I am thinking that I might do 4 drain and fills for the next 4 oil changes(5000 mile intervals). On the last one, drop the pan and change the filter. It has 80k on it now and would have 100k by the time I did the filter change. I only drive about 10k miles a year so the cost of the 12-16 quarts of WS aren't that big a deal. Repeat the process at 150k but that is 5 years down the road.
Aisin ATF WS?
- Thread starter NeilC
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Originally Posted By: NeilC
For those that run MaxLife, how often do you do drain and fills, which is what I call the 3-4 quart pan drain. Also for those that are doing the cooler "complete drain" how are you doing it and how often are you doing that?
All my vehicles get a simple drain a fill with MaxLife LV ATF each spring before the summer heat arrives. $15.00 per year per vehicle is inexpensive insurance for longterm reliability.
For those that run MaxLife, how often do you do drain and fills, which is what I call the 3-4 quart pan drain. Also for those that are doing the cooler "complete drain" how are you doing it and how often are you doing that?
All my vehicles get a simple drain a fill with MaxLife LV ATF each spring before the summer heat arrives. $15.00 per year per vehicle is inexpensive insurance for longterm reliability.
Originally Posted By: 147_Grain
Originally Posted By: NeilC
For those that run MaxLife, how often do you do drain and fills, which is what I call the 3-4 quart pan drain. Also for those that are doing the cooler "complete drain" how are you doing it and how often are you doing that?
All my vehicles get a simple drain a fill with MaxLife LV ATF each spring before the summer heat arrives. $15.00 per year per vehicle is inexpensive insurance for longterm reliability.
This is the method to my madness too. I originally wanted to do a pan drop (and filter change) every other year and siphon 4-5 quarts and replenish in between, but I am thinking I can stretch the filter out a bit longer.
Either way, a little less than $20 in ATF per year isnt bad insurance either. As of now, my ATF is bright red.
Originally Posted By: NeilC
For those that run MaxLife, how often do you do drain and fills, which is what I call the 3-4 quart pan drain. Also for those that are doing the cooler "complete drain" how are you doing it and how often are you doing that?
All my vehicles get a simple drain a fill with MaxLife LV ATF each spring before the summer heat arrives. $15.00 per year per vehicle is inexpensive insurance for longterm reliability.
This is the method to my madness too. I originally wanted to do a pan drop (and filter change) every other year and siphon 4-5 quarts and replenish in between, but I am thinking I can stretch the filter out a bit longer.
Either way, a little less than $20 in ATF per year isnt bad insurance either. As of now, my ATF is bright red.
I'll be the lone dissenter here and say that I've always used OE ATF--except when you could actually get an aftermarket spec'd (not "recommended"!) product like Dexron III or VI.
Every 30K miles I always do a drain and fill if it has a drain plug or use a fluid extractor/fill if not.
My 2002 Toyota Tacoma has 180K miles with no issues. I use Mobil 1 ATF that was previously spec'd Dex III before that spec lapsed.
My 2003 Hyundai Santa Fe has always had Hyundai SPIII. Every 30K miles like clockwork. I only get about 4 quarts at a time out, but it always looks good. I have about 190K miles on it and it still shifts great. People bad mouth SPIII (and I know Max Life is "recommended" for SPIII) but I'm more comfortable using OE.
I'm starting this same treatment with my 2012 Toyota Highlander. It just hit 30K miles so I did a drain/fill using Toyota WS.
I've never gone wrong using OE ATF. I'm all about best of breed oil, but using a one-size-fits-most ATF has always made me a bit nervous. I'm sure it is fine for most applications, but spending $10/quart every few years isn't enough for me to worry about when it comes to making sure my transmission keeps working properly. I figure every 30K miles is enough to keep the fluid fresh even if (supposedly) the OE stuff isn't always the best.
Every 30K miles I always do a drain and fill if it has a drain plug or use a fluid extractor/fill if not.
My 2002 Toyota Tacoma has 180K miles with no issues. I use Mobil 1 ATF that was previously spec'd Dex III before that spec lapsed.
My 2003 Hyundai Santa Fe has always had Hyundai SPIII. Every 30K miles like clockwork. I only get about 4 quarts at a time out, but it always looks good. I have about 190K miles on it and it still shifts great. People bad mouth SPIII (and I know Max Life is "recommended" for SPIII) but I'm more comfortable using OE.
