so will keep it short) ...
Exactly, I agree with this statement 100%.
There is a reason manufacturers recommend what they think best for their product.

 

[kmrcstintn]

my first motorcycle was a 2008 buell blast which has 2 sumps like the sportster; my first service I had a dealer use H-D Syn 3 in both sumps; if I had kept it my plan was to use Mobil 1 20w-50 motorcycle oil or 15w-50 pcmo in the primary/transmission/clutch sump with fluid changes every 5000 miles & using a good quality conventional 20w-50 oil in the engine with oil/filter changes evety 2500 miles;

my current bikes use a common sump for engine/transmission/clutch so everything gets 10w-40 motorcycle oil or 15w-40 hdeo

 

[alarmguy]

[/quote] Could it be they actually found products that work better? Like a transmission oil that doesn't make the transmission sound like there's no oil in it? Or primary oil that doesn't make the clutch plates grabby, that causes that pleasant BANG when you put your $25,000 motorcycle in first gear?.And when people venture outside the showroom of the people that "sell and recommend" what Harley buys from the lowest bidder,you find happier owners. Did you ever wonder why Harley dealers use scare tactics to sell extended warranty's?. They would loose a fortune if motors and transmissions didn't fail by not using their cut rate products at jewelry store prices.,, [/quote]

My 14 Road King runs like a swiss watch using basic primary plus in the primary and transmission and conventional 20/50 360 in the engine.

But if your bike has issues, I see nothing wrong in using a fluid not recommended, but if I was you I would certainly exhaust all mechanical possibilities first. No different to me then if the same was with a car or truck.
I can also see, as you posted choosing a variety of oils in the proper weight range, recommended by the maker, if anything works better for someone of course go for it.

If it wasn't for this rainy weather in the Southeast I would have enough miles for my next oil change, I got the filter but not the oil, yet. Its going to be either Mystik 15/50 or my old trusty, love it Valvoline 20/50 conventional motorcycle oil.
The Mystik meets HDs Ch+ rating the Valvoline only SG ... oh well ... we will see!

 

[alarmguy]

Originally Posted By: shanneba
Something I didn't see mentioned so for, some GL5 Diff lubes also are suggested for MT-1 applications. Red Line lists MT-1 applications on 75w-90. Amsoil and Mobil 1 75w-90 ls do not mention MT-1.

MT-1 is for non syncro manual transmissions-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gear_oil
API Category MT-1 designates lubricants intended for non-synchronized manual transmissions used in buses and heavy-duty trucks. Lubricants meeting API MT-1 provide protection against the combination of thermal degradation, component wear, and oil seal deterioration which is not provided by lubricants meeting only the requirements of API GL-4 and API GL-5.


Great post with facts.

 

[alarmguy]

"Could it be they actually found products that work better? Like a transmission oil that doesn't make the transmission sound like there's no oil in it? Or primary oil that doesn't make the clutch plates grabby, that causes that pleasant BANG when you put your $25,000 motorcycle in first gear?"

From Cycle World April 2015 in regard to THE HD Electra Glide Ultra transmission
"Moreover, the engine is so smooth and relaxed that you'll occasionally catch yourself motoring along in fifth on the highway thinking your in top gear. And that gearbox is excellent. Upshifting is always a cinch, downshifts are never clunky ... "

 

[alarmguy]

Originally Posted By: Bushshaker
Thanks, I'm really enjoying this thread. ... No data to support my beliefs in feel, function, and sound of the bike. I just don't want to start an oil war.


Lots of valid thoughts here for sure! Ill gracefully bow out now ) ... In case I wasnt clear, chances are if I had an older Harley I might be tempted to use what works best for me, because I do not think, either way, using gear lube or motor oil I will damage anything. I just question the practice for those who do not have issues with shifting. If I choose a gear lube, I would be tempted to go with Amsoil possibly Mobile 1 or one with military specs as someone else posted above. I believe but did not look into it as much, the military spec has got to not effect softer metals and seals. I THINK on Amsoils website there is a test of gear lubes there which show who passed or someplace on the net. I also think, Redline has a labeled transmission gear type lube. etc. etc. In all my posts I was only questioning why ... there are bikes that some really have problems with using regular oil but if your not having a problem I think its wrong to say gear lube is best or it would be used ... now back to the thread ... Ill stay out of it!

