NEW Home CentraL AC quote really Pricey!

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Get some more estimates, 6 k is a little high, should be able to get it done for anywhere between $4,500.00 - $6,000.00 , this is thinking straight cool with electric heat, if there quoting a heat pump, add about $900.00
4 - ton may be about right for her application, depending on where her condo is, bottom floor vs top floor, middle vs end apartment. we size equipment as little as 400 square feet per ton - old home, poor insulation, leaky windows , etc. or as much as 650 square feet per ton, newer home , etc. im sure you got the idea. manual j answers all these sizing questions. We typically put minimum 16.0 seer in, with the f.p.l. rebate , its the best bang for the buck. f.p.l. just reduced there rebates big time, but even after the hugh reduction, 16.0 seer is still the best buy. Is there a crane needed for this job? that adds a couple hundred. There are systems available that are well over $8,000.00, like the new lennox xc 25, awesome equipment - inverter compressor, etc, will run at 100"s of different speeds,in 1/10 increments, all the way down to 35% capacity. For the people that want and can afford the best of the best.
 
Im sure you gentlemen that want to do your own change out have the certificates that say you are certified to purchase freon that you need and that you have the correct pressure hoses and charts to add freon so you do not over charge your unit...you can destroy one fast, did I mention leak testing and compressor oil additives and the tools that go along with that mess...It use to cost about 5 thousand bucks to out fit a van, those days are gone.. do you have your nitrogen tanks so as not to contaminate your brazing of copper lines and filters that you need, it goes on and on guys,,,not to mention special tools and extra sheet metal and duct work....
 
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Units manufactured before the end of last year are grandfathered and if other mfg's did like my employer did there are tons of them out there still available in 13 SEER, if that is your preference.
 
That reminds me of a case in Gulf Shores, Al where a new large 14 story condo building was being built. I was up on the roof and saw that all the a/c units were stacked up there for many months till they were installed.

I realized that the minimum SEER at the time had gone from 10 to 13 and the condo builder had sandbagged the 10 SEER units way before he needed them and he beat the 13 SEER deadline to save money.

Sad for the people buying the condo's as all these years they have been paying 30% more for their a/c bill and more for their heat bill as these were heat pumps.
 
^Yes, though, each successive bump in require SEER seems to bring with it a decline in reliability. Perhaps it is because too many of the components are being sourced to the lowest bidder.

This observation is anecdotal on my part. I am impressed with the continuing increases in energy efficiency, but not what I am seeing as deteriorating durability. Systems made in the 70's and 80's seemed to last 20+ years. I can't say that I've observed that with systems made past the 90's. It could just be that as the rate of new construction increases builders are looking for the cheapest possible systems that meet the SEER requirements.
 
Originally Posted By: callbay
That reminds me of a case in Gulf Shores, Al where a new large 14 story condo building was being built. I was up on the roof and saw that all the a/c units were stacked up there for many months till they were installed.

I realized that the minimum SEER at the time had gone from 10 to 13 and the condo builder had sandbagged the 10 SEER units way before he needed them and he beat the 13 SEER deadline to save money.

Sad for the people buying the condo's as all these years they have been paying 30% more for their a/c bill and more for their heat bill as these were heat pumps.


I have worked on those condo high rises where we replaced 50 at a time and yes, the contractors do stack them on the roofs long before us installers get there and yes they can be there a long time ,,,,its called business,profit,employment,and I got paid for it...and very well too. You can see for miles on those roofs, its hot, really hot, but you gotta love those paychecks.. As for sad for the condo owner, they rent them out at 1500 week, dont cry for them, its a waste of time..
 
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Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Originally Posted By: JHZR2



I agree. There's just not that much extra overhead or training that makes HVAC worth 2-4x more per hour than other trades. I'd argue in fact that if anything, HVAC should be about the same burdened man hour rate as auto repair, since a good auto shop needs lots of training, specialized tools, hazmat fees, refrigeration equipment and epa requirements. If the HVAC compang had given me a price close to what I pay per hour for their install, I might have hired them to do mine. Instead I bought all the tools and made out way ahead.