I'm starting this same treatment with my 2012 Toyota Highlander. It just hit 30K miles so I did a drain/fill using Toyota WS.
I've never gone wrong using OE ATF. I'm all about best of breed oil, but using a one-size-fits-most ATF has always made me a bit nervous. I'm sure it is fine for most applications, but spending $10/quart every few years isn't enough for me to worry about when it comes to making sure my transmission keeps working properly. I figure every 30K miles is enough to keep the fluid fresh even if (supposedly) the OE stuff isn't always the best.
What I kept thinking was that the Toyota fluid is supposed to be a "lifetime" fluid for a "lifetime" transmission. That being said, I have not read of any Toyota transmission failure that is being attributed to switching to Maxlife. I dont know how different the function of my transmission is compared to other manufacturer's transmissions but the main difference is the lack of a dip stick. I have read of these transmissions failing due to low/no fluid. This could be easily checked had the transmission been made with a dipstick. The only way to really check the fluid level is to get underneath, pull the overflow plug and attempt to fill it. If a fluid is best for similar transmissions with a dip stick, what would make it unacceptable for the sealed transmissions? I haven't been able to find any significant reason why the Toyota transmission needs a special fluid to function other than Toyota says it does. What I have read over and over again is how bad the original fluid looked coming out of transmissions with 80-90,000 miles. It cant be good to leave it in there for the "lifetime." That is the one surefire way to guarantee the transmission dies.
Originally Posted By: NeilC
If a fluid is best for similar transmissions with a dip stick, what would make it unacceptable for the sealed transmissions?
For what it's worth, my 2010 Corolla has the same "lifetime" fill of WS, but it also came with a transmission dipstick, pan drain plug, and a real filter (not screen). Servicing it is as straightforward as can be.
Originally Posted By: NeilC
I haven't been able to find any significant reason why the Toyota transmission needs a special fluid to function other than Toyota says it does.
That's the real question. Besides being thin on the viscosity side, is the add pack bog standard or has some real chemistry magic to it? Until I get a good answer to that question, I'm sticking with OEM WS. More power to the experimenters, and I'm always will to consider other options, but since my transmission is so easy to service, it's no big deal for me to just drain and fill a couple quarts every oil change. If it was a real PITA, I probably would be looking hard at synthetic aftermarket options.
If a fluid is best for similar transmissions with a dip stick, what would make it unacceptable for the sealed transmissions?
For what it's worth, my 2010 Corolla has the same "lifetime" fill of WS, but it also came with a transmission dipstick, pan drain plug, and a real filter (not screen). Servicing it is as straightforward as can be.
Originally Posted By: NeilC
I haven't been able to find any significant reason why the Toyota transmission needs a special fluid to function other than Toyota says it does.
That's the real question. Besides being thin on the viscosity side, is the add pack bog standard or has some real chemistry magic to it? Until I get a good answer to that question, I'm sticking with OEM WS. More power to the experimenters, and I'm always will to consider other options, but since my transmission is so easy to service, it's no big deal for me to just drain and fill a couple quarts every oil change. If it was a real PITA, I probably would be looking hard at synthetic aftermarket options.
It's a 50K fluid at most. Virgin WS is pink and when it goes bad, it goes really bad. I changed the WS fluid in my bro's 04 Lexus LS430 with 102,000mi and the fluid is mud black. The stench that come with it is much worse, smells like a junkyard's used oil drum. I ran almost 14 qts just to get the color to come out red or close to pink when I did blotter tests so I might do continual drain-refills and another filter change since the new ATF is cleaning the transmission and might overload the filter. WS is not really a stellar fluid and if you are out of warranty I would run Dex6 or Maxlife.
In a previous discussion, it was suggested that older WS turns black easily, while the latest formulation in the last couple of years stays bright red longer.
For what it's worth, I replaced the filter and have gone through 12 quarts of the older packaging with regular 5K 2.2-qt drain and fills, and indeed what I drain is always dark. I'm looking forward to seeing if the newer stuff really does hold its color better.
For what it's worth, I replaced the filter and have gone through 12 quarts of the older packaging with regular 5K 2.2-qt drain and fills, and indeed what I drain is always dark. I'm looking forward to seeing if the newer stuff really does hold its color better.
WS and Maxlife have just about the same viscosity. I also know Maxlife has a good add pack and is a synthetic ATF. I have always used WS in my 06 Lexus LS 430 but will consider using Maxlife in the next ATF drain and fill... These are Aisan trannsmissions and not the human body. I would bet Maxlife will work as well or better then WS.