 

[gman2304]

Not a sporty, but I used Redline Shockproof in my 95 EG Ultra the last transmission oil change and am pleased so far. My transmission shifts as described in the Cycle World critique above, only mine is a 20 year old 5 speed. I'm good with the Redline Shockproof. If I had a new Harley, I would use the Harley oil for the warranty period....then the Redline Shockproof after.

 

[endeavor to persevere]

I wont get caught in a posting "match" with you, I am posting to the person who started this thread. Just supply your proof, of which you have NONE. Why you may ask? Harley doesnt recommended a gear oil. You will not be able to produce anything from Harley saying so except your incorrect thought. BTW Harely DOES 100% recommend a 20/50 motor oil, there is a fact for you. Read any late version touring owners manual. [/quote]


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Opinions vary. I have been riding Harleys since 1960 but I am no fan boy. I see your mind is made up and no amount of facts will sway you. Thats fine as there are many that are not brained washed by the moco. Have a good one....

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: endeavor to persevere


I wont get caught in a posting "match" with you, I am posting to the person who started this thread. Just supply your proof, of which you have NONE. Why you may ask? Harley doesnt recommended a gear oil. You will not be able to produce anything from Harley saying so except your incorrect thought. BTW Harely DOES 100% recommend a 20/50 motor oil, there is a fact for you. Read any late version touring owners manual.



-----------------------------------------------

Opinions vary. I have been riding Harleys since 1960 but I am no fan boy. I see your mind is made up and no amount of facts will sway you. Thats fine as there are many that are not brained washed by the moco. Have a good one....[/quote]


Quite right. However since the moco doesn't formulate a gear oil per sey why would they specify one for use in their machines.

Having used the moco suggested fluid and redline shockproof the difference in shifting is obvious and I don't care what harley says I'll never go back to using an engine oil,a fluid optimized for use in an engine,in a gear box.
Not when there are fluids formulated and optimized for just such an application,they are called gear oils.

 

[rossn2]

Quote:
Having used the moco suggested fluid and redline shockproof the difference in shifting is obvious and I don't care what harley says I'll never go back to using an engine oil,a fluid optimized for use in an engine,in a gear box.
Not when there are fluids formulated and optimized for just such an application,they are called gear oils.


I'm on my 5th Harley, over 200k miles between them and I've run the SYN III, Amsoil 75w-110 gear oil and now Schaffer's Gear oil in the transmission. My bikes, and my riding buddies use Gear oil, period, in the transmissions. They shift better, and run cooler (used a thermal gun) with the gear oil. Not one of us have a transmission related problem. The only true way of knowing what a lubricant is doing is to conduct a series of UOA's...Don't remember seeing any UOA's on Harley SynIII or Gear oils from transmissions ...

 

[splineman]

I use the same oil in engine and primary in my sporty.

A couple of points to make.

Sportsters are pretty low power machines and so oil suitable for 200hp + shared sump machines should work fine.

Many motorcycle and Diesel oils are designed with clutches and gearboxes in mind so should work fine.

The main thing for me is that many high power shared sump machines use 10W-40 (20w-50 for sportsters) and last for ages and my sportster is not really any different and makes far less power. IF the engine designers at Harley shared the sump with primary as the only change we would use engine oil and not have a concern.

One other small point is that the specialized "sportster" branded primary oils are expensive. Specialized branding is profitable.

Enjoying the conversation so far...

Cheers.

 

[benjy]

you can't go wrong with Redline lubricants still ester based real group V synthetics. as stated manufacturers that get a lubricant made cheaply by bid + sell for big profits. i believe Amsoil has "slipped" + are now using good group III's in place of better PAO base oils, again more profits!