It's clear that neither of you have ever owned your own business and are clueless to the costs involved. JHZR2, HVAC companies also have specialized tools, lots of training, hazmat fees and EPA requirements. You also didn't need to pay for your labor, medical insurance, 401K benefits, federal taxes, state and local taxes, FICA, Medicare, and social security taxes. You also didn't have to keep a vehicle on the road and stocked with parts, and your time spent ordering and receiving parts and equipment was free. You didn't have to pay an office staff, don't have building overhead to pay for, don't have property taxes to adjust for.

So by doing it yourself you did indeed save some money. However it's clear that the original poster isn't able/willing to do the job himself, and like you is ignorant about how much it takes to run a business.


Absolutely HVAC companies have specialized tools, training, hazmat fees and epa requirements, amongst plenty of others. But again, so does the auto repair shop that works on a vehicle, supports at least two different refrigerant types, possibly soon three, and must maintain EPA regulations while charging a burdened rate of half or less than the HVAC guys are asking for. Thus my comment of if the rates were close to what I pay other trades for the install, Id have done it. My savings, which was significant even after buying all quality, US made specialty tools, was significant, but you're right Im not including my labor (which even at $200/hr still put me ahead). But my point was a comparison with another trade and operating business where the costs are similar and burdened.
 
JHZR2 continues to misunderstand the way prices are determined in our economic system. I suspect this is willful ignorance at this point as he seems to have some sort of axe to grind with regards to HVAC contractors.

I also choose to do my own work around the garage and house pretty regularly in order to save money, learn new things, and have fun. However the fact that doing it myself saves a lot of money does not suggest that the auto mechanics, appliance repairmen, and handymen I'm not employing in these instances are somehow pricing their services inappropriately.

jeff
 
Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
Originally Posted By: Al
Too large a unit in my opinion. Contractors size units so big that the place will be overcooled. This avoids callbacks. Problem is larger units do not dehumitify very well. They also cycle off and on to much and they cost more. 2.5 tons is all lthe larger I would go.

I have half that amount in window units for my 1500 square house and that is enough.


I agree! My house has a furnace that's at least 2 sizes too big.


With the winter we just had, I WISHED mine did!
 
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
The rheem using an all aluminum evap coil? I though they rigorously test them. Could be acid buildup from improper charging? Maybe corsion issues from AL pipe to Cu braze?


My only complaint with Ruud/Rheem is that they're just low-end all around. If noise isn't a concern, they're actually OK and last well enough apart from some known problems with the newer aluminum evap core units as mentioned. But the cabinets, assembly, etc. are all low-cost sorta "contractor grade" and it doesn't make for a quiet unit, indoors or out. The better Trane and Lennox (my preference) units are darn near silent. Even the outdoor units- the Dave Lennox Signature outdoor units could be just about be running your living room and not bother you! But you do pay for it.[/quote]

I think my mother's A/C is a Ruud...the fan outside roars like an airplane, but it's quiet in the house, even at the wall right next to it. (Personally...I do not care if the outside fan is loud.)
 
Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
Im sure you gentlemen that want to do your own change out have the certificates that say you are certified to purchase freon that you need and that you have the correct pressure hoses and charts to add freon so you do not over charge your unit...you can destroy one fast, did I mention leak testing and compressor oil additives and the tools that go along with that mess...It use to cost about 5 thousand bucks to out fit a van, those days are gone.. do you have your nitrogen tanks so as not to contaminate your brazing of copper lines and filters that you need, it goes on and on guys,,,not to mention special tools and extra sheet metal and duct work....


