P-47

[JetStar]

One of the WWII aces said that the easiest way to perform evasive maneuvers in a Jug was to un-strap and run around in the cockpit.

Incredibly fast for its size, dive speed that nobody could equal. When you see a Jug sitting next to a Mustang it's a very large fighter. Turbo is located behind the cockpit, and plumed in with very large tubing.
When I was a kid I read all the aviation books in the school library. The P-47 was one of my favorites. Those guys loved the return trip strafing runs. Locomotive busting was one of their favorites.

What's even more incredible is when you see in person how small an ME109 is.

 

[Mystic]

Originally Posted By: wemay
Here i go, top five for me:

P-47
Spitfire
FW-190
Mitsubishi Zero
F4U Corsair



I did some research online and came across some information where experienced pilots had talked about various fighter planes from WWII. The more you find out the more difficult it is to say which fighter plane was the best.

No question about it-it was very important for fighter planes to be able to escort bombers all the way to the target and back and the P-51 was very important. But there were a lot of good and bad points with all of these various fighter planes.

For example, some actual mock dogfights were carried out with Hellcats and Corsairs and the Corsairs were better! Although there is no question what the Hellcats achieved in actual battle. But by the time those battles took place the skill level of Japanese pilots had been greatly reduced. It may not have mattered much if the American pilots had been flying F4Us or F6Fs or whatever. The Hellcats were easier to land on aircraft carriers.

And the German Me109 (which apparently should actually be called the Bf109) was an incredible fighter plane that was built in greater numbers then any other and flew for a very long time (into the 1960s for some countries) and had great firepower. According to some of the information I found online it was very comparable to the P-51. The FW-190 was also very good.

Maybe what was really important was which country was able to produce more quality fighter planes and train more pilots. Because of destruction of factories the Germans were less able to produce as many fighter planes as they needed. The same thing happened with the Japanese. But the Japanese also did not really have a good replacement for the Zero. They had some good fighter planes but they were not able to produce those fighter planes in adequate numbers and they started to run out of very good pilots. The USA had a lot of good pilots and the quality of USA fighter aircraft improved as the war went on. By about 1943 or 1944 the Zero was no longer the awesome aircraft it had been early in the war. And the Japanese started to run out of really good pilots and could not produce even enough Zeros.

 

[andrewg]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
Originally Posted By: wemay
Here i go, top five for me:

P-47
Spitfire
FW-190
Mitsubishi Zero
F4U Corsair



I did some research online and came across some information where experienced pilots had talked about various fighter planes from WWII. The more you find out the more difficult it is to say which fighter plane was the best.

No question about it-it was very important for fighter planes to be able to escort bombers all the way to the target and back and the P-51 was very important. But there were a lot of good and bad points with all of these various fighter planes.

For example, some actual mock dogfights were carried out with Hellcats and Corsairs and the Corsairs were better! Although there is no question what the Hellcats achieved in actual battle. But by the time those battles took place the skill level of Japanese pilots had been greatly reduced. It may not have mattered much if the American pilots had been flying F4Us or F6Fs or whatever. The Hellcats were easier to land on aircraft carriers.

And the German Me109 (which apparently should actually be called the Bf109) was an incredible fighter plane that was built in greater numbers then any other and flew for a very long time (into the 1960s for some countries) and had great firepower. According to some of the information I found online it was very comparable to the P-51. The FW-190 was also very good.

Maybe what was really important was which country was able to produce more quality fighter planes and train more pilots. Because of destruction of factories the Germans were less able to produce as many fighter planes as they needed. The same thing happened with the Japanese. But the Japanese also did not really have a good replacement for the Zero. They had some good fighter planes but they were not able to produce those fighter planes in adequate numbers and they started to run out of very good pilots. The USA had a lot of good pilots and the quality of USA fighter aircraft improved as the war went on. By about 1943 or 1944 the Zero was no longer the awesome aircraft it had been early in the war. And the Japanese started to run out of really good pilots and could not produce even enough Zeros.




Actually, Japan did have a few great replacement aircraft for the Zero.

