Any professional ASE Technicians on forum?

[LoneRanger]

Preferably experienced with Subaru. I know I keep posting about my car, '09 Forester. But today it's done something that I think narrows it to maybe a calibration issue with the Electronic Throttle assembly on the throttle body? About a $600 part.

Yesterday I did another idle re-learn on it in attempt to get the idle to factory spec 650 rpm, as it was sluffing at about 450 - 500. No joy on the re-learn and worse, it seemed to widen the overall resolution of the throttle to where it took noticeably more pedal movement to get to a given rpm yielding a slow linear rise instead of the crisp flaring response that has always been the norm. Talking about shifter in neutral, clutch pressed down, stationary and rpm response on tach vs. pedal action.

So later today I had the idea of going key-on with system energized but engine off and pressing the pedal through full range of motion a few times slowly and a few times quicker (but not slamming it), then key off. Waited a few seconds and started it up, repeated the neutral test on rpm's and pedal travel. It was back to normal, nice and crisp again plus now idling at or near 650.

Wondered if I had only erased parameter data and it would re-learn upon driving, and go back to its prior low idle and sluggish response. However, went ahead and drove some and the normal state has held through several on/off cycles running errands this afternoon (day off) and mixed town/suburban driving.

Sure seems to point to the throttle controller playing games. Was wondering if any techs had run into this with electric throttle plate Subarus?

 

[dishdude]

Probably a question better asked on a Subaru specific site.

 

[bdcardinal]

Plus ASE certification just means you got someone to sign off you had a job for 2 years and you passed a multiple choice test. I passed one of my tests without opening the exam book, just peeked to see how many questions and went ABACADABA down the list.

 

[LoneRanger]

Originally Posted By: dishdude
Probably a question better asked on a Subaru specific site.



I used to hang out also on subaruforester.org, but most of the tech expertise is gone from there lately.

 

[dishdude]

I didn't think anyone was really doing ASE certs any more. I know it was a big deal in the 90's, with most guys just getting Brakes and Steering/Suspension. Everyone figured out it was a waste.

 

[bdcardinal]

Originally Posted By: dishdude
I didn't think anyone was really doing ASE certs any more. I know it was a big deal in the 90's, with most guys just getting Brakes and Steering/Suspension.


I let mine expire. Sears was pushing us to get them and hung a raise like a carrot to get us to do it. I was the only one to bite and they said I already made too much to get a raise. The certificate papers make nice toilet paper though.

 

[another Todd]

Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Plus ASE certification just means you got someone to sign off you had a job for 2 years and you passed a multiple choice test. I passed one of my tests without opening the exam book, just peeked to see how many questions and went ABACADABA down the list.


To some like bdcardinal an ASE cert means the above (not much). But unlike the above there are plenty who are real mechanics and not just guessing on the tests. These folks care (unlike above), keep up to date, informed, and are good mechanics. The test guessers are the ones who give the industry a bad name.

 

[artificialist]

I have my certs, but those certs never cover specific problems.

Some cars have an extemely complex procedure to reset the throttle body. In those cases, you don't even need a scan tool. Many of my friends have solved this issue on Nissan Altimas without replacing the throttle body.

Sometimes you have to try more than once. The computer programming expects you to do every processes at exactly the right time, and you may end up having to try the procedure more than once. Ever reset an OLM on a 1999+ GMC truck? The pickyness of the computer programming is similar.

I suggest you go to a Subaru forum, see if there is a procedure like what Nissan uses.

 

[t1snwrbrdr12]

I was ase certified when I worked for subaru hyundai and Chrysler jeep. Now that I went fleet I don't keep up with my certs.

Have you cleaned the throttle body and plate yet? I know you've been relearning the idle, but it really needs to be cleaned. Low mileage doesnt mean it's clean. It could be dirtier for that matter. We cleaned them, If the customer would pay for the service, every 15k here in Maryland where there's alot of stop and go driving.