It's HVAC, not a nuclear reactor. I know that as soon as he heard about the new refrigerants, my uncle bought a big tank of refrigerant that week. (I recall his central A/C uses R-22.) Between his own skills (retired truck and trailer mechanic, certified on A/C and Carrier reefers) and his good friend (Thermo King reefer tech), he can handle just about anything up to and including a full system replacement. Between the two of them, they have pretty much any tool you can think of...and last I checked, Home Depot still sells ductwork.
 
Originally Posted By: greenjp
JHZR2 continues to misunderstand the way prices are determined in our economic system. I suspect this is willful ignorance at this point as he seems to have some sort of axe to grind with regards to HVAC contractors.


Actually, he seems to have an excellent grasp of the situation: that being, many HVAC contractors are ripoff artists!
 
My parents paid a little below $5K for a furnace replacement, a high-efficiency Trane XV95. The contractor I went with at the time said it was an additonal $500 or so to add an coil on if they ever wanted to do air conditioning. Only complaint is that the vents get quite noisy when the furnace kicks into second stage and high fan speed. I've gotten quotes for $4000 for a single-stage Trane XC90 and $6000 for a Carrier Infinity 95.
 
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: greenjp
JHZR2 continues to misunderstand the way prices are determined in our economic system. I suspect this is willful ignorance at this point as he seems to have some sort of axe to grind with regards to HVAC contractors.


Actually, he seems to have an excellent grasp of the situation: that being, many HVAC contractors are ripoff artists!


My thought exactly. And greenjp seems to not comprehend the fact that I explicitly have statedm time and time again, that if the burdened man hour rates were anywhere near those of other trades, Id not have an issue.

But when Im told they're charging >$200/hr, when my Mercedes dealership even is FAR less per hour, then that's a pretty big stretch. This isnt terribly difficult to understand - all sorts of tradespeople dont stock every part on their truck, have a fleet of equipment to upkeep, have special training requirements, have EPA or other such requirements to upkeep. There isnt a huge difference.

Originally Posted By: greenjp
Want your AC replaced in the middle of July? Be prepared to pay a lot more than you would in February.


Except that when I specifically asked that question, to multiple vendors, all stated that the pricing was the same on season or off. This was big companies as well as two mom and pop places.

The reality is that more people are afraid of doing HVAC work, and so these HVAC guys can be predatory in their pricing. Its really as simple as that.
 
I agree 10000%

But what else can a person do if its 90 degrees and the A/C is out and they know zero about repairing their A/C. They have no other option than to call a crook.
 
back in 2008 when the big tax credit came out, most of the hvac guys near me RAISED their prices.
I looked into doing it myself, most of the hvac warranty it tied to installation by lic person.
It is a scam to force you to pay more.
 
I've seen a/c units for sale online through ebay and a/c websites. 10 year warranty not valid if not installed by licensed hvac.
 
I know nothing about A/C units.
But my son is a journeyman HVAC installer And he put a Goodman unit in his house and all the relatives and friends homes.He says they are as good as any big name brand at a lot less money.
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: greenjp
JHZR2 continues to misunderstand the way prices are determined in our economic system. I suspect this is willful ignorance at this point as he seems to have some sort of axe to grind with regards to HVAC contractors.


Actually, he seems to have an excellent grasp of the situation: that being, many HVAC contractors are ripoff artists!


My thought exactly. And greenjp seems to not comprehend the fact that I explicitly have statedm time and time again, that if the burdened man hour rates were anywhere near those of other trades, Id not have an issue.

But when Im told they're charging >$200/hr, when my Mercedes dealership even is FAR less per hour, then that's a pretty big stretch. This isnt terribly difficult to understand - all sorts of tradespeople dont stock every part on their truck, have a fleet of equipment to upkeep, have special training requirements, have EPA or other such requirements to upkeep. There isnt a huge difference.


That's more than the trailer mechanic charges my employer...and that is for on-site service with a service truck! (Basically: a $50,000 truck stuffed with probably $50,000+ worth of tools.)
 
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