While the Zero gets all the attention because of it's superiority early in the war....and the great numbers that Japan was able to build of these aircraft...many other worthy fighters existed.

Some of Japan's very best fighters came out late in the war. They were pretty much equal in capability to allied fighters. Sadly, for Japan, these designs came out in too little numbers and too late in the war to have much effect. The U.S. bombing raids saw to that as well.

The following aircraft were outstanding:

Kawasaki Ki-64 "Tony"

Mitsubishi Ki-100

Nakajima Ki-84 Hayate "Frank"

I didn't include the copies of the Me-262 and other oddball anomalies that Japan got from Germany.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
I don't know. That is an interesting question.

The P-51 itself was not that great of an aircraft until they put the British supercharged Merlin engine in the aircraft and redesigned it as a very advanced fighter plane with long range.
The Allison was also supercharged, and in the P 38, turbocharged. Merlin engines did not replace the Allison in the P 38.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: andrewg
Originally Posted By: Mystic
Originally Posted By: wemay
Here i go, top five for me:

P-47
Spitfire
FW-190
Mitsubishi Zero
F4U Corsair



I did some research online and came across some information where experienced pilots had talked about various fighter planes from WWII. The more you find out the more difficult it is to say which fighter plane was the best.

No question about it-it was very important for fighter planes to be able to escort bombers all the way to the target and back and the P-51 was very important. But there were a lot of good and bad points with all of these various fighter planes.

For example, some actual mock dogfights were carried out with Hellcats and Corsairs and the Corsairs were better! Although there is no question what the Hellcats achieved in actual battle. But by the time those battles took place the skill level of Japanese pilots had been greatly reduced. It may not have mattered much if the American pilots had been flying F4Us or F6Fs or whatever. The Hellcats were easier to land on aircraft carriers.

And the German Me109 (which apparently should actually be called the Bf109) was an incredible fighter plane that was built in greater numbers then any other and flew for a very long time (into the 1960s for some countries) and had great firepower. According to some of the information I found online it was very comparable to the P-51. The FW-190 was also very good.

Maybe what was really important was which country was able to produce more quality fighter planes and train more pilots. Because of destruction of factories the Germans were less able to produce as many fighter planes as they needed. The same thing happened with the Japanese. But the Japanese also did not really have a good replacement for the Zero. They had some good fighter planes but they were not able to produce those fighter planes in adequate numbers and they started to run out of very good pilots. The USA had a lot of good pilots and the quality of USA fighter aircraft improved as the war went on. By about 1943 or 1944 the Zero was no longer the awesome aircraft it had been early in the war. And the Japanese started to run out of really good pilots and could not produce even enough Zeros.




Actually, Japan did have a few great replacement aircraft for the Zero.

While the Zero gets all the attention because of it's superiority early in the war....and the great numbers that Japan was able to build of these aircraft...many other worthy fighters existed.

Some of Japan's very best fighters came out late in the war. They were pretty much equal in capability to allied fighters. Sadly, for Japan, these designs came out in too little numbers and too late in the war to have much effect. The U.S. bombing raids saw to that as well.

The following aircraft were outstanding:

Kawasaki Ki-64 "Tony"

Mitsubishi Ki-100

Nakajima Ki-84 Hayate "Frank"

I didn't include the copies of the Me-262 and other oddball anomalies that Japan got from Germany.
"Sadly" for the Japanese... what kind of revisionist history is that?

 

[andrewg]

Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: andrewg
Originally Posted By: Mystic
Originally Posted By: wemay
Here i go, top five for me:

P-47
Spitfire
FW-190
Mitsubishi Zero
F4U Corsair



I did some research online and came across some information where experienced pilots had talked about various fighter planes from WWII. The more you find out the more difficult it is to say which fighter plane was the best.

No question about it-it was very important for fighter planes to be able to escort bombers all the way to the target and back and the P-51 was very important. But there were a lot of good and bad points with all of these various fighter planes.