I am glad to hear that because if I would have drained the dark dark brown opaque, about like guiness beer out and opened up brand new pink WS, I would have been wooried sick. Having switched to Maxlife though I did not have new WS to reference for color. I will definitely speed up my next couple of drain and fill intervals or maybe even to the cooler line flush to get more of the old stuff out. It did not smell burnt though. Not like new fluid but then again I did not have any new WS to compare to. I will tell you this though. If this was a regular transmission with regular Dexron or such, I would be thinking that the transmission would be on it's way out. I am glad I did not wait any longer. The 2006 V6 4runner has 79,200 miles and has only towed a utility trailer a couple of times a year. There is no reason for the fluid to be that dark.
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Originally Posted By: NeilC
For those that run MaxLife, how often do you do drain and fills, which is what I call the 3-4 quart pan drain. Also for those that are doing the cooler "complete drain" how are you doing it and how often are you doing that?
Every 20k for a quick drain and fill. I only recommend the complete drain if your trans fluid is still red and you are not experiencing trans issues. I do mine through the transmission cooler line at the bottom of the radiator. If your trans fluid is black and you are having trans issues, leave it alone and set aside money for upcoming actual repairs.
For those that run MaxLife, how often do you do drain and fills, which is what I call the 3-4 quart pan drain. Also for those that are doing the cooler "complete drain" how are you doing it and how often are you doing that?
Every 20k for a quick drain and fill. I only recommend the complete drain if your trans fluid is still red and you are not experiencing trans issues. I do mine through the transmission cooler line at the bottom of the radiator. If your trans fluid is black and you are having trans issues, leave it alone and set aside money for upcoming actual repairs.
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Originally Posted By: NeilC
I am glad to hear that because if I would have drained the dark dark brown opaque, about like guiness beer out and opened up brand new pink WS, I would have been wooried sick. Having switched to Maxlife though I did not have new WS to reference for color. I will definitely speed up my next couple of drain and fill intervals or maybe even to the cooler line flush to get more of the old stuff out. It did not smell burnt though. Not like new fluid but then again I did not have any new WS to compare to. I will tell you this though. If this was a regular transmission with regular Dexron or such, I would be thinking that the transmission would be on it's way out. I am glad I did not wait any longer. The 2006 V6 4runner has 79,200 miles and has only towed a utility trailer a couple of times a year. There is no reason for the fluid to be that dark.
If it didn't smell burnt, you're good to go.
I am glad to hear that because if I would have drained the dark dark brown opaque, about like guiness beer out and opened up brand new pink WS, I would have been wooried sick. Having switched to Maxlife though I did not have new WS to reference for color. I will definitely speed up my next couple of drain and fill intervals or maybe even to the cooler line flush to get more of the old stuff out. It did not smell burnt though. Not like new fluid but then again I did not have any new WS to compare to. I will tell you this though. If this was a regular transmission with regular Dexron or such, I would be thinking that the transmission would be on it's way out. I am glad I did not wait any longer. The 2006 V6 4runner has 79,200 miles and has only towed a utility trailer a couple of times a year. There is no reason for the fluid to be that dark.
If it didn't smell burnt, you're good to go.
Its normal for the fluid to darken. I have changed mine at 15k miles on the vehicle and it was pretty dark. How is it shifting with the Maxlife? Have you changed your dif fluid?
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It shifts fine. More defined than before but not hard by any means. I was never having any problems before and it seems more like new with the Maxlife. I dont think it was slipping but it was not as crisp.
I had the dealer change the transfer case and diffs at about 65,000 miles because the extended warranty was about to run out and wanted them to go through and fix anything they saw before the warranty ran out. I asked about the trans change and they recommended against it because of the "lifetime" fluid. They said that if I absolutely wanted it changed, to bring it back at 90,000 miles but it would be like $400 and wasn't really necessary.
I had the dealer change the transfer case and diffs at about 65,000 miles because the extended warranty was about to run out and wanted them to go through and fix anything they saw before the warranty ran out. I asked about the trans change and they recommended against it because of the "lifetime" fluid. They said that if I absolutely wanted it changed, to bring it back at 90,000 miles but it would be like $400 and wasn't really necessary.
My take on Toyota calling WS a lifetime fluid is this: if you leave it in there it will certainly be there when the life of the transmission expires.
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