I'd pull the air tube off, clean it good. Disconnect the battery before you start so you are sure it loses its learned parameters. Reconnect it and start it. You'll likey have to use the throttle to start it, unless you clean the throttle body off the intake. I always just cleaned them right on the car and never had an issue.

 

[cptbarkey]

"Any professional ASE Technicians on forum?"

Plenty at the dealer, good luck.

 

[Nate1979]

I have heard that idle relearn doesnt always work at home and best to do with real scan tool. Why not take it to a respected Subie shop before throwing parts at it?

 

[LoneRanger]

I pulled the air box and inspected it and it looked fine, not any wisps of dirt at the edges as I'd expected to see. This was via a mirror and good light source.

The good running has held through today going to and from work. The so called calibration technique is around the net across various brands and always the same as what I did yesterday. Key on do not start, slowly floor the pedal, let it back up, key off, wait a few secs, fire it up. Some of the various posts say to repeat the range of motion three times. It's all pretty much a voodoo dance unless and until an official source is unearthed telling that this is a cal procedure for their throttle controller.

Last night I pulled up a PDF I have on my drive in my Subaru folder, it Module 406 of a Subaru Technician Reference Booklet this one being module 406 for Subaru Fuel Injection Systems. Dated January 2009. Pages 7 - 18 cover the Electronic Throttle Control and components and the Accelerator Sensor and components. After skimming over it I came to gather that it should be virtually impossible for the throttle controller to lose "calibration" because the ECM has each of two sub cpu's constantly cross checking their math against the other for the Accelerator sensor and the ECT's business relationship, and if any computations fall outside of parameters it will trip a DTC and light the CEL. So, it makes absolutely no sense that this so called "calibration" nonsense I performed with the pedal at key on would have any effect whatsoever. But it did. Perhaps there is a hole in the fabric of the universe and it is in my car. All I know is it is running proper for now. If it goes sluffy again for no reason it has to be something has gone flakey in the ECT and I'll end up being about $600 lighter for a new one.


Originally Posted By: t1snwrbrdr12
I was ase certified when I worked for subaru hyundai and Chrysler jeep. Now that I went fleet I don't keep up with my certs.

Have you cleaned the throttle body and plate yet? I know you've been relearning the idle, but it really needs to be cleaned. Low mileage doesnt mean it's clean. It could be dirtier for that matter. We cleaned them, If the customer would pay for the service, every 15k here in Maryland where there's alot of stop and go driving.

I'd pull the air tube off, clean it good. Disconnect the battery before you start so you are sure it loses its learned parameters. Reconnect it and start it. You'll likey have to use the throttle to start it, unless you clean the throttle body off the intake. I always just cleaned them right on the car and never had an issue.

 

[LoneRanger]

Originally Posted By: Nate1979
I have heard that idle relearn doesnt always work at home and best to do with real scan tool. Why not take it to a respected Subie shop before throwing parts at it?


Just a scan tool or do you mean the Subaru Select Monitor ?

Usually only dealers have the SSM.

There is a free Win app called FreeSSM you can do at home with a laptop and OBDII USB cable but I don't know if it can do idle learn. Nothing nearly as capable as the real SSM but maybe worth having, could be a handy app to have around.

 

[Nate1979]

Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
I have heard that idle relearn doesnt always work at home and best to do with real scan tool. Why not take it to a respected Subie shop before throwing parts at it?


Just a scan tool or do you mean the Subaru Select Monitor ?

Usually only dealers have the SSM.

There is a free Win app called FreeSSM you can do at home with a laptop and OBDII USB cable but I don't know if it can do idle learn. Nothing nearly as capable as the real SSM but maybe worth having, could be a handy app to have around.



Yeah, the shop tool, not the at home scanner. I thought I remember seeing this in another forum where persons would repeatedly try the at home relearn without it working. A few min at a shop and fixed.