For example, some actual mock dogfights were carried out with Hellcats and Corsairs and the Corsairs were better! Although there is no question what the Hellcats achieved in actual battle. But by the time those battles took place the skill level of Japanese pilots had been greatly reduced. It may not have mattered much if the American pilots had been flying F4Us or F6Fs or whatever. The Hellcats were easier to land on aircraft carriers.

And the German Me109 (which apparently should actually be called the Bf109) was an incredible fighter plane that was built in greater numbers then any other and flew for a very long time (into the 1960s for some countries) and had great firepower. According to some of the information I found online it was very comparable to the P-51. The FW-190 was also very good.

Maybe what was really important was which country was able to produce more quality fighter planes and train more pilots. Because of destruction of factories the Germans were less able to produce as many fighter planes as they needed. The same thing happened with the Japanese. But the Japanese also did not really have a good replacement for the Zero. They had some good fighter planes but they were not able to produce those fighter planes in adequate numbers and they started to run out of very good pilots. The USA had a lot of good pilots and the quality of USA fighter aircraft improved as the war went on. By about 1943 or 1944 the Zero was no longer the awesome aircraft it had been early in the war. And the Japanese started to run out of really good pilots and could not produce even enough Zeros.




Actually, Japan did have a few great replacement aircraft for the Zero.

While the Zero gets all the attention because of it's superiority early in the war....and the great numbers that Japan was able to build of these aircraft...many other worthy fighters existed.

Some of Japan's very best fighters came out late in the war. They were pretty much equal in capability to allied fighters. Sadly, for Japan, these designs came out in too little numbers and too late in the war to have much effect. The U.S. bombing raids saw to that as well.

The following aircraft were outstanding:

Kawasaki Ki-64 "Tony"

Mitsubishi Ki-100

Nakajima Ki-84 Hayate "Frank"

I didn't include the copies of the Me-262 and other oddball anomalies that Japan got from Germany.
"Sadly" for the Japanese... what kind of revisionist history is that?


I don't quite understand the problem you have with what I said? I certainly didn't "revise" anything in history.
The Japanese would have preferred that the fighters they produced would have been more successful. Hence....they surely saw this failure as "sad".

Some of you people need to get the chip off of your shoulder.

 

[andrewg]

Earlier I posted that the Ki-100 was a Mitsubishi aircraft.

My error...it was a Kawasaki.

 

[Mystic]

Well, it was a good thing for the Allied nations that Japan did not manage to produce those better fighter planes in large numbers. But Japan did have some fighter planes better than the Zero. And they even had a jet powered fighter plane but I think only one flew according to what I was able to find out. It was apparently based on the German jet fighter plane (Japan was allied with Germany in WWII). The German Me-262 I think it was called.

It is interesting that the Germans really feared the P-38 and the Japanese really feared the F4U. Maybe the P-38 would have been very awesome if it have received more development work and it is possible the F4U really was a superior aircraft to the F6F Hellcat. But the F4U was kind of hard to land on aircraft carriers. By that time in the war it probably did not matter much what fighter planes Americans were flying because the Japanese had lost so many skilled pilots.

I was really surprised how many Bf109s and FW190s were built. According to the information online more than 30,000 Bf109s and over 20,000 FW190s were built. Some of those Bf109s were still flying in the late 1960s in the air forces of some countries!

At Wikipedia there is a cool video of a Bf109 taking off, flying, and landing. The aircraft looks awesome-it really does. It looks like a shark in the air.

After everything I have found out I am no longer going to say that the P-51 and the F6F were the best fighter planes in WWII. I think it is more accurate to say that the quality of Allied fighter planes (and other aircraft like bombers) improved as WWII went on and bombing of factories and loss of skilled pilots affected the Japanese and the Germans.

It probably could be argued endlessly which fighter plane in WWII was the best.

But maybe what is most interesting is what the enemies of the USA in WWII thought of American aircraft. They should know-right? And the Germans had high respect for the P-38 and the Japanese had high respect for the F4U. If the P-38 could have had range like the P-51 maybe everybody today would be saying the P-38 was the best. The P-38 did have awesome concentrated firepower.

And the Allison engine was very good. So was the Merlin.